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Waterworld ABC Cut? A ton of info - see McFly's posts for details (Released) — Page 14

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ziim said:

If anyone is interested... Waterworld SE is on Encore on Demand for Comcast. The runtime is 171 minutes. I have a DVR, any suggestion on getting a high quality recording?


What hell? Who has woken me from my thousand-week slumber?

Wow! Thanks ziim. I've been wasting my attention searching tvguide.com and ending up with Encore's 17 trillion showings of the Theatrical...

All I can suggest, for best quality, is to set the DVR to it's highest quality (1 hour per disc, usually), and rewind OnDemand, a bit, at the disc changes.

ReverendBeastly said:

Holy shit, I wish I was at home where I have Encore OD with Comcast. Someone please help!


I've done one cap, so far. I'm not entirely satisfied with OnDemand's picture quality nor my DVR's, though.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

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It certainly must be better than the copies currently floating around, though. I'd love to see what you got.

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Hey guys, I'm working on some cool menus and Bonus Features for the DVDs. I'd love to see some screencaps of the On-Demand version and I can post some from my captures to determine the best image quality. Since the on-demand version has no commercial breaks, it could at the least fill in the few areas where I had to use the VHS cap to cover up Sci-Fi's commercial fadeouts. I could see the On-Demand cap suffering from MPEG blockies, which my caps lack. The main artifacts in mine are those presented by coaxial cable signal degradation/noise, DV's loss of color information, and Station logos.

In summary, it looks great on any 4:3 SDTV, and not perfect on an HDTV.
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mcfly89 said:

it looks great on any 4:3 SDTV



ooh I's all excited, can't wait to see this thing.
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Jaiman Tuckuh said:

I've done one cap, so far. I'm not entirely satisfied with OnDemand's picture quality nor my DVR's, though.

ReverendBeastly said:

It certainly must be better than the copies currently floating around, though. I'd love to see what you got.


I'll shoot you and McFly a copy. I've been meaning to tell you that. (See avatar).

And, well, yeah, it's certainly better than a vhs cap. But I'd swear it's not as good as what was on the screen.

This first shot is a bad example of the quality, because there's motion blur (better ones at the bottom of post)

DVR here; the original vhs cap below.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/MarinerEncoreODDVR.jpg

Original vhs cap.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/Mariner-EncoreRB.jpg

mcfly89 said:


I'd love to see some screencaps of the On-Demand version and I can post some from my captures to determine the best image quality.


I suspect you'd like a comparison to one of those massive-bug examples. But this'll have to do for now. (Either my DVR decided to give me two bad burns in a row, it's first two bad burns, or the ol' burner has gone bye bye. I suspect the latter).

So how about this placid scene? :) Encore top, and one of your averages below.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/UniversalEEODDVR.jpg

When you A/B is, it looks like Encore squished in a smidgen more of the original width. But dude, that DVR is a lot fuzzier than I'd like. I remember seeing a lot more detail in the On Demand. (Or did I say that already?)

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/400-DVDVSatt.png

mcfly89 said:

I could see the On-Demand cap suffering from MPEG blockies, which my caps lack. The main artifacts in mine are those presented by coaxial cable signal degradation/noise, DV's loss of color information, and Station logos.


There is a little static. I plan to get three copies, but [lots of detailed bitching goes here], blasted machines. What's bizzare is that our OnDemand doesn't have as much static as the normal digital-effing-cable channels that shouldn't have any effing static @#$!!. And it seems to have pretty good detail.

The only weird thing, about On Demand, is that in broad areas of color, I see a faint moire, like those old kinescopes. Obviously, the DVR didn't pickup that particular oddity. (I think I've seen that moire on other OD, too).

I didn't see blockyness. But I haven't stepped through to see if there's momentary blockieness or blockyness (both spellings look wrong, heh) in action, or not.


There's about a month left before it expires. If things go well, I might have a shot a putting together a good capture setup, and grabbing it in Huffyuv. I hope I do, so I can do a solid preservation of this version.

You might not want to wait around, for it. Especially considering it's an iffy proposition.


I'm sure everyone is sick of looking at the same old shots, I'll try to get around to putting more up here.

Looks like mine has more saturation, is a little darker, maybe more contrast. Might be too "punchy", I dunno. I haven't calibrated my displays. Hopefully it can be matched with minor adjustment.

Mine'en
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/CityWallODDVR.jpg

Your'un "The two frames on either side of this cut still show field blending."
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Chroma4.jpg


My Cap. Less detail than your's. Compare the boat's roof.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/OldguyshairODDVR.jpg

Your "Original averaged with Second Capture:"
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/HydroAddict-1and2Averaged.jpg

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

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Well, my version has been done for some time and I'm ready to release it. I really like the quality of your capture, and I think it's ideal for filling in the shots where I used the Encore Extended VHS. I'd like to toss in those shots and burn it off.

One other "would be great" is if there exists a copy of the theatrical (uncut) at better than VHS quality, which is what I've used so far. Most of the added violence I got from a Telemundo capture (apparently Hispanic viewers are less sensitive!) but the nudity, and a few shots like the Deacon offering Enola a smoke came from VHS and it shows. I've considered taking the widescreen DVD and cropping it, but since the VHS is open-matte and has MORE picture, zooming in on the widescreen version leaves out 70% of the original image.

I can't think of a better source than the VHS though, which is ironic considering it's the THEATRICAL cut!
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Something I wanted to point out...

Jaiman, you're kinda bashing your own cap for its perceived lack of detail, but in reality, it has at least as much detail as the average cap, and probably more. When you look at the averagecap, see the black noise on the picture? That's a result of attempts at sharpening a blurry image. Introducing the black noise makes it appear as if the image is actually sharper, when in reality, no new information is actually introduced (obviously, as you can't replace what isn't there). In the image with the universal logo, look at the VHS cap. See how the letter "U" has a fairly pronounced outline? The image has had edge enhancement.

Now, I'm not knocking the job that Mcfly has done. He's done a damn good job at shining a turd. It's not easy, but he's done it. It looks pretty good. I just want you to realize that you've done all right. :)

BTW, you said the running time is 171 minutes. Does that include the credits, or no? I'm wondering because IMDB lists a runtime of 176 minutes for the extended version, but that probably includes the credits.

I've included a couple comparisons below to show the effect that sharpening can have on an image. The first image is your Encore cap, and the second is a sharpened version.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3526/universaleeoddvrab5.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/2439/universaleeoddvrsharpenmu6.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9955/oldguyshairoddvreu3.jpg
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4233/oldguyshairoddvrazq6.jpg

So give yourself some credit. :) BTW, are we going to get a widescreen version of the extended edition? As far as I recall, we've only gotten a fullscreen one, due to the limitations of the sources...or was the old school Encore release widescreen? I can't recall.
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tweaker said:

Something I wanted to point out...

Jaiman, you're kinda bashing your own cap for its perceived lack of detail, but in reality, it has at least as much detail as the average cap, and probably more. When you look at the averagecap, see the black noise on the picture? That's a result of attempts at sharpening a blurry image. Introducing the black noise makes it appear as if the image is actually sharper, when in reality, no new information is actually introduced (obviously, as you can't replace what isn't there). In the image with the universal logo, look at the VHS cap. See how the letter "U" has a fairly pronounced outline? The image has had edge enhancement.

Now, I'm not knocking the job that Mcfly has done. He's done a damn good job at shining a turd. It's not easy, but he's done it. It looks pretty good. I just want you to realize that you've done all right. :)


Well, that's a good point. I should've thought of that.

The edge enhancement really makes a difference in the way the logo looks.

Just venting my dissapointment. On-the-fly hardware compression can't match software. I just didn't expect it to be that much difference. (The OnDemand was a lot clearer). Normal broadcast is snowy enough that it doesn't matter. And it was a frustrating morning overall. :)

As a side note, I realized I had the wrong frame. I'd hoped there was motion blur in my first cap - but no such luck.

A little over-analysis is in order:

Here's a cropped section of McFly's - there is lots of noise, and that could be impersonating detail.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/HydroAddict-1and2Averaged-c.png


Here's a crop of the _correct_ matching frame from my initial capture, on my DVR.
I'm conviced this is softer than the broadcast.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/OldGuy-rightframe-Polaroid-c.png


And this is from a friend's DVR.
At first glance, it looks more detailed. But whether it is or not, there are large scale compression artifacts. (Thick horizontal lines bounded within large rectangles of distortion).
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/OldGuy-rightframe-Panasonic-c.png

It doesn't show up, very well, on the page. But but stepping through them, enlarged, in Irfanview made it obvious. Which kinda tells me I'm worrying too much.

So none are ideal, But I guess that's the breaks.

Overall, the frames, in motion, should be very comparable. No need to obsess over closeup crops.


Unfortunatly, my first cap was trashed. The DVR didn't like the +R's I used. So I'm going to get it again, with discs it likes. That'll have to be late at night, our OnDemand is glitchy during typical viewing hours.

mcfly89 said:

One other "would be great" is if there exists a copy of the theatrical (uncut) at better than VHS quality, which is what I've used so far. Most of the added violence I got from a Telemundo capture (apparently Hispanic viewers are less sensitive!) but the nudity, and a few shots like the Deacon offering Enola a smoke came from VHS and it shows. I've considered taking the widescreen DVD and cropping it, but since the VHS is open-matte and has MORE picture, zooming in on the widescreen version leaves out 70% of the original image.


IMDB only lists widescreen laserdiscs. Of course they may not be thorough. But who among us has a good LD Player, anyway?

I have an suggestion, but you're not going to like it. (Unless you already used a Time Base Corrector, then never mind).

A VCR starts each line, of video, at a slightly random time (relative to when it should start). That means the picture is disjointed about 480 times. Gives it that gauzey effect. It's like a wide group of marchers, with each row out of step (or is that "column" of marchers?).

A TBC collects the lines, and then spits them out all lined up at the edges.

I'll be getting a TBC, as soon as my budget allows, which might be in a couple of weeks. (I found a rare old tape that I'm anxious to capture). So... if you want to wait (and ship me your tape when I order the TBC. I'll ship it back).


A cropped theatrical would be missing original picture, of course. The most important question is - would you be able to see the actors together in the shot? It might be good enough, to get by, in small sections. Too bad we don't have an HD to crop from.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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Jaiman Tuckuh said:

IMDB only lists widescreen laserdiscs. Of course they may not be thorough. But who among us has a good LD Player, anyway?


I've tried, they're all widescreen.

Jaiman Tuckuh said:

I have an suggestion, but you're not going to like it. (Unless you already used a Time Base Corrector, then never mind).


You're right; I don't like it! No, seriously, I can't polish this stuff anymore. If a few shots need to be VHS w/o TBC, so be it... unless that on-demand cap has uncut violence?

Jaiman Tuckuh said:

Too bad we don't have an HD to crop from.


Actually, they released an HD-DVD and I've seen torrents for it. I have no means of playing it, but if anyone does, I'm interested in extracting stills.

I'm tired of the standard Waterworld poster, so I thought there might be a talented graphic designer out there who could whip up a DVD cover and disk labels. I could put the JPEGs into the DVD-ROM folder before I burn the DVD. I was thinking something along the lines of my menu designs, which have a "peering through a telescope" motif. Perhaps you could take the shot of the lookout spotting the smokers with his telescope, and in his telescope reflection you could toss a shot from a deleted scene (I have a few).

Other ideas I had were a collage of Hi-Res stills of The Mariner teaching Enola to swim, since there's some pretty shots in there. Or, a one-shot wraparound of one of the wide shots of the ocean floor with decimated buildings.

I also have a logo for my fake production company that can be added next to the Universal logo.
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Hi, I watched this thread for the past couple months and I thought it was just about time to appear. With some adequate pics I could compose design patterns in order to create a DVD cover. So let me know.
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Freddy said:

Hi, I watched this thread for the past couple months and I thought it was just about time to appear. With some adequate pics I could compose design patterns in order to create a DVD cover. So let me know.


Hello and Welcome, we're glad to have you with us.
I think Jaiman has an HD copy to pull stills from for you.
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The Forehead Slap Heard 'Round the World




Chapter 1. "The Quest"

mcfly89 said:

One other "would be great" is if there exists a copy of the theatrical (uncut) at better than VHS quality, which is what I've used so far. Most of the added violence I got from a Telemundo capture (apparently Hispanic viewers are less sensitive!) but the nudity, and a few shots like the Deacon offering Enola a smoke came from VHS and it shows. I've considered taking the widescreen DVD and cropping it, but since the VHS is open-matte and has MORE picture, zooming in on the widescreen version leaves out 70% of the original image.

I can't think of a better source than the VHS though, which is ironic considering it's the THEATRICAL cut!





Chapter 2. "A Desperate Plan"
Jaiman Tuckuh said:

I have an suggestion, but you're not going to like it. (Unless you already used a Time Base Corrector, then never mind).

A VCR starts each line, of video, at a slightly random time (relative to when it should start). That means the picture is disjointed about 480 times. Gives it that gauzey effect.

A TBC collects the lines, and then spits them out all lined up at the edges.

I'll be getting a TBC, as soon as my budget allows, which might be in a couple of weeks. (I found a rare old tape that I'm anxious to capture). So... if you want to wait (and ship me your tape when I order the TBC. I'll ship it back).





Chapter 3. "Setback"

mcfly89 said:

You're right; I don't like it! No, seriously, I can't polish this stuff anymore. If a few shots need to be VHS w/o TBC, so be it...
unless that on-demand cap has uncut violence?


No, it's still censored. :-C

You'd think they'd have increased the dimensions of their scrotals, over the years.

OTOH, they're probably giving us exactly the same cut. So, I guess that's a good thing.





Chapter 4. "Realization".

ziim said:

If anyone is interested... Waterworld SE is on Encore on Demand for Comcast. The runtime is 171 minutes.


Jaiman Tuckuh said:

Wow! Thanks ziim.

I've been wasting my attention searching tvguide.com and ending up with Encore's 17 trillion showings of the Theatrical...


Oh frak me...








http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/01Peecup.png
Out and right back in.



http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/02Spear1.png



http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/03Spear2.png



http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/04Spear3.png



http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/05Bottom.png
Trying to avoid an NSFW. (Not Safe For Work/Wife)



http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/06Cigarette.png
"I take the name "Smoker" literally. Here, have one. Oh come on. They've been aging for centuries, that's good for them."



Update : I had done 3 staggered caps, of 3 discs each.

I picked out the 3 that overlapped... and the 3rd has a bad spot (those discs the DVR doesn't like). I'll have to replace it on Wednesday.

I assume you don't have Encore, Marty? Can I call you Marty? :-)




Freddy said:

Hi, I watched this thread for the past couple months and I thought it was just about time to appear. With some adequate pics I could compose design patterns in order to create a DVD cover. So let me know.


Cool! PM sent.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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EPIC!

I noticed that most of the stills have no logos, yet some do. This raises an interesting question: is it possible to get a no-logo extended cut? Mine is DV quality, but has logos. How good of a capture can we get from the on-demand? The theatrical on-demand looks much better than the extended on-demand, yes?
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mcfly89 said:

EPIC!

I noticed that most of the stills have no logos, yet some do. This raises an interesting question: is it possible to get a no-logo extended cut? Mine is DV quality, but has logos. How good of a capture can we get from the on-demand? The theatrical on-demand looks much better than the extended on-demand, yes?


Yeah, I was noticing that the Theatrical stills looked better. But that may be from me using VLC for the Extended stills, and PowerDvd for the Theatrical stills. But just as likely that they're compressing the Extended pretty hard.

Actually, the Extended, on OnDemand doesn't have any logos at all.

The Theatrical isn't on OnDemand, it's on the regular Encore channels. So I have to chase it down in the schedule. It might be possible to put together a Theatrical without logos, if they come & go at random.

That's the nice thing about Encore, they Encore the hell out of things, for weeks or months.


About the only way to get a better-looking Extended, would be to capture it to Huffyuv. I am going to try to do that, for myself, at least.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

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Jaiman Tuckuh said:

It might be possible to put together a Theatrical without logos, if they come & go at random.

Failing that, there are some pretty neat AviSynth filters available these days that do quite a good job at logo removal.

One example: see the guide HERE (author's name sounds familiar...)

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I'll post some approximate screen comparisons soon so we can start to get some idea of the quality comparison between mine and Jaiman's. I think his Theatricals look great, but my Sci-Fi captures might win out for the extended.

If Jaiman's extended holds up to mine, we can go for a logo-free version. Logo removal is a great option, since the bulk of the film will be from the Encore Extended (on-demand), with only about two dozen shots from the theatrical.
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Upload problem?

That new uploader installation screwed me up, I think. At least it used to work on IE 6 (Win 98), on that computer.

Old-style upload works ok on another computer, with Firefox.

That's all I got...

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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Really looking forward to this guy's,I have been hearing and reading ALOT about the longer uncensored version of this movie and have NEVER seen it,really looking forward to seeing a nice longer version of this movie.

keep up the great work,looking good.

DJ
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Firstly, Vegas squishes still images to their proper aspect ratio, so they don't match up perfectly... sorry.

Here's a comparison of the two THEATRICAL CUTS:

Jaiman's:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/01Peecup.png

McFly's:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Urination.jpg

Jaiman's:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/02Spear1.png

McFly's:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Spear.jpg

Jaiman's:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/03Spear2.png

McFly's:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Foot.jpg

Jaiman's:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/04Spear3.png

McFly's:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Ouchies.jpg


And the two EXTENDED CUTS:

Jaiman's:
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Waterworld/OldguyshairODDVR.jpg

McFly's:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Hair.jpg

More stills from McFly's EXTENDED CUT:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Store.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/SpyTool.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/DrinkUp.jpg
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Tomato.jpg

and the make or break shot:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Net.jpg
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Hi Guys,
any progress on this?
also needed to give it a bump,we don't want this thread to get buried LOL.

DJ
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Hey, Dark Jedi! Yours was the first Star Wars transfer I watched... really, the first Fan Preservation I ever saw. Good to have you watching our efforts.

Jaiman is going to great lengths to capture Huffyuv versions of Encore's Theatrical and Extended cuts so that we can see what kind of quality we're looking at. Once we know what we're looking at, we'll take it from there.
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You guys definitely have my interest,I was not even aware that there was such a longer version out there.
keep up the GREAT work guys!

DJ
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Thanks for the encouragement, DJ!

I know you're a big fan of unique stuff that doesn't quite get released. I'm looking forward to seeing what McFly does, myself.

You've blazed a lot of trails with your caps and conversions.




Here's a couple of Huffy comparisons to tease you.

I resized these to be similar to your's, McFly, although I didn't have time to match the exact aspect ratio. And I didn't take the time set white & black points.

I'll leave it up to you to put them under the magnifying glass. But I think they're pretty similar to your averaged captures, at first glance.

Jaiman's Huffyuv
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Wworld%20Huffy/Hair-Huffy01.png

Mc Fly's
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Hair.jpg


Jaiman's Huffyuv
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Wworld%20Huffy/Store-Huffy01.png


McFly's
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Store.jpg


Jaiman's Huffyuv
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o57/JimTuckuh/Wworld%20Huffy/SpyToolHuffy01.png

McFly's
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/SpyTool.jpg

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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Hi mcFly, it seems that you have been working on this project for about 2 years now.
It appears you can't seem to quit adding new versions ;)

When are you going to release the DVD's? I'd love to get one.

Thx,
Crocky