Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 187

Well, first of all, whoever said it was lightning? So why should it look like lightning?

Ghost:

I wan't these movies to feel brand new with nice effects not dark and dull visuals.

 

Well these movies are never going to look brand new. Ever. Because they were filmed in the 1970s and early 1980s. And sticking CG shots in that don't match either the film stock or photographic style achieves very little. "Dark and dull visuals" indeed.

I actually prefered the CGI battles in NuGalactica to the ones in the PT, I know it's chalk and cheese but the battles in that television show looked more dangerous and were more uncomfortable because I had a degree of emotional investment in the characters (something I never had in the PT).

If you watch the Death Star run in ANH in a cinema, even now people in the audience are leaning forward and rooting for Luke because they care about the character.

With ROTS there was none of that in any of the cinemas I saw it in the effects looked good but without characters to care about and who might die, fail or get badly injured where's the emotional impact coming from?

That was the main mistake regarding the PT.

The characters we know will survive should have been backed up with characters who's fates weren't set in stone that we actually could give a damn about.

So if they survived or died we felt something.

One of the faults with ROTJ is that other than Wedge and Lando there isn't anyone in the space battle to care about. Wedge could have been built up more in the film as could one or two other pilots (the guys in ANH are all recognisable but the pilots in ROTJ are mostly anonymous).

The pre-briefing and hanger scenes would have been a good way of getting to know in broad strokes a few of the people who would latter fight and possibly die.

That's why I'd also like to do something more with Piett's death because he is the nearest we have to that sort of thing on the other side (Jerjerrod is such a ninny that it's impossible to care about him either way).

Darth Venal said:

Well these movies are never going to look brand new. Ever. Because they were filmed in the 1970s and early 1980s. And sticking CG shots in that don't match either the film stock or photographic style achieves very little. "Dark and dull visuals" indeed.

Hear, hear!

Ghost said:

I'd take a space battle that looks like the ROTS one than the ROTJ one any day.

Seriously?  I thought the ROTS battle looked like an ADD video game with no real focus.  In other words, it looked kinda pretty, but was boring.  The only problem with the ROTJ battle is exactly what Bingowings said - we need to care about more pilots than just Lando and Wedge.  Even though the SW and ESB pilots weren't in the rest of their respective movies, they were given enough attention and screen time that they at least felt like real characters, and you cared when they died.

Aside from Wedge and Lando, I don't think we saw any of the ROTJ pilots in more than one shot each.  This needs to be rectified somehow.

I prefer the original colour of the lightning to the PT one, and I like how much "bigger" it is, rather than thin little arcs, they were think, and damned nasty looking. Obviously it looks outdated, and does need to be redone, but I'd like it do be as close to the original as possible.

Of course, thanks to the PT you get the same problem with Luke's green lightsaber, the surprise is gone. Obviously, it's hard to avoid (unlike the green saber) in the PT, since why the hell wouldn't Palpatine use his most deadly attack in ROTS, but still, the exact moment when Palatine lets loose a load of lightning out of his frigging hands, is one of the best surprises of the OT, for me.

Also, which one is Jerjerrod? Sorry to ask this but I've honestly never heard of him before this topic. I'm not that familiar with EU, and in all my many viewings of ROTJ, I've never noticed him. I assume he was supposed to be more important in earlier drafts, or something?

There is "There's too many of them" guy, "Copy...Gold Leader..." guy, the cool A-Wing pilot (who ends up being Mr Arrrgh), "She's gonna blow" chap and that's about it really. Mr Moustache just blows up.

Moff Jerjerrod is the wet Commander of the second Death Star, he was going to be a major rival for Vader in the earlier draughts but he ended up being a very scared and timid lacky in the final version. No wonder the Empire failed with silly sods like that in charge of major projects.

The storyline is obviously there.  Now ROTJ needs a visual makeover.  You'd be surprised how much better the movie would be with new special effects.

CG ships look good now-a-days.  It would look good and upgrade the movie alot.

If you guys aren't for any change, then why are you here?

We are all for change but only for the better.

Ady is planning a major overhaul of the space battle effects for ROTJ:R, mostly the old fashioned way with models but that's just surface detail.

Without enhancing the story of ROTJ (and the PT) changing the veneer will not hide the fact that the furniture is mostly wobbly and riddled with woodworm.

Replacing the ships with CGI (no matter how good) isn't going to be enough (or in some cases desirable).

So in a sense most of us on here are for changing more than you are proposing.

Ady is planning a major overhaul of the space battle effects for ROTJ:R, mostly the old fashioned way with models but that's just surface detail.

That's good news.

I'm not trying to make the amazing OT the dissapointing PT.  I just think that a beautiful space battle would really upgrade the film.

Would it work if Vader and Sidious had a duel?  That would be a great way to end the saga and it would mirror what happend at the end of ROTS.

Also, is it possible to have Yoda talk to Luke after Yoda dies?  This would go somewhere on the DS.

Should Coruscant or the temple be shown in the OT?

Vader and Sidious seem to be constantly dueling (plotting, counter plotting).

Palpatine with a lightsaber only works if he is hiding the fact he doesn't need one (he's like a shadow version of Yoda, who should hardly ever if ever use a light saber too).

Vader knows he doesn't need one otherwise he would have tried to have kill his master directly years before.

Besides shooting such a sequence would be very,very difficult to do what would it add?

Adding some spiritual advice from Yoda might be doable but once again, what would it add and wouldn't it just weaken Luke if he is getting constant Force tweets from his mentors?

There seems to be some sort of rules by which the Force ghosts can and can not offer assistance eg, "If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere".

I imagine this extends to Yoda who didn't fare well when he last faced the Emperor.

Ghost said:

Should Coruscant or the temple be shown in the OT?

 Once again, I think Ady may have some plans there so you never know...

 Once again, I think Ady may have some plans there so you never know...

Really?  Like What? 

Observe the SE celebration sequence on Coruscant (notice the what the crowd is doing to the Stormtrooper), that's no knees-up it's a riot.

Those are his plans?

That was his observation if you want to know his plans you'd have to ask him but I doubt if he will tell you.

We haven't got ESB:R yet so I doubt if Ady would give full on details about ROTJ:R.

I'm not sure about the Jedi Temple, I'd have thought Palpatine would have pulled it down or turned it into some sort of prison/secret police HQ.

The lit up building in the DVD version looks very wrong.

The Senate building would possibly still be there though as the Imperial Senate was only disbanded in ANH.

What do you think he will do with Coruscant or the Temple?  You would have a better idea than me.

What would he do?

No idea mate.

What would I do?

I'd prefer to see a montage showing the fall of the Empire rather than just a few celebrations on key worlds.

The Empire is meant to be a powerful regime covering most of a galaxy so to end the film with everyone celebrating seems a bit premature.

We saw a montage covering the murder of the Jedi in ROTS, maybe something in that vein would at least give us a bit of a feeling that the Empire didn't just fold over night.

But that's my take not Ady's.

  Set to Phillip Glass? Christ, I think I'd even prefer the Carpenters. (apart from Koyaanisqatsi)

Well not only would it be impossible to have Vader vs. Palpatine, it would be pointless, as well. I mean, really, if they duelled, it would be over within a few seconds. Palpatine doesn't even need a lightsaber (I think ROTS needs plenty of work in this regard), he'd peel Vader apart with ease, just using the Force. As was said, he's the evil counterpart to Yoda, and Yoda would kick Luke and Vader's asses at the same time, without a lightsaber.

Now obviously Vader kills Palpatine, but that's only because he got the drop on him, and Palpatine still managed to get a fatal blow in.

On a different note, I know most people hate the Ewoks, and most reasons for that are obvious, but what sort of things can be done to make them a bit less childish? Obviously, removing their antics is key, and doing things like adding Stormtrooper helmets in their village as in the mockups, to make them seem more like strong warriors, are great, but it doesn't get past the fact that they are cuddly little teddy bears with spears. I assume Adywan will want to Cantinize their faces, but what about changing things like eyes completely? Or changing their voices to be more agressive and threatening? Just small things here and there in their appeances, since they inherently look childish, to try and minimize that.

Before Boba Fett dies wouldn't be nice to see him without his helmet on like this