Blu-ray prices not coming down — Page 3

Jay said:

I feel like some people want something for nothing and won't be happy until Blu-ray players become $99 commoditized Chinese junk and bargain bins are littered with $5 titles.

DVD is still alive and well, so why complain about Blu-ray costing more when it offers more? Isn't that kind of the point?

First, you're probably right about the Chinese players, but so what?  My last DVD player was a cheap $40 cyberhome, but I didn't need anything more.  That didn't mean there weren't other, better players on the market that cost more.  So what if someone wants a cheap Chinese player?

Second, the only additional thing Blu-ray gives the average movie watcher is higher resolution, which they apparently aren't noticing anyway.  So the point, from their perspective, is why should I pay more for it when my DVDs look great on this upscaling DVD player?  Get Blu-ray players down to the price of upscaling DVD players (about $100 I think) and many more people will pick them up since 1) they'll look better than their upscaling players and 2) they'll cost the same amount.

Personally, I would never make such a comparison.  I wouldn't even mind spending $150-$200 on a Blu-ray player.  Unfortunately, I haven't found a decent one yet at that price point.  All the ones I've seen reviews for say they either have slow startup times or they just plain suck.  It's the more expensive ones that don't have a problem starting up in less than 30 seconds (anything that starts up slower than that is not acceptable).

I'd love to adopt Blu-ray, but for now, I've decided to stick with DVD.  If player prices come falling down in time for the holiday season, maybe I'll pick one up.

Well the way i see it is people hate blu ray because they got burned supporting HD-DVD , replaced all their vhs movies with dvd and don't want to buy all those movies again.

There is a certain mentality that once you purchase a movie once you should own it for life and get free upgrades.

Talking of the Chinese; I read today that the pirates over there are now selling "fake" blu-ray discs - these are actually just 720p AVCHD discs on DVD9, in blu-ray style cases.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081117-fake-blu-ray-discs-hatched-in-china-industry-is-concerned.html

Moth3r said:

Talking of the Chinese; I read today that the pirates over there are now selling "fake" blu-ray discs - these are actually just 720p AVCHD discs on DVD9, in blu-ray style cases.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081117-fake-blu-ray-discs-hatched-in-china-industry-is-concerned.html

That article isn't entirely accurate.  AVCHD is just an encoding scheme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD.  A Blu-ray disc can have mpeg2, VC-1, or AVC.  The "problem" with these releases is that they're ripping the movie from the disc and then down resing it to 720p, but that's not related to AVCHD at all (they could easily be doing it with VC-1 as far as I know).

They're obviously fake "Blu-ray" discs, but that's all the article got right.

Jay said:

Didn't you just kind of argue my point? If the "average movie watcher" doesn't perceive that much of a difference, why so much bitching about high prices? Just watch DVDs and be happy. Enough complaining about $300 Blu-ray players like they're some kind of outrageously priced luxury item.

American consumers have such an unbelievable sense of entitlement.

Because it's the latest and greatest thing and they need to "keep up with the Jones'".  They may not perceive a difference, but if everyone's telling them how great it is, then they want to get in on the action.  Unfortunately, they don't want to spend a lot of money to get in on it.  So right now, they're waiting for player prices to fall.

skyjedi2005 said:

Well the way i see it is people hate blu ray because they got burned supporting HD-DVD , replaced all their vhs movies with dvd and don't want to buy all those movies again.

There is a certain mentality that once you purchase a movie once you should own it for life and get free upgrades.

Uh, the "average moviegoer" didn't support either format.  The average viewer was waiting for one format to win "the war" so they could buy into that format.  Now that there is a single format, the "average" viewer is waiting for the price to drop.  They were told that prices were high due to the war and that once there's a single format, everyone will adopt it and the price will fall.  That didn't happen.  It's only just now starting to happen.

I don't know who you talk to that has this mentality of "but it once and get free 'upgrades' for life".  I don't know anyone that thinks that at all.  Everyone I know is ready and willing to buy the better format, we're all just waiting for the player prices to come down a little.  The Digital Bits has some articles about a Magnavox on sale at Walmart for under $200.  It actually has some good reviews too.  Being this close to Black Friday, I'll probably wait just a little bit longer and get a killer deal after next week.

Try 11 going on 12 years ago.

You may have had a DVD player 11 or 12 years ago V, but many of us did not. I switched from VHS to DVD back in 2001 when DVD players started getting really cheap. In 1999 my cousin won a DVD player, he is the first person I knew who owned one. I thought it was cool, but I didn't feel it was worth the money, especially since I already owned a good sized library of VHS tapes. Keep in mind, they were still making VHS tapes up until 2005 or early 2006, I believe. The fact that they were making them that late, meant there was still a profitable market for them. That means there is a whole market of people who were only forced to adopt DVD three years ago. These people certianly have no intention of replacing all their DVDs with Blu-ray when they have only just begun replacing their VHS with DVD at this point. No matter how you spin it, this change came quickly, much quicker than the prvious change, and unlike the vast advantages of switching from VHS to DVD, the advantages of DVD to Blu-ray are minimal for those without HD TVs.

C3PX said:

No matter how you spin it, this change came quickly, much quicker than the prvious change....

Not when you compare it to any other form of entertainment or personal technology.

I don't hear people bitching about how fast pagers went bye bye, or how now every 6 months or so there is brand new cell tech to get used too.

What about personal computing? Still hanging on to that 486?

Please...times are a changing and changing faster all the time. It is to be expected.

C3PX said:

I thought it was cool, but I didn't feel it was worth the money, especially since I already owned a good sized library of VHS tapes.

Know what had me sold?  This was in 1999.  On one of my first DVDs (it might have been my first one), the first thing I did was pause the movie during a scene.  I was treated to a perfectly still, crystal clear image.  Contrast that with the standard VHS "shakey" pause.  I was instantly sold.  After that, scene selection, the extra features, every movie was available in widescreen (only later did I find out that Anamorphic was a different animal).

All of those things had me hooked on DVD from the moment I hit play.  I actually didn't invest heavily into VHS because movies were rarely available in widescreen.

Please... what, V?

Are you serious? Strange you'd make the statement "Not when you compare it to any other form of entertainment or personal technology" then go on to only list personal technologies. What "other form of entertainment" died so quickly? And don't list BETA or Laserdisc, DIVX, or HD-DVD, because they are special cases.

Movie and music collections are not something people generally consider disposable, many people take great pride in their movies collections. People don't aquire such collections with the intent of replacing them a few years later. Pagers and cell phone however, are intended to be disposable. Nobody expects to keep the same pager for years and years to come.  A pager is something that served a specific function and provided a service, a service that was paid for month by month, and when better technology came out providing a more useful function, there was no reason not to change. They are items of practicality, not entertainment. It is practical to change, and cost very little. Most cell phone companies will give you a phone when you sign their contract, either way you still have to pay the monthly fees, so why not switch to a smaller, sleeker, more practical device when given the chance. Replacing a movie collection on the other hand is not a practical thing to do. If somebody wants to upgrade their movie collection for prettier viewing on their big screen HDTV, that is all well and good. But the average viewer and their average sized non HDTV have nothing to gain from the upgrade. There is no reason for anyone to see it as unreasonable for people to not want to adopt. Especially when most of them have only been on the new system for a little over five years.

C3PX said:

Most cell phone companies will give you a phone when you sign their contract, either way you still have to pay the monthly fees, so why not switch to a smaller, sleeker, more practical device when given the chance.

Just so both of you know, cell phones are a horrible example to use.  You get the phone for "free" because the monthly bill is subsidizing the cost of the phone.  That's why there's such a hefty fee to cancel your plan before the contract is up.  You're essentially paying for the phone at that point.

Many companies will give you some kind of discount when upgrading to a new phone, but you likely won't get a "free" phone without switching to a different company altogether.  Until recently, cell phone numbers weren't portable, so switching companies wasn't practical.

That's just my two cents about that example.  Feel free to carry on :)

Well here in the UK Argos now has a bluray player for under £100, so prices are coming down a lot faster than they did when DVD was new

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/catalogId/1500001151/productId/1500317761.htm

There's also the point that some have missed. In  order to fully appreciate the greatness of Blu-ray, you still have to spend shit loads on a HD ready TV. Now that really is the sting in the tail!!

HotRod said:

There's also the point that some have missed. In  order to fully appreciate the greatness of Blu-ray, you still have to spend shit loads on a HD ready TV. Now that really is the sting in the tail!!

 

 

Shitloads?  An HDTV can be had for about $500 now.  Mind you it's only 32", but couple that with a sub $200 Blu-ray player and you're good to go.

HDTVs don't cost nearly as much as they once did.

Maybe, but if your going to buy a new TV, you may as well get one that's bigger and better than what you already have, and also get a full 1080 spec big bastard!! In the UK a 40" Sony Bravia cost around £600 - £700 depending where you go.

Still, £700 for a TV and around £250 say for Blu ray + a few films, you're looking close to a grand. Which for some, including me,  is a little out of the price range. An then there's the subscription fee to the HD service through satellite which is an extra £10 a month I think + the one off charge for the HD box.

I have so many mates with big bloody plasmas or LCD's with no blu-ray and no HD service. I mean what's the point. Everthing they watch looks all pixalated and shit. I'd rather stick with what I have for now.

Besides, I can't really get a flat screen TV just yet, as my kids like to put their sticky fingers all over our current TV. I'm forever cleaning that bloody screen!

Then you'll need to mount it on the wall up where they can't reach it.

Jay said:

I keep reading words like "forced" in regards to consumer adoption of Blu-ray and "replace" in regards to some people's current DVD library. I must have missed something, because I wasn't aware that DVD was a dead format. I also didn't realize that DVDs you've already purchased somehow stopped working now that Blu-ray is here, and that you have to replace your entire library with Blu-ray versions.

I think I was the only one who used the word "forced", and it was in reference to people being forced to switch to DVD when they stopped releasing films on VHS. I agree with you, there is absolutely no reason the average consumer should feel the need to switch to blu-ray, DVD is still alive and hopefully it will be for quite a while yet. My point was the technological change from VHS to DVD was huge and a definite worth while switch, and yet many people still held back on switching up until the point where they had to switch because the old format had finally died, and all new movies had to be purchased on DVD. With Blu-ray, there are less reasons for switching, the advantages are fewer, the cost is higher, and the difference can only be experienced if you own the right equipment.

Ziz said:

Then you'll need to mount it on the wall up where they can't reach it.

Yeah I know, but that'll mean totally rearranging my living room, and with all my wires hidden under the wooden flooring, just not an option. Should of thought about that before I planned. Oh well!! Just have to wait a few more years till they've grown up.

Who knows, by then I'll be able to kit myself out with all the latest gadgets for about £200...ha!!...Then something new will come out I bet!

HotRod said:

Maybe, but if your going to buy a new TV, you may as well get one that's bigger and better than what you already have, and also get a full 1080 spec big bastard!! In the UK a 40" Sony Bravia cost around £600 - £700 depending where you go.

True.  But by that logic, a bigger and better screen with full 1080p resolution will probably be cheaper than what you paid for your current TV.

My wife works with a lady that wants to sell her one year old 32" LCD for $400.  Problem is, I can get a 32" 1080p TV at Costco for $450-$550.  That would probably be better since it's not one year old and it'll come with a warranty.  I don't know how much she paid for it a year ago, but I doubt it was $400 (probably closer to $800).

Besides, I can't really get a flat screen TV just yet, as my kids like to put their sticky fingers all over our current TV. I'm forever cleaning that bloody screen!

Can't you get screen guards for that?  Basically something that's removable that will at least protect the screen from dirt and fingerprints.

Fang Zei said:

On the subject of people getting big-ass lcd's and plasmas with no HD content to play on them, just remember that back in the day unless you had a laserdisc player you weren't taking full advantage of your analog tv's capability, aside from what you got over antenna/cable/satellite of course. DVD finally changed that.

On the subject of blu-ray not being worth the upgrade over standard dvd, this is what comes to mind:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15081975&postcount=3

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15081979&postcount=4

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15081981&postcount=5

The problem? DVD still looks too damn good. I've seen what blu-ray looks like on a huge projector, but watching dvd on a nine-year old player hooked up to a 40 inch bravia is good enough for the time being. I just watched raiders (from the '03 set) last night and it looked fine as long as I wasn't sitting too close. The '04 star wars set looks so clear that it hurts (just reminding everyone why we're here:). Heck, back in '04 my friend's family got a 60 inch lcd and a bose system. DVD's look AMAZING on it! He's got like 600 discs and counting and is therefore in no rush to upgrade.

What I'm noticing about blu-ray is that with these new releases the price is only slightly (if at all) higher than the two-disc dvd, with the single disc dvd being a few dollars cheaper. There's probably a huge demographic of people like me who want their dvd's looking better than hardware they've been using since '99 can provide, and when the time comes to upgrade it'll be worth it to just get a BD player for a few extra bucks. Then all they'll have to do is start buying on the new format for the same price they'd be paying for the two-disc dvd. This is what will allow BD to take off imo.

Those DVD screen caps look like shit compared to the Blu-Ray.....