logo Sign In

Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound? — Page 7

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Moth3r
Have you synched Empire and Jedi so that no padding is required at the beginning this time?


I synched up the new dolby stereo mix to the video and I had to add a 1 second delay to it just as I had to do with the definitive collection pcm audio. Thanks to the hard work of Belbucus and others, I hope to have the definitive collection audio, 35mm audio, the 1985 remix, the mono mix and the definitive collection commentary track audio (taken from the Gonzo set with a 1.5 second delay added) all synced up to the anamorphic video I've encoded. This will give me my own "ultimate edition" of Star Wars.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Marvolo
Originally posted by: boba feta
Reupped part 3 and reposting old links for the NTSC '93 mix.

Part 1.

Part 2.

Part 3.

Part 4.

Cheers


Is this for A New Hope?


Pretty sure it is.
Author
Time
Post link
Thanks boba feta for reuploading the '93 NTSC ANH mix.

Looking forward to downloading the Empire and Jedi mixes as well as the '85 remix, 35mm stereo and of course the '77 mono. Hopefully, you and other kind souls will provide them through file upload services for those of us unable to use the newsgroups.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

Author
Time
Post link
THE MOTH3R Q&A 5-PACK!

Have you synched Empire and Jedi so that no padding is required at the beginning this time?

With Empire, I started where the noise floor began in the waveform (which happened to be roughly a second before the Fox logo cue), thinking that this might be related to the offset required. This did not hold true for Jedi, where there were only a few milliseconds of noise floor at the head. My guess is that they will both need to be adjusted.



On Empire, you say that sonically it is superior to the GOUT audio. Is the sub-standard GOUT audio due to a difference in the transfer or mix, or just the effects of compression to 192kbps AC-3?

Perhaps both. The PCM of Empire is audibly and visibly more dynamic. I also came across at least one example where the actual timbre was different.



FYI, Dolby Digital soundtracks are mastered so that the "normal" listening level of dialogue (where people are speaking in a normal voice) is at -31 dB.


I’ve never heard a db figure associated with this, I’d be curious as to the source. If it’s a Dolby standard, then it’s likely referenced to 0 db = 85dbc in a properly calibrated theater (or home theater). Dialogue level is a great absolute in setting playback level. I heard it referred to once as “associated level”. While nobody really knows how loud an exploding sail barge is, everybody has very much the same notion as to where a comfortable dialogue level should sit, because it’s something everybody can “associate” with.



Belbucus - just thought of another question: you said previously you expected the '85 mix would have more dynamic range than the '77 mix. Is this the case?


I don’t remember making the statement but that’s nothing new. If I did, I would have been wrong. From a glance at the waveform it appears to be the least dynamic of all – including the mono mix. Maybe the thinking at the time was to optimize it for the “pre-home theater” / lower-volume crowd – who knows?



And I presume it's not as dynamic as the 70mm-derived '93 mix?


(See above)


Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Belbucus
With Empire, I started where the noise floor began in the waveform (which happened to be roughly a second before the Fox logo cue), thinking that this might be related to the offset required. This did not hold true for Jedi, where there were only a few milliseconds of noise floor at the head. My guess is that they will both need to be adjusted. If you were to receive a WAV file containing the first few seconds of the DVD audio with the correct delay, would you be able to tell us the exact figure to apply? Estimates on the previous file ranged from 1.000s to 1.020s. (Although, TBH I don't think a difference of 20ms is noticeable.)

Originally posted by: Belbucus
Perhaps both. The PCM of Empire is audibly and visibly more dynamic. I also came across at least one example where the actual timbre was different. That's strange, since both tracks are from the same source. So in theory, an AC-3 track properly encoded from your PCM audio could sound better than the actual DVD!
Originally posted by: Belbucus
I’ve never heard a db figure associated with this, I’d be curious as to the source. If it’s a Dolby standard, then it’s likely referenced to 0 db = 85dbc in a properly calibrated theater (or home theater). Dialogue level is a great absolute in setting playback level. I heard it referred to once as “associated level”. While nobody really knows how loud an exploding sail barge is, everybody has very much the same notion as to where a comfortable dialogue level should sit, because it’s something everybody can “associate” with.
This comes from the guides on Dolby's website, but a summary of the procedures can be found on the Doom9 forums.
Originally posted by: Belbucus
I don’t remember making the statement but that’s nothing new. If I did, I would have been wrong. From a glance at the waveform it appears to be the least dynamic of all – including the mono mix. Maybe the thinking at the time was to optimize it for the “pre-home theater” / lower-volume crowd – who knows?
My bad with the dynamic range comment. What you actually said was that you expected the '85 mix to have a wider stereo image and more low frequency content. Does this ring true?

Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here

Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here

Author
Time
Post link
IN RESPONSE TO MOTH3R'S LAST:

If you were to receive a WAV file containing the first few seconds of the DVD audio with the correct delay, would you be able to tell us the exact figure to apply?

I can’t see why not – excellent idea! Would likely need to repeat the exercise with ESB and ROTJ as well.



That's strange, since both tracks are from the same source. So in theory, an AC-3 track properly encoded from your PCM audio could sound better than the actual DVD!


“Properly encoded” is the key phrase here, I think. Then yes.



My bad with the dynamic range comment. What you actually said was that you expected the '85 mix to have a wider stereo image and more low frequency content. Does this ring true?


If the 70mm 6-track/’93 mix and the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix were both sourced from the same 4-track master, then it’s clear that left and right channels were panned in about 40% in the case of the latter. Put another way, the left/right elements are noticeably wider in the 70mm/’93 mix than in the 35mm Dolby Stereo.

I HAVE noticed that the ’85 remix has a wider soundstage than the 35mm Dolby Stereo. I have yet to compare it with the ’93 mix to see if they match with regard to stereo imaging. Again, the comment regarding low frequency content escapes me. I’ve always thought of the ’85 as being much closer to the Dolby Stereo in overall spectrum. I will have an opportunity to compare all of this soon when I start synching the ’85 to the GOUT.
Author
Time
Post link
Darth Mallwalker provided me with some Filefactory links for 'Belbucus' '77 Dolby Stereo synced to GOUT' for those of us without newsgroup access. There are 3 RAR files that contain a single WAV file (the 3 RAR files being part of a series).

Here are the links:
DS48_DVD.part1.rar
DS48_DVD.part2.rar
DS48_DVD.part3.rar

I've downloaded it and am very grateful. It's nice to see my Star Wars audio mix collection grow. Thank you Belbucus for synching all these various tracks to the GOUT, and to Mallwalker and boba feta for uploading/providing links.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

Author
Time
Post link
^ Use that if you're making a DVD with only one audio track on it.

However if you're gonna make a disc with many soundtracks (mono, '93, '85, etc) then you might better wait for the "lowered level" Dolby Stereo file.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

Author
Time
Post link
I don't recall if it was posted before - but the for those interested, the delay offset for this should be identical to that used for the previous DC '93 file (around 1.02 seconds).
Author
Time
Post link
Belbucus: Have you thought about doing the pre 1993 mixes of Empire and Jedi? They're probably not that different, but still interesting for completists.
Thanks again for the two mixes already available and for the others yet to be distributed.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

Author
Time
Post link
I had not considered it for the reason you mentioned - that is, to my knowledge there are no significant differences to be had. Content is virtually the same, yes? The overall EQ maybe slightly different, but as I recall, the LT/RT versions of both of these were quite robust sounding and are probably very similar overall to the '93 mixes.
Author
Time
Post link
LT/RT ? Where's that acronym buster when you need it ?



Meanwhile ... back at the ranch (no, not that ranch) ... back at your favorite news group a.b.starwars

Subject: Belbucus' ESB PCM synced to GOUT

Archive: ESB '93 DVD.zip
Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name
-------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ----
1438313896 Defl:N 1241170922 14% 10-15-06 06:48 bc6c0f6d ESB '93 DVD.wav



Subject: Belbucus' ROTJ PCM synced to GOUT

Archive: ROTJ '93 DVD.zip
Length Method Size Ratio Date Time CRC-32 Name
-------- ------ ------- ----- ---- ---- ------ ----
1517158176 Defl:N 1286355894 15% 10-15-06 08:50 d1c4c296 ROTJ '93 DVD.wav

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

Author
Time
Post link
Sorry, Left total/Right total (AKA matrixed stereo / "Dolby Stereo"/ "Dolby Surround"/ "Pro Logic").
Author
Time
Post link
I realized in reading what I wrote previously, that I might not have been entirely clear. Actually, all video sountracks prior to the SE are in fact LT/RTs. My original reference was to the theatrical LT/RT versions as they compared to the '93 versions.
Author
Time
Post link
Belbucus, sorry if I missed it, but what's the origin of the '77 mix?

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

Author
Time
Post link
Do the Empire and Jedi wavs have the built in delay or do we have to add that ourselves?

Can't wait to get home from work to give these puppies a try.
Author
Time
Post link
Moth3r has sent me samples of the first 5 seconds of both the ANH and ESB GOUT AC3 tracks to determine the exact offset. Although not confirmed yet, the offset delays I came up with are +1.017 seconds for ANH, and + .948 seconds for ESB. He has not sent me anything for Jedi yet.

Again, the delay of 1.017 seconds can be applied to the 35mm Dolby Stereo and any of the forthcoming soundtrack releases for ANH as well.

If anyone is having trouble adding the delay, I could reissue these with it built in. It would however, require everything to be reposted.
Author
Time
Post link
Belbucus: Ok, so if a 1.017 second delay is applied to the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack from A New Hope to the video from the 2006 DVD release of A New Hope, then that will perfectly synch the PCM soundtrack to the video, exactly the same as the official DD 2.0 track is now; and the same goes for the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack from The Empire Strikes Back to the video from the 2006 DVD release of The Empire Strikes Back, except a .948 second delay is used in this case, correct?

Also, these GOUT sound samples that Moth3r sent you, are they from the NTSC Region 1 version of the 2006 Star Wars DVD set?

Yeah, if we could get the PCM soundtrack files with the exact correct audio delay for the video of each movie of the trilogy from the GOUT 2006 Star Wars DVD set already built into the soundtrack files and have them posted in that form to filefactory, that would be great!

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

Author
Time
Post link
belbucus, I think it might be good to build in the delay, as it would make it a lot easier for more people to use the files. And since they haven't gone out to that many people yet...

BTW, if anyone without newsgroups wants hard copies of all the belbucus synced mixes, I'll start a PIF chain. PM me.
Author
Time
Post link
In response to DuneDain:

Belbucus: Ok, so if a 1.017 second delay is applied to the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack from A New Hope to the video from the 2006 DVD release of A New Hope, then that will perfectly synch the PCM soundtrack to the video, exactly the same as the official DD 2.0 track is now; and the same goes for the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM soundtrack from The Empire Strikes Back to the video from the 2006 DVD release of The Empire Strikes Back, except a .948 second delay is used in this case, correct?
Correct. As I said, no one has actually plugged these in yet to verify it, but they should be right


Also, these GOUT sound samples that Moth3r sent you, are they from the NTSC Region 1 version of the 2006 Star Wars DVD set?

NTSC, yes.


Yeah, if we could get the PCM soundtrack files with the exact correct audio delay for the video of each movie of the trilogy from the GOUT 2006 Star Wars DVD set already built into the soundtrack files and have them posted in that form to filefactory, that would be great!

It's not much work on my end, it's just that Mallwalker and whomever else would have to repost everything. If they are willing, I'd be happy to.
Author
Time
Post link
The delay thing doesn't bother me so much. I mean, can't I open the wav files I have and add the delay myself? I guess I just don't want to have to download the 1977 stereo and the 1993 Defcol mixes again. I haven't got ESB or ROTJ yet.

But then I suppose it doesn't matter. If it helps other people then that's good.
Any suggestions on which program to use to simply add 1.017 seconds of silence at the start of the ANH mixes?

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

Author
Time
Post link
Audition, SoundForge, Cooledit, Nero Wave Editor...

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Belbucus
Moth3r has sent me samples of the first 5 seconds of both the ANH and ESB GOUT AC3 tracks to determine the exact offset. Although not confirmed yet, the offset delays I came up with are +1.017 seconds for ANH, and + .948 seconds for ESB. He has not sent me anything for Jedi yet.

Again, the delay of 1.017 seconds can be applied to the 35mm Dolby Stereo and any of the forthcoming soundtrack releases for ANH as well.

If anyone is having trouble adding the delay, I could reissue these with it built in. It would however, require everything to be reposted.



My best estimate so far--
SW: +1.018 s
ESB: + 0.992 s
RotJ: TBD (tomorrow night)
Author
Time
Post link
That ESB delay looks a bit suspect. The difference between 0.992 and 0.948 is 44ms, that's just over a frame, which might be noticeable to some people.

I'll take a look this evening.

Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here

Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here