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Fanboy's Official TERMINATOR 3: RISE OF THE MACHINES Fan Cut Thread (unfinished project)

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After seeing Greencapt’s thread, and recently re-watching T3 I have decided to make my own fan cut of the film. I am by no means an expert on this stuff, and have not yet begun work so this thing will take 6 months to 1.5 years. I need all the help possible, as well as your support to go through with this. I am currently in my “planning” stage, messing around with editing programs, making a base-list of changes people want to see and getting all the tech-layed out.

Some changes I intend on making include:

-Trimming many short scenes sprawled throughout the film that explain things twice(!!!) (Watch the film again, and you’ll know what I mean…)
-Cutting some of the vomit inducing one liners, and wink wink nudge nudge’s to audience.
-Re-iroducing the deleted scene from disc one of the DVD.
-Shortening up the pre-credit introduction. (It was a little long, un-clean and drawn out.)
-Removing things already explained in T2.

Wish me luck, make suggestions and tell me where to start!

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I like T3. Nearly all films have flaws. Anyway, is the deleted scene being re-inserted the one with Arnold playing a soldier being the model for the Terminator? If so, I actually thought it was a bad scene though I haven't seen it or the film since I rented the DVD when it came out.
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Im currently decrypting my T3 dvd on to my HD, and have now decided against including the Sgt. Candy delted scene because it is in-fact on Disc 2, and I don't want to decrypt the entire supplemental disc for such a brief moment.

Its not that T3 is a bad film. It was tons of fun. But it would have been 10x better in my books if alot of the humour was removed, and it was edited "tighter".

Planned extras on the eventual DVD release of my edit include:

-Teaser Trailer
-Theatrical Trailer

I was wrong in my first post, expect my edit completed by the end of October at the very latest.
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You needn't decrypt the entirety of the second disc for that scene, if you do want to include it. If you're running Windows, download DVDShrink and simply take that part out. For Macs, I'm not so sure, but there are definitely people around here who can help you. Most certainly, though, you do not need to decrypt the whole disc.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.

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I remember thinking it needed re-editing (for my own tastes) when I first saw it. I thought the scene where he throws out one of his power supplies and it explodes in a pseudo-nuclear fireball was telegraphing the ending from miles away, although removing it might make the ending a bit cryptic.

I would remove any references to "delaying" Judgement Day - I'd rather pretend there was no discrepancy with dates, and that history was set - the events of T1-3 simply being to lead up to what's already happened (and we're told the humans have just about beaten the machines in T1, the time travel being a last ploy by Skynet to change history). For this reason I would also have to remove the killing of John's "lieutenants" (the kids at the party) since that's changing history.

I don't know how you'd work around it, but in an ideal world I'd like to remove any mention of Sarah's death, as it smacked way too much of "the actress didn't want to come back".

Smartripper and DVD Decryptor will also let you run individual titles or chapters from a disc.

David
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Well unfortunatly I was dumb and decrypted then demuxed the ENTIRE first disc. How do I go about deleting the commentary audio, the french audio, the menu files, and the supplements before I start editing?
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Originally posted by: Darth Editous
I remember thinking it needed re-editing (for my own tastes) when I first saw it. I thought the scene where he throws out one of his power supplies and it explodes in a pseudo-nuclear fireball was telegraphing the ending from miles away, although removing it might make the ending a bit cryptic.

I would remove any references to "delaying" Judgement Day - I'd rather pretend there was no discrepancy with dates, and that history was set - the events of T1-3 simply being to lead up to what's already happened (and we're told the humans have just about beaten the machines in T1, the time travel being a last ploy by Skynet to change history). For this reason I would also have to remove the killing of John's "lieutenants" (the kids at the party) since that's changing history.

I don't know how you'd work around it, but in an ideal world I'd like to remove any mention of Sarah's death, as it smacked way too much of "the actress didn't want to come back".

Smartripper and DVD Decryptor will also let you run individual titles or chapters from a disc.

David



I remember shuddering during the scene where he tosses the fuel cell, but as you said I can't cut it, because then the ending wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

In "cutting down the opening" I plan to remove the murders at the party, and the fast food drive-through as well as the scene where the cop pulls over the T-X and T-X says "I like your gun". Not needed when you think about it.

I also want to remove all the T2 refrences (minus the grave yard cameo). I wan't the viewer to be an already hardened Terminator fan, not someone just looking for some explosions.
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No offense intended here, but this isn't a new idea. I used to follow forum discussion about this and many of the ideas they had for editing it were quite compelling. I checked the link since reading about your proposal and it seems that link no longer works. I am going to see if I can track it down and though and perhaps it will help you with your edit.

T3 badly needs improvement. Going into the movie they ask to forget everythng we've learned in the first two films, mainly being "No fate but what we make." The other thing that doesn't make any sense and this is a fault with all of the Terminator movies, why keep going a little less far into the past? The first time they try to kill Sarah Conner. Next they go back an dtry to kill John Conner. Next they try to go back and kill John Conner's lieutenants and John Conner. Why not just kill Sarah as a baby, or her parents, or John as a baby...no excuses the movies may have given made sense to me. And the thing is, if Judgment day is inevitable, them why are the Terminators bothering to go at all. Apparently they kill John Conner in the end. They must be very concerned about what the future holds....anyway, sorry about ranting there, the concept behind T3 really upset me.

If you could even make Nick Stahl seem less like whiny SW Ep. II Anakin/Hayden Christensen, that would be fantastic.

Hope all goes well with your edit.
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I would remove any references to "delaying" Judgement Day - I'd rather pretend there was no discrepancy with dates, and that history was set - the events of T1-3 simply being to lead up to what's already happened (and we're told the humans have just about beaten the machines in T1, the time travel being a last ploy by Skynet to change history). For this reason I would also have to remove the killing of John's "lieutenants" (the kids at the party) since that's changing history.


I never quite understood why people had a problem with this, changing the past is integral to the plot of T2, the machines were only created because time was changed, and then it was changed back at the end of the film, it's a big paradox and it is different to most films dealing with time travel (i.e. Twelve monkeys where everything is preset), in these films time is fluid (like back to the future things can be changed)

"No fate but what we make." the future is not determined, that's the whole point of the second and third film.

That said, T3 was dissapointing and I wish fanboy every luck improving it, it had some good ideas but it didn't really work, also keep in mind that some scenes are best left deleted, try it out and see how it works but don't put it in just because you can. (I haven't seen it so I don't really know)
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Max_Rebo wrote:
I never quite understood why people had a problem with this, changing the past is integral to the plot of T2, the machines were only created because time was changed, and then it was changed back at the end of the film, it's a big paradox and it is different to most films dealing with time travel (i.e. Twelve monkeys where everything is preset), in these films time is fluid (like back to the future things can be changed)

Actually, CYBERDINE Industries, who was the creator of the machines, was in business in the original Terminator. There may have been a paradox sub-plot there (not talking about John's father and Sarah having sex and getting her pregnant with John which was an obvious paradox), but the machines being created because of the destroyed machine left in the Cyberdine building can be taken either way in my opinion. They would have come up with the technology eventually, it just would have taken longer.

Max_Rebo wrote:
"No fate but what we make." the future is not determined, that's the whole point of the second and third film.


No, it is the point of the second film which is contradcted in the third film. Like you said, time is fluid, not preset, but Judgment day is apparently set. The only thing that can be changed is the date and the characters involved. That is what contradicts the other two movies. If there is "no fate but what we make," then how come we can't stop Judgment day from happening?
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Originally posted by: Rebel11_38
Max_Rebo wrote:
I never quite understood why people had a problem with this, changing the past is integral to the plot of T2, the machines were only created because time was changed, and then it was changed back at the end of the film, it's a big paradox and it is different to most films dealing with time travel (i.e. Twelve monkeys where everything is preset), in these films time is fluid (like back to the future things can be changed)

Actually, CYBERDINE Industries, who was the creator of the machines, was in business in the original Terminator. There may have been a paradox sub-plot there (not talking about John's father and Sarah having sex and getting her pregnant with John which was an obvious paradox), but the machines being created because of the destroyed machine left in the Cyberdine building can be taken either way in my opinion. They would have come up with the technology eventually, it just would have taken longer.



exactly it's a similar time line just the date is changed by the activities of time travel.


Originally posted by: Rebel11_38
Max_Rebo wrote:
"No fate but what we make." the future is not determined, that's the whole point of the second and third film.


No, it is the point of the second film which is contradcted in the third film. Like you said, time is fluid, not preset, but Judgment day is apparently set. The only thing that can be changed is the date and the characters involved. That is what contradicts the other two movies. If there is "no fate but what we make," then how come we can't stop Judgment day from happening?


I don't think there is any contradiction (although I have only seen T3 once and may be missing something), there is nothing to say judgement day must happen, in T2 they believe that stopping cyberdine systems will stop the war but "hard to predict, the future is", they fail to take into acount the existance of sky-net which is a fundamental cog in the system, judgement day happens because of the AI of sky-net not because of the terminators, they are just a tool, this is cleverest bit of T3. But aslo judgement day may always happen because that is where the human race is leading and it is time for us to be judged?

I appologise if I haven't explained myself very well
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No apology needed. I think you explained yourself fine.

I too thought that the explanation of Skynet being software across the internet was cool, and I do realize that it was skynet that was responsible for Judgment day and not the Terminators seeing as that they were just the army. The problem is that in T3 they do say that there was no stopping Judgment day. Even in the epilogue voice-over by Nick Stahl, he says "We were never meant to stop Judgment day..." Huh? Since when? What was the point of fighting all this time if we couldn't stop it?

The other thing that bothered me was the lame death they gave to Sarah Conner. They go from having hope at the end of Terminator 2 to her being dead and making provisions for John for when Judgment day came, i.e. leaving weapons in her grave.

There are just so many things that are confusing...if old John Conner is killed in the future, then what purpose is there for another Terminator to go back in time and try to kill him then? Apparently the beginning shot of Nick as old John Conner was before he was killed, and the shot shows human victory. I don't know if this victory is a small one, or the ultimate. If humanity has finally won in that scene, what does John's death mean for the human race?

fanboy - I think for your edit that it is important to include at least part of the Sgt. Candy deleted scene. In the beginning it explains that the government bought or acquired this technology from Cyberdine somehow. I remember watching the movie wondering how we went from Cyberdine being the creator of Skynet to this government program. That scene explains. So, please include this scene.

That's all for now.
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some very good points, as I said I've only seen it once so i'd forgotten some of that (might have to watch it again somewhen), the epilouge doesn't bother me as it is said in hindsight and they could have tried to stop judgement day without knowing it was impossible to stop and only afterwards did they realise the futility of their actions.

The stuff about sarah leaving weapons in here grave is a problem and a contradiction, she believed she had stopped judgement day so why would she? the only explaination would be that these things were in her will and she wrote that when she was in hospital before the events of T2 and didn't get round to changing it, but if I believed that I'd be like all the people who make up rubbish excuses for the errors in the prequels when really it is just down to bad production.

thanks for the disscussion, it was fun, I really should watch this film again (although it was painful first time round) I do believe there is enough good in it to make a better edit though, go for it fanboy I'll help however I can although I too am only just starting on the road of editing.
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I'll add my thoughts to this thread, although I don't think they will help with the proposed edit, it might be interesting to discuss a different viewpoint.

The Terminator is one af my favourite films of the eighties. Although I think that T2 and T3 are both reasonably good action flicks, I don't think either are fitting sequels. Here's why:

- In the opening text in the original film, it says the final battle would not be fought in the future, it would be fought in the present. That's 1984 - not 1991 or 2003.

- Reese, talking about the nuclear war, says "a few years from now". To me that would suggest judgment day is 1987-1989. 1997 is over a decade away from 1984, more than "a few years".

- The Terminator is supposed to be an infiltration unit - difficult to spot. Surely then they should all look different, and not all look like Austrian bodybuilders? The one that appears in Reese's flashback (flashforward?) is a different actor, and in fact, I've read that Henrikson was to be orignally cast as the Terminator.

- The 800 series are new (in 2029), replacing the old 600 series that had rubber skin. If Skynet was defeated then, how could they go on to develop even newer T-1000s and T-Xs?

- After Reese went through, the humans were supposed to blow up the time travel facility. "It's just him, and me". So how did all these other Terminators get through?

- And if only living tissue, or a metal skeleton surrounded by living tissue, can time travel, how can these "liquid metal" terminators be sent back in time?

- If in the future they had some reprogrammed T-800s at their disposal, why did they send a human back to 1984? (Oh, and if you could just knock my mum up while you're there, that'd be good thanks).

- Arnie only had about 6 lines in the original film (not counting the bits where the Terminator was impersonating someone else) and it worked in his portrayal of a relentless unstoppable killing machine. I'm not really happy with the friendly chatty Terminator that appears in the other two films.

- Silberman being a criminal psychologist in the original, then being Sarah's doctor in T2 and seemingly unable to remember anything about Reese also doesn't really fit right.

The only fitting sequel I would have liked to have seen is the war against the machines, the tide turning in favour of the humans, and the the final victory with Reese being sent back in time. But then again, this is just my opinion (and I thought Temple of Doom was the best Indy film, so what do I know? )

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mind... shutting... down... too... many... time... para.... para... paradoxes...



What's a paradox?

Two physicians walking down the street!

*groan*
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Ha, ha...ha.


There are even more inconsistencies than what I had originally noticed. When they say the battle will be fought in the present I would assume that to be anytime around when Reese comes before Skynet becomes aware. So, while I think the word present is a bit flexible, obviously this fight didn't happen and Judgment day happened.

I just realized that if you ignore the events of Terminator 2, T1 and T3 make a lot more sense together. Sarah gets knocked up and gives birth to John. John grows up always hearing about Judgment say and how he is supposed to be some sort of great leader, He classifies it as BS and goes on with his life (mostly). His mom kind of gets crazier as she gets older and finally dies still preparing for Judgment day. John is devastated by the loss of his mother and starts to reconsider his view on what his mother always told him. Due more to paranoia than anything esle, he lives off the grid. Cut to T3. Now we don't have the messyness of Cyberdine having been blown up already, no T1000 to deal with, etc. The way you explain the events of T3 is that Arnold plays hs role from T2, but the TX isn't here so much to kill John, but to insure that Judgment day happens. Messing with the timeline back in 1984 has caused ripples that could ultimately destroy the Skynet ruled future. So, in another paradox, the latest Terminator prototype is sent back in time to ensure that Judgment day does happen and the time ripple anamoly doesn't cause them to never be created. John has the chance to stop all this from happening, i.e. "no fate but what you make," but blows it. The movie would be a total downer. Plus, it would give more depth to John's character because he wouldn't only be the hero of the human resistance, he would also be part of the reason there had to be one.

The third movie could go about the war between man and the machines. It would be awesome to finally have a movie set in that time period. It would be set at around the end of the war, and at the end of the movie, just as victory is won, a terminator is sent back in time to kill John as a boy. John has no choice but to send someone back to protect himself, and hopes that perhaps this time he could even stop this hellish future from happening. T2 becomes the fourth movie and the end of the series.

There would have to be a lot of little edits, mostly in T3, but it could happen and whoa...I am really liking this idea. If they do come out a fourth Terminator movie, and it set in the future like they are talking about, then changing the story to this might even be possible. Oh man, would that be cool....
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"It's so crazy, it just might work"

as far as some of moth3r's comments, while some i think are valid, i think your 'over-thinking' some parts of it.

1) agreed the few would imply 3-5 years, but I agree with Rebel11_38 about the term present being 'flexible'

2) they didnt have re-programmed T-800's they had one T-800 that they managed to capture and reprogram to send back to the past. and that wasnt available to them when the first terminator was sent back. Why the covered it the same as the one in the first movie, well a) they didnt necessarily know what the t-800 unit looked like, and you have to assume their access to the robot's arsenal was limited at best, and they had little of their own supplies to use to make coverings for the terminator, so im sure the machines had more than one 'look' for the terminator. plus, most of the time they fought as machines, that was only for infiltration.

3) time machine, do we know that they succeeded in destroying the time travel facility? nope. machines could have defended it. how do the humans know that was the only facility? why couldnt the machines be able to build another one? why couldnt this new facility be more advanced and allow liquid metal terminators to pass through?

4) not that i dont agree that the quiet terminator made a good portrayal of the relentless killer, but remember, reprogrammed. especially after the inhibitor chip was removed.

5) any (well their might be a few exceptions) time travel movie is filled with paradoxes. there are so many interpretations of time travel that its mind boggle to even think about them or what the effects would be. Even though they have the no fate but what we make, that someone said was 'abandoned' in 3. if the Machines didnt send back the terminator, john wouldnt have sent his father back, john wouldnt have been born, and the machines would have had no reason to send a terminator back. same thing with the arm in the factory. I think in the extended (might be the 'hidden' cut, on the T2 disc, not the more recent one, but the Ultimate one i think it was) the ending leaves the future open, never says that judgement day was prevented. (as i think the theatrical ending does) So i think a lot of this is open to interpretation, and the thing is more than one works. You can say that they are changing the future, or you can say that they are only playing their parts in what is bound to happen. thats what 3 seemed to say, but the only real problem is the fact that judgement day was still delayed. which makes the war at the end of 3 different than the war in the first. I think someone mentioned it, but if you remove references to the delayed judgement day, and make it only be the one judgement day it would work. I also think that Rebel11_38's idea for a quadrilogy woul be pretty interesting and have a good flow as well. But like i said, its about interpretation of the timeline (which is the case in any movie that touches on time travel, should see if i can find my time travel thread from a while back) the more sequals/prequals you make on the same idea, the more paradoxes you are bound to introduce, especially with the 'future is set' type timeline.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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hey Fanboy,

how's this comming along? any news? I'm still interested to see what you can do with this.
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very cool. that idea about switching t2 and t3's places is really interesting.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

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Wow, you guys really know your Terminator! You've brought up a lot of stuff I never even thought of before!

My feelings on the franchise are that T1 and T2 were a perfect series, and T3 screwed everything up. Sure it was great to get another Terminator, but it doesn't fit at all with the Cameron films. Rebel11_38, you have some awesome ideas that would not only be able to salvage T3, but improve the entire franchise! I really wish they would have filmed John sending Kyle back in time though, it would have tied everything together. For T4 I would hope they could get Michael Bean to reprise his role; I know he's 20 years older, but with the proper make-up, lighting, and clothing, it just might work. But who knows if they'd even follow up on that plot thread? All that aside, I'm really hoping for T4 now just so that "so crazy it just might work" idea of yours can be experimented with.
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I hope they will release a T3 DVD with ALL deleted scenes, like shown on:
http://www.hopeofthefuture.net/cuttingfloor/index.html

That would be very interesting!!


Anyway, please let me know when your fan-edit of T3 is ready. I'm thinking of doing my own fan-edit of T3.

Same Make. Same Model. New Mission.