Star Wars OT & 1997 Special Edition - Various Projects Info (Released) — Page 9

Sounds great!  What kind of bitrates will you be using?  The 5.1 is 448 and the 35mm stereo is 192, but what are the others?

Do you want me to send an AC3 of the mono mix using Dialnorm to bring the average volume to the same level as the others?  Its not a big deal, it would just prevent it sounding much louder than the other mixes when switching audio tracks, in case that is a concern.

How about the video bitrates?  I was playing around with a bitrate calculator yesterday and if I'm not mistaken you could probably use average rates of over 7 mbps for each film, depending on the audio, and peak rates of 8.75 or so, possibly more.  That would make the video very large, so I don't know what that would do to the layer change points.

I'll be glad to see msycamore's subtitles in action.  :)

hairy_hen said:

Do you want me to send an AC3 of the mono mix using Dialnorm to bring the average volume to the same level as the others?  Its not a big deal, it would just prevent it sounding much louder than the other mixes when switching audio tracks, in case that is a concern.

That's a very good idea if you ask me.

hairy_hen said:

I'll be glad to see msycamore's subtitles in action.  :)

As would I!

They look pretty damn good in action, but looks like he may change them a little bit so I am holding off on samples, but I like these a lot.

dark_jedi said:

zombie84 said:

I think its awesome that we've now reached the point where we have most of the original sound mixes (good job on the LD captures). Star Wars DVDs are getting interesting again!

WOW, I did not think you were interested in this project from reading the thread on ED3, or maybe just interested in the different audio mixes only.

Well, mainly for the audio to be honest, but I also appreciate your efforts and realize that the g-force scripts have been (and will continue to be) works-in-progress so I'm always keeping an eye on things. :p You know my only issue is the grain removal/softening processing; it's a big one, but it's only a choice, which means it can be improved or changed in the future.

So what is the method Belbucus used to get around the "time compression" or whatever it is called on sync'ing the LD's to the GOUT? on side 1 of ESB to me it all looks good, but then WHAM! side 2 is all f***ed up, the LD side has 40561 frames and the GOUT 40586, but the audio drifts waaay out by the end of side 2.

what I am doing since the LD is in sides(5 to be exact) I am making the GOUT into sides as well, and then sync'ing each side, then once done put all back together.

So I NEED help with this or the stereo mixes will still be absent on all releases, also by the way, side 2 is the longest of all sides, I am assuming that the other sides will(I hope anyways) be OK.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Tips? Guides?

I don't know exactly how Belbucus did his synch work for the laserdisc soundtracks, but I think he ended up having to make small edits every few minutes to keep it from ending up way out of synch by the end.  Little cuts or repetitions as needed to account for the difference in frame count, and of course the amount of editing needed would be greatest around the side changes.  It sounded like a lot of tiresome, time-consuming work.

I noticed when I was working on the 70mm mix, when splicing in bits of the 35mm version to replace the altered sections of the '93, that the synch was never 100% exact--the 35mm was usually ever so slightly behind, and occasionally ahead, ranging anywhere from 10 to 52 samples.  Obviously this is a miniscule amount and certainly not noticeable (even the biggest difference was only just over a millisecond).  I think that is an impressively small margin of error.  Out of principle, I lined them up exactly at the sample level for my edits whenever I could, but it probably isn't necessary to be so precise.  Still, just getting them close enough not to notice a discrepancy is probably pretty difficult, especially if you're just going by ear and eye.

It isn't critical to include the theatrical stereo mixes for Empire and Jedi if the synch doesn't work, because overall the '93 versions will sound better; it would just be a nice addition.  I might be able to synch them, but it would definitely take me a long time and I'd probably be pretty burned out afterwards.  lol

Moth3r said:

And as for audio synching - Belbucus once mentioned that he synched audio to audio, but apart from that I don't know exactly the process he used.

Guide to quick and dirty audio synching: (there are probably better ways to do it but this method is easy to implement).

Say you have 2 source files, A and B.

A is a capture of the audio and video from your laserdisc
B is the video from the GOUT DVD.

You edit A so that it is exactly the same as B - same total length, scene changes are at the same frame numbers and so on, then you save out the audio. This audio will be an exact sync match for the video from B.

That is actually what I was trying to do, but I am so pissed at this right now I have stopped working on it and did not even work on sides 3-5.

but the GOUT has more frames than the LD capture.

The thing that REALLY sux here is this, we have no real audio alternatives for ESB and ROTJ like ANH, so this would have been cool.

Well I was wrong, side 3 is just as F'd up, I start at the same frame and end at the same frame and this side is out right from the damn start LOL, what a damn joke!

livserge said:

PM me the audio files and I'll try syncing them to the GOUT with Video Redo.  I then could PM you with the synced audio files.  I can do this with the Laserdisc audio.  The Empire soundtrack thingy sounds out of my league!  Anyway, worth a shot and could help with your frustration. 

How exactly can Video Redo accomplish this, how does it work?

The problem is that the audio slowly drifts off(and by the end it is way off), it will start in synch and then gradually go out, are you sure VideoRedo can correct this, if it was just a simple delay for the entire file that is very easy, but not when it drifts.

I am not knocking the help, just did not know for sure if you understood the problem or not, I will definitely keep you in mind if I do not get any where with this soon.

Hi guys,

I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster who finally decided to get in on the action.

I keep seeing references on the pages in this section to the time-compressed CLV LaserDiscs, but have yet to take a look at any of these LDs myself.  All I currently have are the various U.S. letterbox LDs.

Please forgive my ignorance, but is there a pitch change in the audio of these time-compressed discs (like in the speed-up from film to PAL), or was the pitch corrected in the studio?  If so, wouldn't it be relatively easy to stretch the audio mixes from these LDs to sync up to the GOUT video (aside from the extra frames)?

Dark_Jedi's not using the time-compressed LDs, since those would be generally more difficult to work with than the ones that aren't time-compressed.

The non-time-compressed ones alone have enough differences in frame counts compared to the GOUT that some stretching - and possibly some filling-in from the 85 or 93 mixes - may be necessary to create a complete, synchronized track.

adywan said:

If you are having problems syncing audio then use vegas. Import the orignal audio track that is synced to the video track first. Then add side 1 to a new track. zoom in pretty close and line up the new audio track by dragging it  so it is exactly in line with the original one. A good tip is to  disable "quantize to frames"  & "enable snapping" first. If you are working with a multi track file then import all 6 separate tracks first and line them up (with "enable snapping" enabled until you have done this) then select them all and create a new group. Make sure that your centre channel is your first track under your original so this will be easier to line up with the original. this will move all the new track simultaneously when dragging. Now one thing that throws the sync out is the reel changes on the video. They may not be the same. you may be either missing or have an extra few frames unless the original source transfers are from the same master.

Now go to the end of your first LD side and check to see if the wav forms still match that of your original. If they do not then you will have to re-time them. right click on your new audio file and select "properties". In the section marked "time stretch/pitch shift" select the method as classic. Where it says "lock to stretch" make sure this is ticked. Now in the "new length" section just alter the time. you need only do small steps but this is all trial and error. after you have made an adjustment just click on ok and you can see the changes have been made. If they still don't line up just go back into your properties and alter the time until you get it lined up. (if you are using multiple audio tracks just start with the centre channel and once that is synced use the time value in the pitch shift and apply this to each individual track).

Unfortunately i found out with the 5.1 laserdisc audio that you have to alter the timecode and make many cuts to get the audio to sync correctly. it seems to be all over the place from side 2

once you have side 1 synced then do the same for side 2 and so on.

hope this helps

THANK YOU SO MUCH ADY!

Now there is hope, but I have a few questions for you, I have most sides almost perfect, but on 1 for sure,maybe 2, the beginning goes out after I set then end of the file(side) so how do I get around that?

This is what I did, I put the original GOUT audio in track 1, then I imported side 1 for track 2, followed your instructions and all is good, then imported side 2, slid it all the way to where it is just touching side 1 in track 2, then went all the way to the end of side 2 and set timing, went back to start of side 2 and it was off, not by a ton, but there is an echo, so do I just find a happy medium or is there something I can do about that? can the side in question be cut and then re time the start of it so not to mess up the end? or am I way off base?

also once the file is done, how do I save it LOL? I am very new to Vegas, I know almost nothing about this app.