Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 247

Darth Editous said:

 

Bingowings said:

Going by the model details is this another flip shot corrected?
 

Just to reiterate one of my pet peeves, flipped shots are, almost always, flipped for a reason, whether that's continuity of motion or just an aesthetic choice by the director. If you must unflip a shot, please consider trying to unflip the elements of the shot that identify it as a flip, rather than just unflipping the shot whole.

DE

 

While I understand what you are saying (and I take what you say about flipping back only the offending element) flipping something that has an easy to identify shape usually creates more problems than it's worth.

Every flipped face, every flipped R2, every major flipped asymmetrical object sticks out like a sore thumb and takes the viewer out of the moment, especially in the modern age of repeat viewing on DVD etc.

Doing it creates so much visual jarring that anything that was hoped to be gained by doing it in first place is lost.

You can only do that sort of slight of hand for a single viewed film (if the viewer isn't that observant).

Star Wars films demand repeat viewing because there is so much in them to see.

Bingowings said:

My stab at a less obviously green Endor :

 no offense vaderios, but that's the best endor i've seen yet. if we could keep that for the film, that would be cool.

Every flipped face, every flipped R2, every major flipped asymmetrical object sticks out like a sore thumb and takes the viewer out of the moment, especially in the modern age of repeat viewing on DVD etc.

Doing it creates so much visual jarring that anything that was hoped to be gained by doing it in first place is lost.

Darth Editous said:

 

...or Frodo had a restraining bolt on the wrong arm...

You mean wrong finger. ;-)

I've never actually noticed any of the flipped shots before. But if they are flipped, they should be un-flipped.

Looking at all of Vaderios's mockups makes me more excited about ROTJ:R than ESB:R.......

Until we had these mock ups I never really noticed how sparse and uninspired the sets of ROTJ are.  

Matticon.

Matticon said:

Looking at all of Vaderios's mockups makes me more excited about ROTJ:R than ESB:R.......

Until we had these mock ups I never really noticed how sparse and uninspired the sets of ROTJ are.  

Matticon.

While I feel the same and find Vaderios's mockup really great, I think that the austerity of the Emperor's room and the fact that we see the outside battle from very far is a nice way to show that the Emperor is playing with the faith of the galaxy from a place where he thinks he's safe. It is also quite intimist and it serves well the purpose of the scene because we have this very personal fight going on between 3 characters. I'm all for having some nice views of Endor though the wide windows and cool atmospheric lightning effects in some shots, but seeing too much of the space battle would end as the Dooku/Obi/Ani fight in Ep3. Not very OT looking.

In short I'd like the throne room scenes to keep their "intimist" mood.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

darthmunky said:

I've never actually noticed any of the flipped shots before. But if they are flipped, they should be un-flipped.

 I'm actually with DE on this. You can't just go un-flipping shots. *Usually* they are done for the sake of screen direction. If a character starts to look towards screen right you can't then have a shot of him looking at screen left. (unless its done with some sort of story telling purpose...but I can't think of any off the top of my head)  my two cents :D

The term we learned in film school is "crossing the axis," which is when the audience's eyes are moving in one direction, when suddenly they are forced to move in another. It's something that we should try to avoid, which is why sometimes a director will opt to flip a shot even if it means inconsistencies. An error like a strap on the wrong side of a character is a minor nuisance compared to how badly crossing the axis takes the viewer out of the experience.

Darth Editous said:

 

Every flipped face, every flipped R2, every major flipped asymmetrical object sticks out like a sore thumb and takes the viewer out of the moment, especially in the modern age of repeat viewing on DVD etc.

Doing it creates so much visual jarring that anything that was hoped to be gained by doing it in first place is lost.

Maybe it's just me, but those things don't jump out at me. I'm a big Star Wars fan, but I almost pride myself on not actually knowing which way around the tubey thing and the flashy thing go on Artoo's head.

Would you flip this if it was the wrong way around? (e.g. if Sam had the strap over the other shoulder, or Frodo had a restraining bolt on the wrong arm)

DE

 

To be honest I'm not as familiar with Sam and Frodo as I am with Artoo and Carrie Fisher (1975ish until 1982ish).

It's a terrible comment on my social skills that I'm probably more familiar with them than most of my relatives and neighbours.

In my defense they have become major cultural artifacts and have been reproduced in so many different ways that personally I can spot a flipped Artoo in a fraction of a second, just as I could spot a flipped Mona Lisa.

I do however hope I'd notice if even a total stranger flipped into mirror image in the middle of a conversation and would be suitably weirded out by it (but I don't think that's happened yet....?)

George had no idea this would be a problem when he did the first film (he hoped it would be a hit but hardly anyone would have believed how successful it would become) and may have thought he could have got away with it all the way through making the OT because video tape ownership wasn't that common even in 1983 (most videos were rented and only seen a few times). If someone was going to see a film it may be once or twice and most usually (though to my embarrassment I did go to see Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom 17 times on it's first run.... to the point where it became a bit of a joke a the picture palace whenever I would turn up at the ticket office).

By the PT there should have been no excuse for flipping a shot, many of the elements were assembled digitally and if he wanted an element to point in a particular direction he could call upon a library of elements pointing in the direction he wanted without resorting to what was previously a money saving exercise. VHS ownership was pretty much universal and DVD was well on the rise, these things were bound to be noticed and effect the telling of the story.

The sad thing about flipping the Death Star 2 is that the model was so impressive and assembled with such care that it really should have been filmed many times to get a much out of the expense of building it.

Most of the time we see it it's pointing the same way (often it's not the model it's obviously a painting) and it's frequently obscured in thick uninteresting shadow, sometimes flipped and later came the stupid DVD tint.

It's easy to blame it on George's supposed "it'll do" attitude but the technique pops up in ESB too but to be honest it's generally not as noticeable.

Really love the latest SSWR video, great work as always.

I used this image for my Endor mockup:

http://img2.socwall.com/Space/General/200721042138-1955.jpg

which I assume Angel used for this one too:

Bingowings said:

Every flipped face, every flipped R2, every major flipped asymmetrical object sticks out like a sore thumb and takes the viewer out of the moment, especially in the modern age of repeat viewing on DVD etc.

Bingowings said:

You can only do that sort of slight of hand for a single viewed film (if the viewer isn't that observant).

There is always a degree of subjectivity in this.

Personally I'm more taken out of the moment by people and objects lacking obvious symmetry suddenly becoming mirror images of themselves than the direction the shot is pointing (which is important but should be solved in the film making process by filming the elements pointing in the desired direction without flipping).

Here was my earlier (largely failed) attempt at getting a light beam to cut in near the window (hopefully more skilled hands will get the jist and do a better job).

I noticed that Ian's contact lenses often spin (a problem I've had myself with the coloured ones) so maybe that's something that could do with a look at too.

SSWR not SWWR (what a difference a letter makes) :

http://www.youtube.com/user/SSWR1

You mean something like this:



tvtropes doesn't seem to "allow" linking of their images, but you probably still had it in your cache.

David