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I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.
Info: Auto-correction from SE colours to GOUT colours (lots of information) — Page 2
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Originally posted by: LasermanI've been writing up the process and sent a draft of it to Zion a couple of weeks ago for him to turn into one of his slick looking webdocs for the X0 site...
Damn, I knew Zion was slacking off again....wink wink
And shoot me for going off topic here but....I would like to offer a little encouragement to the X0 team by saying,
I swear that happy monkeys would fly out my butt if I could watch the X0T on my 56" Hitachi during Christmas break.....come on guys you can do it....
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Originally posted by: THX
Impressive... most impressive. Presumably with this system you could incorporate PAL and NTSC captures?
Impressive... most impressive. Presumably with this system you could incorporate PAL and NTSC captures?
Yes, but of course the different framing causes issues. I don't want to hijaak this thread, so I will try to keep comments useful to this type of process.
With the PAL discs the framing is a little tighter (i.e. there are bits 'missing' from the extreme edges comapred to the NTSC discs) which leaves you with two choices.
1. Crop the frames to match the PAL versions
2. Use a soft rolloff matte (basically a 20px or so gradient) on all four sides to allow the resultant image to blend into the NTSC image to restore the edges.
I've tried both and sometimes option 2 works perfectly, other times it doesn't, if I was smarter option 2 would work more often I suspect.
And vbangle, to be fair, my drafts are *awful* and poor Zion and others have to spend a lot of time turning them into the professional looking articles that he produces.
My mum use to say 'you can't polish a turd', but Zion often surprises me!
Rune, I'd love to see your files and find out if you can feed the tracker to whatever the morpher/warper is in fusion to get better internal mapping between the two streams.
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Originally posted by: superrune
I thought it might be interesting to apply the GOUT colours to the new SE edition image. In other words, keep the excellent edge sharpness of the new transfer, but retain the old colours of the laserdisc version of the film.
I know I'm no expert, but I can see clear image flaws which have resulted after your combination - with ghosting as the main problem. Here are some examples:I thought it might be interesting to apply the GOUT colours to the new SE edition image. In other words, keep the excellent edge sharpness of the new transfer, but retain the old colours of the laserdisc version of the film.
Interesting results nonetheless.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked
None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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My mum use to say 'you can't polish a turd', but Zion often surprises me!
LOL
My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]
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Originally posted by: boris
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!I know I'm no expert, but I can see clear image flaws which have resulted after your combination - with ghosting as the main problem. Here are some examples:
Interesting results nonetheless.
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!I know I'm no expert, but I can see clear image flaws which have resulted after your combination - with ghosting as the main problem. Here are some examples:
Interesting results nonetheless.
boris: Thanks! I thought I mentioned it clearly in my first post, but I am fully aware of these alignment errors, and the only way to remove them is to do a proper warp of one of the elements. That's the next thing I will try when I find some spare hours one evening.
Thanks for the comments everyone, looks like this is a very popular issue
cbaka: the link to my website is in my signature
Marvolo: I'll look into a After FX comp as well. You will need the Color Finesse plugin that comes with After FX to do an auto correction, otherwise everything should be standard AFX filters.
ADigitalMan: Yoda, eh?
I'll take a look at that as soon as I get my GOUT DVDs Thanks for the fan-edits by the way!Darth Lars: Substituting the loaders with one or several HD sources are no problem. Fusion is pretty much resolution independent, which makes it nice to switch back an forth between different sizes. By the way, is there any HD material available from the old trilogy? Trailers, anything?
THX: I'll give you some screenshots where the dark aren't kept as black. The noise has a horrible compression-like pattern, but since I haven't seen it in motion yet it might not be that bad when playing. However, there's not much extra detail in there. The subtle dark grays in Darths cape are lost forever in the new SE colour grade...
Laserman: Is it really necessary to do a tracked warp? I would imagine the warp to stay coherent within each shot, otherwise there would be a wobble, right? I reckon it should be enought to do an initial warp on one shot, and then tweak it on a per shot basis, offsetting the image before feeding it into a warp node. But of course I haven't got the bonus of experience here, so... But Fusion is great, by the way
One of the reasons I picked it instead of Shake is because it runs After Effects plugins, which is a great bonus. It could be a little better on memory handling, but at least it compensated by being fast.I will bring you an update when I get back from Berlin after next sunday.
Cheers,
Rune
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For reference, here are some preliminary shots I did about four months ago. No warping or color correction here, just a straight crop and merge of the X0 DC chroma and DarkJedi SC luma (merged image is on bottom):
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=merge14ku.jpg
http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=merge28gl.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=merge39kv.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=merge43ws.jpg
As you can see, the alignment is off. But this technique has the potential for some outstanding results if done properly.
My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]
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But the SC introduces a LOT of noise into what was a very clean image from the DC, and the whites in the SC seem WAY off, which also spoils the clean look of the DC when they are merged.
Didn't someone make an X0 capture of the SC it would be interesting to see the quality of that capture.
Wookie Monster
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My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]
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I wasn't trying to be negitive about the SC, the elimination of the gosting through your preliminury merges is a great achievement!
I also look forward to seeing what the colours are like in the X0 transfer of the SC.
Have you considered releasing a straight X0 transfer of the SC as a preservation copy? maybe a straight X0 transfer of the DC as well?
Regards
Wookie Monster
P.S.
Rune great results works especialy well on the light sabers!
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Originally posted by: Zion
Boris, the problem is with the warping of each version. When you overlay one on top of the other, they never line up exactly right. That's what all this morphing talk is about. It's not just some crazy Power Ranger business. Zion I'm well aware of that, I jut thought I'd point them out to other forum members who may not see the problems as quickly as I did.Laserman: Is it really necessary to do a tracked warp? I would imagine the warp to stay coherent within each shot, otherwise there would be a wobble, right?
What if the 2004 version was digitally stabalized reducing camera wobble, and the OUT wasn't?Boris, the problem is with the warping of each version. When you overlay one on top of the other, they never line up exactly right. That's what all this morphing talk is about. It's not just some crazy Power Ranger business. Zion I'm well aware of that, I jut thought I'd point them out to other forum members who may not see the problems as quickly as I did.Laserman: Is it really necessary to do a tracked warp? I would imagine the warp to stay coherent within each shot, otherwise there would be a wobble, right?
MoveAlong - I've been thinking about your TV caps and I think I may have figured out what they've done. They've squashed the picture for 16x9 so that people who watch it in 4x3 mode (and lets face it, so many clueless viewers will do this) have about the same picture distortion! That's the explination, I'm sure of it.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked
None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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What if the 2004 version was digitally stabalized reducing camera wobble, and the OUT wasn't?
Sorry about my explanations, english is not my first language.
With wobble I mean that the information within the frame is shifted in relation to each other, like distortions under water, and that this relative shifting differs from one frame to the next. If the movie was doing something like that it would be very obvious. That's why I questioned the method of tracking several areas of the frame, instead of a single location (the stabilization you need if the frame is just shifting). I would assume the warping that is in the frame to be lens-distortions from the old telecine (at least that's what I think I see), and perhaps some corner squeezing in order to get more of the image inside the safe frames.
Some noise-reduction routines and DVD compression can produce an effect similar to wobble, making the dark areas lag one frame behind the rest of the image. But I haven't examined the movies enough to confirm that particular effect.
Rune
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Originally posted by: boris
MoveAlong - I've been thinking about your TV caps and I think I may have figured out what they've done. They've squashed the picture for 16x9 so that people who watch it in 4x3 mode (and lets face it, so many clueless viewers will do this) have about the same picture distortion! That's the explination, I'm sure of it.
And now what I saw in my mind is shown to you all:MoveAlong - I've been thinking about your TV caps and I think I may have figured out what they've done. They've squashed the picture for 16x9 so that people who watch it in 4x3 mode (and lets face it, so many clueless viewers will do this) have about the same picture distortion! That's the explination, I'm sure of it.
I can't believe they'd do such a shoddy broadcast!
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked
None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: superrune
Sorry about my explanations, english is not my first language.
With wobble I mean that the information within the frame is shifted in relation to each other, like distortions under water, and that this relative shifting differs from one frame to the next. If the movie was doing something like that it would be very obvious. That's why I questioned the method of tracking several areas of the frame, instead of a single location (the stabilization you need if the frame is just shifting). I would assume the warping that is in the frame to be lens-distortions from the old telecine (at least that's what I think I see), and perhaps some corner squeezing in order to get more of the image inside the safe frames.
Some noise-reduction routines and DVD compression can produce an effect similar to wobble, making the dark areas lag one frame behind the rest of the image. But I haven't examined the movies enough to confirm that particular effect.
Rune
What if the 2004 version was digitally stabalized reducing camera wobble, and the OUT wasn't?
Sorry about my explanations, english is not my first language.
With wobble I mean that the information within the frame is shifted in relation to each other, like distortions under water, and that this relative shifting differs from one frame to the next. If the movie was doing something like that it would be very obvious. That's why I questioned the method of tracking several areas of the frame, instead of a single location (the stabilization you need if the frame is just shifting). I would assume the warping that is in the frame to be lens-distortions from the old telecine (at least that's what I think I see), and perhaps some corner squeezing in order to get more of the image inside the safe frames.
Some noise-reduction routines and DVD compression can produce an effect similar to wobble, making the dark areas lag one frame behind the rest of the image. But I haven't examined the movies enough to confirm that particular effect.
Rune
It is a bit of both.
Some scenes require only a 'set warp' to align them, but most require a tracked warp.
I think this is because we have multiple problems.
1. Lens distortion - if this was the only problem then you could devise just one warp for the whole transfer.
2. Film movement in the gate. Both sprocket wobble and the film not being perfectly 'flat' causing planar distortion in Z rather than just wobble in X&Y
3. Stabilisation differences.
It is easier to track the warp to get the 'set warp' done anyway, rather than trying to do it manually.
A simple warp would probaly work OK though, the resulting artefacts probably wouldn't disturb 90% of viewers, especially when moving.
It would certainly be worth a try, and would be a lot less effort.
The 2004 release seems to be somewhat stabilised, this is why I stabilise all footage before combining, so that at least movement within the frame is locked down and you aren't chasing a moving target.
Boris the flaws you discovered where already clearly pointed out by Rune and myself beforehand, as Rune said when mentioning the limitations of the process in his first post he said that just "Transforming the GOUT is too simple, you need a warp to properly match the two images"
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I just did a levels adjustment in Photoshop, adjusting the centre slider by eye to match the positions of the GOUT image's levels, and then adding a constant to lift the black level.
I'm not sure how I'd go about automating it, though...
DE
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EDIT: Recording an action:
Make sure the action window is visible (select window > actions).
Open the image(s) you want to correct.
Create a new action
Record the action/correct the image.
After that you can use this recorded action for the batch option.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here
Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here
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Not that I want to be an apologist, but for that particular shot/scene, I think somewhere between the two would be a good compromise - the blue one is too blue, but the GOUT colours look a little too studio-like to me.
I believe Photoshop CS has a colour matching tool - has anyone tried it on something like this?
DE
PS:
Some pretty bad burn marks visible on those frames...
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"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-
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“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan
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DE are you just messing around with this just for the heck of it or are you trying to figure out a good way to use it for your release?
Both
Now I've finally completed my 2d->3d move project (inspired by http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dhoiem/projects/popup/) I'll make a start on this one today and post some results later.What I'd really like to do is write a complete AviSynth plugin - does anyone know how? Or how to read an AviSynth file's output from C?
DE
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(scuze my english)