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~French Coffret Trilogie LD to DVD transfer~ (Released) — Page 3

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See:
http://www.blam1.com/LaserDisc/FAQ/FAQ_Hardware.htm
(esp. section 11.1.14)

Such lines are usually caused by debris or foreign matter on the disc surface. If this is the case, I wouldn't expect two different discs to exhibit the same dropout at the same point.

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Then we'll have to ask arnie.d to double check. My TESB and ROTJ were still sealed when I got them btw, so if the dropouts are caused by dust or something on the disc, those won't have them.

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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"Line drops"

LD set 1, ANH FACE 4, frame 20374 (919e).
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8219/set1919e2oj.jpg

LD set 2, ANH FACE 4, frame 20374 (2950).
http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/6693/set229502kb.jpg

LD set 1, ANH FACE 4, frame 22939 (919e).
http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/2584/set1b919e4yb.jpg

LD set 2, ANH FACE 4, frame 22939 (2950).
http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/6914/set2b29505ow.jpg
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Yes, both of those appear on mine, too. Nice to know it's not my player!

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So what I'm interested in finding out is can this be fixed? I mean, do Empire and Return also have these same problems but you used some filters to fix it like Moth3r has mentioned? Or is this just a problem with New Hope?
peace,

Rebelscum
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The single line dropouts, as in the top picture, can easily be removed. They do occur in TESB and ROTJ, but they were removed by the DeScratch filter in my script. (A newer version of DeScratch was released after I had completed ANH; this newer version had more options available and I was able to tune the settings specifically for this kind of defect. I posted the script somewhere in my project thread.)

The type of defect shown in the bottom picture would be more difficult to remove. I never noticed it before.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
I posted the script somewhere in my project thread.

I searched your thread and could only find your pic with linedrop. Could you please repost the script? It would help a lot!

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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The full script was posted on Mon September 12, 2005.

The bit for removing the line drops is as follows:

ConvertToYV12()
turnleft()
descratch(minlen=700,asym=60,maxgap=50,maxwidth=1,mindif=7,blurlen=8,keep=0,border=0,maxangle=0,modeY=3)
turnright()
ConvertToYUY2()

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Originally posted by: Citizen
They also appear on the German PAL THX discs too, the drop outs it would appear are on the actual celluloid footage and not a result of the film to LD process.


I'd have to disagree. That really looks like a video problem, not film. Film problems are more commonly vertical, because that's the direction film moves. A perfectly-horizontal (i.e. one scan line) flaw like that must be a telecine artifact.

The fact that these flaws appear on both German and French (and Spanish?) versions is almost certainly because they're from the same master tape.
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Originally posted by: Citizen
They also appear on the German PAL THX discs too, the drop outs it would appear are on the actual celluloid footage and not a result of the film to LD process.


I'd have to disagree. That really looks like a video problem, not film. Film problems are more commonly vertical, because that's the direction film moves. A perfectly-horizontal (i.e. one scan line) flaw like that must be a telecine artifact.

The fact that these flaws appear on both German and French (and Spanish?) versions is almost certainly because they're from the same master tape.

They also appear on my US Faces discs, I guess then they would also be on the DC set.

The line in frame 22939 could be from a reflex or lights from the instrument panel.

The line in frame 20374 appears in four frames and clearly looks like a dropout of some sort, but how could the same dropout appear in both the PAL discs and the US discs ? ? - IMO not possible, the last frame containing the line is next to a cut and that would indicate that the line could be a horizontal scratch from the editing table and maybe it's been there since 1977.

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Hmm... interesting points.

The way that both NTSC and PAL versions have the same video flaw could be because they come from the same HD master tape. I'm not saying I'm sure they did, but they could have. There is a good chance that the master is HD. Even if that was dubbed down to sub-masters, those sub-masters could show the same flaw if it was added early on in the chain.

On the other hand, knowing that Faces has this same flaw, and that it's a frame before a cut, I'd have to agree that there is a stronger possibility that it's on the film itself.
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Well, it's in my capture for sure and I can't remove it with Moth3r's script for some reason and I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what "minlen=700,asym=60,maxgap=50,maxwidth=1,mindif=7,blurlen=8,keep=0,border=0,maxangle=0,modeY=3" means so I can't adjust it.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d Well, it's in my capture for sure and I can't remove it with Moth3r's script for some reason and I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what "minlen=700,asym=60,maxgap=50,maxwidth=1,mindif=7,blurlen=8,keep=0,border=0,maxangle=0,modeY=3" means so I can't adjust it.

Read all about it here but finding the right settings really is a tedious trail and error thing so if it's only these lines or maybe a few more you want to remove, I would use photoshop and remove them 'by hand' and then use imagesource to insert the edited frames, IMO it's faster and safer than descratch.

Although if your capture has many random line dropouts, descratch could be tuned to remove most of them if they are distinct enough.

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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Hmm... interesting points.

The way that both NTSC and PAL versions have the same video flaw could be because they come from the same HD master tape. I'm not saying I'm sure they did, but they could have. There is a good chance that the master is HD. Even if that was dubbed down to sub-masters, those sub-masters could show the same flaw if it was added early on in the chain.

On the other hand, knowing that Faces has this same flaw, and that it's a frame before a cut, I'd have to agree that there is a stronger possibility that it's on the film itself.
I'd vote it's a video flaw. The locations of these dropouts do not generally coincide with cut/splice points, e.g.:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7682/line2cy.jpg

And why do they not appear on the VHS? My '95 VHS set is from the same print (i.e. famous burn marks in first Tantive shot) but does not have these line dropouts present.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Originally posted by: Karyudo
Hmm... interesting points.

The way that both NTSC and PAL versions have the same video flaw could be because they come from the same HD master tape. I'm not saying I'm sure they did, but they could have. There is a good chance that the master is HD. Even if that was dubbed down to sub-masters, those sub-masters could show the same flaw if it was added early on in the chain.

On the other hand, knowing that Faces has this same flaw, and that it's a frame before a cut, I'd have to agree that there is a stronger possibility that it's on the film itself.
I'd vote it's a video flaw. The locations of these dropouts do not generally coincide with cut/splice points, e.g.:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7682/line2cy.jpg

And why do they not appear on the VHS? My '95 VHS set is from the same print (i.e. famous burn marks in first Tantive shot) but does not have these line dropouts present.

Yes the line you are showing must be a dropout, it's a bit strange though since most player are equipt with a dropout correction circuit that should replay the last correctly scanned line if the signal from the laser is lost. I've never seen it happen though but then I've never seen many (any) line dropouts on my discs either, but anyway it should be possible to see the duplicated lines in the capture if the player tried to correct a dropout, could be that this dropout maybe is not severe or long enough to trigger the correction circuit. Descratch should be able to safely remove most of them if they like this one is almost totally white or totally black.

The lines shown by Arnie.d in frames 20374 and 22939 could not be a video dropout, as they are in both the NTSC and PAL releases even the SE and I would guess even in your '95 VHS

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These definitely look like video flaws, not film scratches. If they're on PAL & NTSC, then Karyudo must be right about them coming from the same telecine. But if they're on SE editions, that wouldn't make sense. So... ask LFL.
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I can't believe the '95 PAL and NTSC releases came from the same telecine.

Why are the famous burn marks in first Tantive shot only in the PAL releases (?)

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Yes, it does seem unlikely. But then if those burn marks are only on PAL because a different negative/print was used for the NTSC telecine, then those video drop-out lookalike marks would have to be on the original negative, which would put them on every OT version (which they aren't), or on an interpositive/intergnegative that was used for the NTSC telecine and then burned before making the PAL telecine which seems more unlikely. Does anyone know the generational history of the THX transfers?
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Any news on your project Arnie?
peace,

Rebelscum
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Yes.
I decided to do 2 versions (both dual layer). One direct transfer and one noise filtered + sharpened. Direct transfer of Hope is ready, Empire and Jedi will follow soon, but I can't get upload permission at myspleen I tried to PM the mods directly, the only reply I got was that I had been promoted to "Donor" but I still can't upload. I've sent another PM and I'm waiting for a reply...

I can't burn DL discs yet but I want to make DL versions anyway, otherwise I'll regret it later.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Have you thought about releasing it to a.b.starwars???
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No I haven't.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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You dont need to get uploader status, if you like I could upload for you?