logo Sign In

***//BUILDING EMPIRE\\: PAL & NTSC DVD - NEW EDITION NOW ONLINE! *** — Page 35

Author
Time
Post link
I had tried a straight 25 to 23.976 convert and it was off. When I did it for the AVI HuffYUV file, it did work exactly. For some reason, it didn't when I discarded that and used TMPGenc.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Ripplin
Would Darth Editous be a good guy to ask about PAL to NTSC conversion? Just sayin'.

Might be a good idea yes. Ask Editous and others who have converted formats how they've done it.
Author
Time
Post link
Isn't there already a thread about this in General Preservation? If not, there needs to be.
Author
Time
Post link
Is he doing the sound conversion? I was able to easily do it where I didn't have to alter the sound. Took a little over an hour and it looked good. It's trickier doing it with the sound conversion. I researched it as much as I could, and nearly everything I found recommended what I had done without altering the sound, or doing AVISYNTH scripts. Other methods caused a stutter which was unacceptable. Or there were methods that tricked players by the use of flags. I'm sure I've seen threads with guides in the past, but I couldn't find any that did what I wanted.
Author
Time
Post link
Hello... Ripplin asked me in to see if I could offer any advice.

It's a PAL to NTSC conversion, right? Is the PAL video interlaced, progressive, or a mix of both? Anything in there that's already been converted from NTSC (either progressive or interlaced)? Just need a bit of info before I offer a suggestion

DE
Author
Time
Post link
It's pretty much done, but if there's a better way, I'm all ears. I want it as good as I can get since the wait has been longer than I expected.

It's PAL 25i. Multiple sources so I'm not sure what was originally NTSC. I wanted to simply convert to 23.976p with the sound stretched to correct the PAL pitch and tempo to NTSC. If possible, I wanted to remain in MPG2 and keep it progressive (I've used DGPulldown to set flags to make the player do the 2:3 pulldown).

Here's where I'm at:

The original video is at about 3.5 kbits/sec and sound is AC3 192 kbps. I used TMPGenc 2.5 to deinterlace the 25fps to about double the original bitrate, then ran it through again to convert to 23.976fps and back to 3.5 kbits/s. I then used DGPulldown to flag it so that players will see it as 29.97i. For some reason, TMPGenc seemed to have rounded it up to 23.98 so the soundtrack I'd converted on an earlier attempt using VirtualDub (HuffYUV) didn't work anymore. Converting the soundtrack from 25fps to 23.976fps caused synch to drift. It was like it was too long. I had decompressed the AC3 to wav and used GoldWave to stretch it to the exact length of the movie, which caused the same issue. I then tested a demuxed copy of the original PAL version and noticed that the soundtrack didn't quite line up with the video in the first place, even though the synch stayed perfect. I then went back to my NTSC version and stretched the wav to the same length as the video, minus a few seconds, which seemed to help. I have about 4 or 5 test scenes (beginning, pre-middle, middle, post-middle, and end) marked in Womble that I use to check synch, so when I finish a new wav I plug it into the timeline and test it. I got it to within a few frames (I wish Womble had a visual wav line so I could see peaks rather than listen for them) and then would tweak it a few thousandths at a time to get it closer and closer.

The rest of the DVD material, I just used either Procoder or NeroRecode, which both give smooth non-jerky playback while allowing use of the original sound. I didn't want to alter Jambe's work in the extras at all. I only wanted to convert the main film with sound to NTSC speed and pitch. Only real issue is that a couple scenes of commentary were not sped up on the original PAL, so the Empire Strikes Back sound is good, but then a couple times a slowed down Mark Hamill or Carrie Fischer will make a comment. It's an unfortunate compromise. When I get the entire thing encoded, I'll check out both versions and see which is better: Chipmunk movie or normal movie with the occasional s-l-o-w-e-d down comment.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. If there's a more efficient way, I'd genuinely like to know. I couldn't find any guides online that did what I wanted it to do. Most used methods that jerked, or didn't alter the sound.
Author
Time
Post link
I know this is late in the day, but I'm sure JD would appreciate it if PAL/NTSC conversion methods could be discussed in a new technical discussion forum thread.

Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here

Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Moth3r
I know this is late in the day, but I'm sure JD would appreciate it if PAL/NTSC conversion methods could be discussed in a new technical discussion forum thread.


Agreed. I'm very glad you are doign the NTSC conversion but it is kinda taking over this thread.

Creator of Star Wars Begins, Building Empire and Returning to Jedi
Follow me on twitter @jamieSWB. Please support me at - http://www.patreon.com/jamiebenning/

Author
Time
Post link
I love you MoveAlong... in a very masculine, macho way... but I still love you. Been wanting to get my hands on this doco for some time.

Thanks

Yancy
Author
Time
Post link
awesome work Jambe! very big kudos from Canada!

Very professional looking.

thank you for such tasty candy ! You are a Yoda among men.


ps: if u can get a msg to boon23 that uploaded your building empire to rapidshare, here's the page:
http://www.faneditforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=313&highlight=building+empire

its missing the dvd-rom extras, i see mention of them in the dvd's extras menu but nothing in the rar files. i have all 37 rars and extract out to 3.93gb

pps: for PAL to NTSC i did a 5 minute hack with ifoedit, didn't have to transcode from pal to ntsc. just edited the .ifo files to make it play as NTSC and it works fine on my LG LDA-530 with a memorex dvd+rw
more info here: http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=221928
thanks,
HT
Author
Time
Post link
That IFO edit doesn't alter the sound which was the reason behind this delay. Plus, I wanted to ensure compatibility with the largest number of players. I'm not sure if that will work in everyone's player.
Author
Time
Post link
Again, thanks MoveAlong, just finished downloading your files... can't wait to watch this, especially after watching "Returning to Jedi"

Yancy
Author
Time
Post link
Cal, so the conversion is almost completed?

Cal, here's a link courtesy of boon23 from the RtJ thread:
http://www.eggshellskull.com/pal2ntsc/
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: caligulathegod
That IFO edit doesn't alter the sound which was the reason behind this delay. Plus, I wanted to ensure compatibility with the largest number of players. I'm not sure if that will work in everyone's player.


Well it doesnt change the video speed either, 25fps so the sound is in sync.

My player's problem is that it doesnt read well the PAL disc info, but it can read any speeds, 23,997 25, 29 fps etc , and interlaced.
But its just the headers that trips it up. AN LG LDA-530.

So, i used the ifo editor and i did get watch the dvd, no sound troubles.

Thanks to JD for making these.

thanks,
HT
Author
Time
Post link
so, is anybody NOW really doing a conversion to NTSC? If not, I will do this over the weekend. Still I would enjoy some more input first if you guys were satisfied with the RTJ conversion.
And if someone else is doing it or has already done it, just tell me how to get it, so it cna be torrented and uplaoded for the masses (and be less attractive on ebay).

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

Author
Time
Post link
hi boon,

i think you have a typo in your sig text, "Please contact em via email".

is that forever or just until u get 10 seeders for the torrents?
thanks,
HT
Author
Time
Post link
I cannot seed anything forever. But as long as it takes to have it spread to the community. This is all our responsibility to keep these things seeded.

Nothing about fanediting is easy.

Author
Time
Post link
I'm back to work on it. I'd taken some time off because it was driving me nuts. I was waiting on Dig's conversion to see if it was better that what I've got.

I have had no problem with a straight conversion. Procoder did it very well. My issue is that we WANTED to change the frame rate and sound, not just make it play PAL frame rate and speed on NTSC sets. I'm watching it again and the PAL speedup drives me nuts, as it does others. It took me about a day to completely reauthor the DVD from scratch. I took on the challenge of converting the sound, too, and that's been the issue. None of those links really mention how to do it. They are all methods for just getting the NTSC to accept PAL. After I started, I just didn't want to accept failure. I got a nice frame rate conversion, finally, but then the synch would drift. A simple convert of the sound to the 24.976 speed just doesn't work, either.

Anyway, I'm rendering now. If this doesn't work, then I'm going back to my regular speed version just so it will get out there. We'll know soon.
Author
Time
Post link
what happens if you just change the time of the wave to the exact length of the movie in your NTSC version? Goldwave and Adobe Audition offer this option and from when I used it it works pretty well.

Nothing about fanediting is easy.