The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 156

Nope. :)

I haven't seen your edit, so that's not the one. I think it was Slumberland's edit, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, it's good to hear that you cut it too. :)

EDIT: Just watched the clip. It's very good and a massive improvement. But why did you keep the worst line of the entire saga* (IMO) "only a sith deals in absolutes". Apart from being a contradiction in terms, it's untrue in every respect. The sith love gray areas.

(*With the possible exception of "only imperial stormtroopers are this precise". For such a perceptive guy, Obi-Wan sure has some pretty weak insights.)

That line is incorrect on so many levels, because the statement itself IS an absolute. George Lucas must have been hitting the spice pipe pretty hard when he came up with that one...

Jair Crawford said:

I like a lot of the ideas here. But I will say one thing, and that's, imho, the story of the PT does not need to be changed all that drastically. 

The main things that need to be done is, re-editing scenes, cutting some dialogue (like, the balcony scene in EP III *shudders*), cutting Jar-Jar's screentime, re-inserting deleted scenes, stuff like that. lol But taking out the entire Yoda v Dooku duel in EP II and taking out the entire gungan battle in EP I would be too much, imo.

Also, I REALLY like the color edits on here. Just one thing, be very careful that you don't take out ALL the color in the process. Some desaturation is necessary, but people do tend to get carried away sometimes.

This is exciting! :D

I agree with you. I know some people absolutely loath the prequels with a passion and see them only as raw footage that can hopefully be edited into something watchable, but for me, I like them and accept them as being part of the Star Wars canon. I feel like there are a lot of weak spots that need to have the knife taken to them, and I think that The Phantom Edits were a pretty good example of what kind of cuts should be made. I also would like to see Jar Jar and some of the other more annoying characters completely dubbed over, since theyare downright grating to listen to.

Overall though, I think that the films do a good enough job at telling the story before the OT and I would not alter it that drastically aside from dubbing over a few characters and trimming out the fat. Changing Dooku from a Sith to a rogue Jedi is a major retcon I could seem myself toying around with the concept of since it could potentially make the story more interesting, but I would not go much further than that. The prequels are what they are, and just because I dislike some of the choices Lucas has made in his handling of the franchise does not compel me to disown anything he signs off on, which unfortunately seems to be the mindset of a lot of people.

BTW, I know this is the "Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread," but last I checked we didn't have a "Prequel Conservative Redux Ideas Thread," so I take this conversation as being fair game. ;)

theslime said:

EDIT: Just watched the clip. It's very good and a massive improvement. But why did you keep the worst line of the entire saga* (IMO) "only a sith deals in absolutes". Apart from being a contradiction in terms, it's untrue in every respect. The sith love gray areas.

Depends on your perspective, but I didn't see the Sith as "loving grey areas", at least not in my edits (that was more of Dooku or the Separatists).

As for why I kept Obi-Wan's "Absolutes" lines:
- cutting the scene from Anakin's "Then you are my enemy" to Obi-Wan's "I will do what I must" really didn't work for me at all (it just always seemed like there was something missing in between those shots whenever I edited out his "Absolutes" line)

- I felt like by saying that line, Obi-Wan had finally accepted or come to terms with the reality that Anakin was now a true Sith (I never believed until that moment in the film that he really believed that Anakin had gone to the Dark Side.... although maybe it was just a matter of poor writing or acting on Ewan's part, though)

Sith do love gray areas, though. Palpatine was able to lure Anakin to the dark side by first bringing him to a gray area of morality. Claiming that to understand the force you need to understand both the light and dark is about as gray as it gets. The Jedi way is "Light side = good, dark side = bad," whereas Sith claim that morality is relative and that it's up to the individual to determine what is right and wrong. The reason the line is so controversial is because it's the straight up opposite of how the Jedi and Sith actually are, and thus has no place in the story. If anything, it should have been Anakin telling Obi-Wan that "only Jedi deal in absolutes. I'm finally free of their single-minded dogma!"

Timstuff said:

Sith do love gray areas, though. Palpatine was able to lure Anakin to the dark side by first bringing him to a gray area of morality. Claiming that to understand the force you need to understand both the light and dark is about as gray as it gets. The Jedi way is "Light side = good, dark side = bad," whereas Sith claim that morality is relative and that it's up to the individual to determine what is right and wrong. The reason the line is so controversial is because it's the straight up opposite of how the Jedi and Sith actually are, and thus has no place in the story. If anything, it should have been Anakin telling Obi-Wan that "only Jedi deal in absolutes. I'm finally free of their single-minded dogma!"

Again, it's all a matter of perspective - I see Palpatine's words not as a reflection of his views or the Sith's of morality, but rather as a means of decieving Anakin into losing focus of what's right and wrong and luring him over to the Dark Side. It's also a matter of a person's perspective on the Jedi and Sith to the Star Wars series and whether or not those perspectives can be changed: in the original cuts, yes, the Jedi are dogmatic and controlling, but those aspects can also be changed, removed, and altered through editing (making the Jedi, the Separatists, etc., into far more ambiguous or "grayer" organizations)  

But if you're going by the logic that you presented, then Anakin's line of "If you are not with me, then you are my enemy!" should also be removed as well, since that's the opposite of what you view the Sith as believing (since a Sith would not have "dualistic" thinking).

Since we're talking about this scene, in my edit, I plan to remove (already did in the RotS experimental draft cut) the democracy line, "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy" and "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". So Anakin says "Don't make me kill you" (in fact, this line replaces the "you're my enemy line", we see it from another angle), Obi-Wan stands for a few seconds realizing that Anakin he knew is gone, and says "I will do what I must". Looks quite nice.

This is interesting. Of course we would have to find someone to supply Sam Jackson's voice.

I saw on your youtube post that you wanted things to seem like Anakin and Vader were two different people. Is there any idea there you are toying with?

Wow, that was amazing, SSWR. It's a different movie altogether. It's still a bit of a mystery to me why Anakin chooses the dark side, even in this edit. However, in this case it's good mysterious! The removal of some of the lines makes it sound like he's more afraid than insecure, somehow. The context even changes the feel of his lines after the turn (kinda like how Magnoliafan made Natalie Portman a better actress by changing the Trade Federation's motivations to slavery. Suddenly "My people are dying" made sense.). He's been driven into this situation, but he should have known better. He knows that now, but he still doesn't know entirely which side to be on. Very cool indeed.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Thanks for the feedback, mybenja0618 and theslime!

mrbenja0618 said:

This is interesting. Of course we would have to find someone to supply Sam Jackson's voice.

 

I saw on your youtube post that you wanted things to seem like Anakin and Vader were two different people. Is there any idea there you are toying with?

 Yes, we would definantly need some else to do his voice...although I don't think we need to find someone who sounds like sam jackson...my 2 cents...

Yeah, the whole Anakin and Vader are two different people ideas comes from simply watching the saga in order. I believe the surprise (I am your father) should still be in ESB. And I do have a couple of ideas on how to do this...hopefully I'll get around to posting them.

theslime said:

Wow, that was amazing, SSWR. It's a different movie altogether. It's still a bit of a mystery to me why Anakin chooses the dark side, even in this edit. However, in this case it's good mysterious! The removal of some of the lines makes it sound like he's more afraid than insecure, somehow. The context even changes the feel of his lines after the turn (kinda like how Magnoliafan made Natalie Portman a better actress by changing the Trade Federation's motivations to slavery. Suddenly "My people are dying" made sense.). He's been driven into this situation, but he should have known better. He knows that now, but he still doesn't know entirely which side to be on. Very cool indeed.

 Well, the idea is that it's the power of the dark side that ends up hooking Anakin. Yes, I believe that Anakin is concerned for Padmes life and he's not very trusting of the Jedi (specifically Windu in my edit) but once Palps starts talking about the POWER of the dark side...well...that's the hook...at least I think it should be. Kind of like the ring in Lord of the Rings. It's hard to pass up...just like Luke has a hard time passing it up in ROTJ.

Thanks again! :D

Would really love to hear your idea about the whole Anakin/Vader thing. =)

That is a great video SSWR!!

I always felt that the turn on the dark side of Anakin was too quick in the original movie. And in some way you've done it even faster but WAY better.

Impressive.

Two possible things you could play about with here.

One when Palpatine talks about a Sith Lord saving the people he cares about from death the elephant in the room here is that Anakin has probably been told all his life that the Sith only care about themselves.

So perhaps adding a line from Anakin saying something like "Care? Really?" and then onto the saving from death biz.

It would be another selling point to him.

If they can care for other people they can't be that bad right?

Anakin cares so maybe Anakin could become a Sith.

Also if Palpatine is telling the truth here maybe Palpatine has actually already died and was returned from the grave by his caring former master only to be stabbed in the back by him...Turning Palpatine into something more like a vampire, literally a phantom menace.

This could be a better explanation for his secret face (he's a walking corpse and using the Force as a mask).

The light side of the Force brings people back as angelic guiding spirits, the dark side brings people back as physical animated dead flesh thirsty for power.

That's a great idea, Bingowings! I don't really see how we could communicate that concept in the movie with the material there is, but I like that idea.

One possible way of at least demonstrating that his Chancellor face is a mask is by letting it drop sooner.

Maybe have a start to fade out earlier in the Mace fight or when his back is turned to Anakin during the confession scene.

The audience will then not be suddenly confronted with his demonic self when cornered at the window.

Mace could be prompted to ask "What are you?" to the reply "Eternal life, limitless power". 

Or something like that.

vaderios said:

Bingowings said:

Mace could be prompted to ask "What are you?" to the reply "Eternal life, limitless power". 

Holy :O

Awesome!

I love it Bingo! One of the best things i read these years in forum

 

-Angel

 

+1, simple and effective. :)

This thread really brings some serious amazing ideas lately.