What can Be done to save the real original star wars trilogy from 1977-1983? — Page 3

Erikstormtrooper said:

 

For the record, removing the garbage mattes is the only change that I think should be made to the OT for a proper home release. That's it. This is not a slippery slope. I still say it's a result of the movies being brightened for TV viewing.

 You make a good point that a DVD release is not the exact same animal as a theatrical relaease, and by its very nature changes the presentation in some ways.

I personally have no problem with the mattes, and in all honesty if they were removed I probably wouldn't notice much (same with Empy's "slugs" in certain shots of ROTJ, they weren't visisble on the silver screen).

Really, I'd be happy either way

TheBoost said:

Erikstormtrooper said:

 

For the record, removing the garbage mattes is the only change that I think should be made to the OT for a proper home release. That's it. This is not a slippery slope. I still say it's a result of the movies being brightened for TV viewing.

 You make a good point that a DVD release is not the exact same animal as a theatrical relaease, and by its very nature changes the presentation in some ways.

I personally have no problem with the mattes, and in all honesty if they were removed I probably wouldn't notice much (same with Empy's "slugs" in certain shots of ROTJ, they weren't visisble on the silver screen).

Really, I'd be happy either way

http://vimeo.com/6937862

Personally I couldn't give a fuck about garbage mattes or slugs or snails or whatever. They don't bother me. And I don't think they should edited out of the film. They're part of the film. Leave them in.

I agree, with a good transfer (something the movies have never really had) and calibrated display the mattes would not be an issue at all.  One of the things I like about G-force's AviSynth script is that it gives the GOUT a contrast boost--with that applied to the image I can scarcely see any mattes, and it doesn't look so washed out.  With a real transfer I don't think I would find any fault with the image.  I don't mind if someone wants to remove the mattes, but it would be a non-issue if the restoration and transferring had just been done properly to start with.  There was never any need to remove them, but as changes go it is certainly far less egregious than CGI inserts and glaring sound effects alterations.

I think the slugs are getting an unfair treatment.  Slugs are people, too.

-Sluggo

And LFL: Just release the trilogy in it's original form in HD.  Warts and all.  What are you so afraid of?  It might be a surprise to you, but people like Star Wars.  They will buy it.

Sluggo said:

I think the slugs are getting an unfair treatment.  Slugs are people, too.

-Sluggo

 

And LFL: Just release the trilogy in it's original form in HD.  Warts and all.  What are you so afraid of?  It might be a surprise to you, but people like Star Wars.  They will buy it.

Literally the only legitimately good reason I can possibly think of for why LFL wouldn't want to is that they wouldn't just be able to mass-produce the initial blu-ray release as easily if they have more than one disc per movie. With the '04 release, for example, they came up with a very simple system.

Sluggo said:

I've said it before, but it really comes down to which emotion Lucas feels the strongest. His hatred for the earlier 'flawed' films or his desire to make money. 

Once he gets to the point where a high quality remastered set of the trilogy on its original form is the last hope to make money, after he has saturated the market with release after release after release of his 'souped-up' special editions no longer makes money and the public is once again sick of all things star wars (remember 1985, anyone?) then I think he will have to relent and tap the last remaining fanbase who are holding out for bluray or what ever is acceptable at the time.

I don't think that'll happen. By turning the Star Wars franchise into a hit tv show, Lucas has found the way to make it popular indefinitely and make money on it constantly. They'll just keep churning out shows and raking in the cash.

TheBoost said:

skyjedi2005 said:

I still wonder though even if Lucas relented and had someone like Robert Harris restore the oot, would all the hatred leveled at Lucas continue. 

 I don't think you can blame an artist for, 30 years after making a masterpiece, making more work that doesn't necessarily measure up to that masterpeice. If I'm dissapointed in the PT and Indy 4, that's not a personal flaw with Lucas, they're just not as good films.

The only thing I have issue with the man about is his desire to rewrite/erase/destroy film history, as well as the movies that I love and that made him rich and famouse. If tommorrow he said "Restored OUT comes out in November! Sorry about that!" I'd have no beef with him at all.

Anyone who is personally angry at Lucas just because his later film output was dissapointing is a bit odd in my opinion.

Except the prequels weren't simply disappointing and didn't simply not measure up to his previous work. Rather, they go out of their way to crap all over Star Wars. In the prequels, Star Wars is rubbed in the shit. If they were merely disappointing they wouldn't make people angry, but they went way farther than that. Look at the utter destruction of the character of Anakin/Vader for an example of how the prequels work to destroy Star Wars. People have every reason to be angry when that's done to a classic. The prequels are like an act of aggression against Star Wars and an act of aggression against Star wars is an act of aggression against those who love Star Wars. As such, people have every reason to be angry with Lucas over the prequels.

Gaffer Tape said:

captainsolo said:

The truth is it hurts to watch star wars now. I go for classic EU novels when I want a good SW fix. The GOUTs are painful to see-especially those damn garbage mattes!

I can't blame the GOUT for that.  I find the garbage mattes to be just as visible on the '04 sets as well.  In fact, that's when I first noticed them.

And I personally couldn't give a fuck about garbage mattes or garbage cans or whatever. They don't bother me. They're not a problem.

ChainsawAsh said:

The garbage mattes should not be fixed - they were there in 1977, so "fixing" them is just another alteration.  A film is a snapshot of the time in which it was made, and effects flaws are a part of that.  I really wish the Raiders of the Lost Ark DVD had kept the cobra reflection, too.

I seem to be in the minority as far as this idea goes, though.

I agree fully. Changing these things years later is dishonest and ruins the film's function as a record of film in its time.

No need to triple post.  Copy/paste is your friend, and indeed a friend to all of us.

Vaderisnothayden said:

And I personally couldn't give a fuck about garbage mattes or garbage cans or whatever. They're not important.

Never mind, I see you edited your post.  Thanks for clarifying.

ChainsawAsh said:

The garbage mattes should not be fixed - they were there in 1977, so "fixing" them is just another alteration.  A film is a snapshot of the time in which it was made, and effects flaws are a part of that.  I really wish the Raiders of the Lost Ark DVD had kept the cobra reflection, too.

 So I guess the crux of a lot of this discussion is WERE the 'garbage mattes' part of the original Star Wars in '77?

I wouldn't know, growing up with a VHS dubbed copy of Star Wars recorded off TV. Not only did I not see garbage mattes, I didn't know 3PO had a silver leg until the SEs came out on the big screen.

If the mattes were a visible part of the original film, I think they should stay.

If they are a result of careless DVD transfer, then I think there's nothing wrong with doing something about them.

I went to a lecture in the 90s that some ILM guys were speaking at and one of them said the garbage mattes were dependent on the color timing of each particular print, which varied wildly (and got worse as prints aged and faded back in the days of movies playing in theaters for months/years). Which drove Lucas crazy and helped make him yearn for digital projection where the movie would look the same no matter when and where you saw it. You can also see Spielberg on some interview talking about how "on a bad print" the Raiders cobra reflection is really noticeable. I saw a very good print of Raiders recently and yeah it's there if you are looking, but it's not even close to how noticeable it was on the vhs/laserdisc.