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~French Coffret Trilogie LD to DVD transfer~ (Released) — Page 2

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Originally posted by: Rebelscum
Do you have any screencaps to post on here? Also I don't know much about sound but I do know that the PCM sound on the good old TR47 set is great, really powerful, heavy bass and very crisp. So going with the PCM couldn't be a bad decision.

I'm so interested in this project of yours, with this being the best available PAL laserdisc edition of Star Wars. Should be a great project.

Keep up the good work...

Thanks Rebelscum! But I doubt it's the best available PAL ld to dvd edition. I don't use any filters to sharpen so Moth3r's and Citizen's versions will be sharper (I don't denoise either). I'm trying to get these movies on DVD as close to the laserdisc source as possible.

{EDIT} I don't have any screen caps as I haven't encoded anything yet.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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[Obsolete]
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Beware the lure of filters. That path can lead to the dark side.
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Point taken!
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Filters can lead to great results. But when you overuse them, or apply the wrong filters for the effects you want, you can end up with a result worse then the thing you started with.

So when you add filter, please double check the result, before you apply it in your chain.

A new release of Star Wars is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

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Well I got my new soundcard with optical in and did some test captures. But I can't hear any difference compared to the audio captured using the canopus. In adobe audition the peaks are almost the same.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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Never mind the peaks, check the noise floor. That's where you should see a difference.

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How does one analyze the sound floor?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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Keep in mind I've not actually tested this method myself, but:
1. Find a section of silence.
2. Measure the RMS level of this section (using Sound Forge, Audition, etc.).

Ideally the digital to digital copy will be -[infinity]dB (that is unmeasurable noise) whereas the analogue copy would be -[some value]dB.

Edit: forum software didn't like the infinity symbol I inserted.

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I tested a piece of silence between the fox logo and the crawl.

Digital: RMS: -96.0, Peak: -68.0
Analoge: RMS: -96, Peak: -70.3

When I play the files (between the logo and crawl) and I can clearly see that the -db value is higher for the analoge capture, so it's more silent right?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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What you wanna do is get your headphones on and really crank it up, have the analogue and the digital samples side by side and listen to them both.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
I tested a piece of silence between the fox logo and the crawl.

Digital: RMS: -96.0, Peak: -68.0
Analoge: RMS: -96, Peak: -70.3 Hmmm, I would expect the digital peak to be lower than the analogue.
Originally posted by: Arnie.d
When I play the files (between the logo and crawl) and I can clearly see that the -db value is higher for the analoge capture, so it's more silent right?
No, a higher value means more noise. A lower value (by lower, I mean of course "more negative") indicates less noise.

I did a test on pure silence and it came out at -96.0dB RMS, -96.0dB peak.

I don't really know much about this, I think I need to do some reading up at the hydrogenaudio.org forums.
Originally posted by: boba feta
What you wanna do is get your headphones on and really crank it up, have the analogue and the digital samples side by side and listen to them both.
But make sure you don't play any real signal, or you'll kill your ears!

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With higher -db value I meant closer to -96, so more silent.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Originally posted by: Arnie.d
I tested a piece of silence between the fox logo and the crawl.

Digital: RMS: -96.0, Peak: -68.0
Analoge: RMS: -96, Peak: -70.3 Hmmm, I would expect the digital peak to be lower than the analogue.
Originally posted by: Arnie.d
When I play the files (between the logo and crawl) and I can clearly see that the -db value is higher for the analoge capture, so it's more silent right?
No, a higher value means more noise. A lower value (by lower, I mean of course "more negative") indicates less noise.


Could it be that the 'silent piece' is not that silent at all but contains a wide spectrum background noise from the film and recording equipment and also the LD-player, so if/since the digital input has better bandwidth it will simply pick up more of this source noise. In any case I would be surprised if the unweighted signal to noise ratio of the SW movies soundtrack is much better than 65-70dB (higher S/N ratio = lower noise of course).

A digital input should also give less distortion, none if it really is bit-accurate ?

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Could be you just need to correct a DC offset.

I checked a silent bit of my mono mix capture (very old recording, VHS linear track) and the RMS noise floor was about -38dB, but after correcting the DC offset it was -57dB.

A silent bit of the uncompressed ANH audio as used on my DVD (retail VHS hi fi, normalised and noise reduction applied) was about -75dB.

Tip: Use Tools -> Statistics in Sound Forge rather than scan levels in the Normalize dialogue to measure stuff.

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Thanks for the tip moth3r.

But correcting the DC offset? I don't know. Why would the offset be wrong? How do I know what it should be? I think I'll leave it as it is.

For who is interested, here you can find two samples of PCM audio from Hope (analogue and digital capture) to compare. If the difference between the 2 is really as small as I think it is, I'm not sure I will go thru the trouble of capturing the audio digitally and sync it up with the video when the audio I already have is almost as good and is in sync perfectly.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Did you fix the missing screenwipe at the end of side one, and if so, what did you use?

I checked out your preview, and just some thoughts comparing it with my DVD -

Brightness, contrast and colour all seem good and correct. The green laserbolts are nicer than my capture, which is slightly off-colour in the greens and yellows.

The picture is noticeably softer than mine. However, the increased sharpness in mine has the effect of worsening the dot crawl and increasing noise. Even though you didn't use a noise filter and I did, my capture appears to contain about the same amount of video noise as yours. Overall yours is probably truer to the laserdisc source.

I didn't compare the audio, but I expect it's much better than my VHS source.

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Didn't fix the wipe.

Moth3r, if you ever make a version 2, I would be happy to get you the audio.

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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I noticed on Moth3r's EP IV that there are occasionally bright white lines across the screen. This happens a number of times troughout the film. Have you encountered that same problem on your capture Arnie? Is this because of laser rot or something else? And also, have you encountered any other audio/video bugs on your laserdiscs?

Also if Moth3r plans to do a V.2 (fingers crossed!) and fix some of the bugs of V.1 than I defo think he should take you up on that audio offer. I think it's important to have the best possible sound with the best possible picture. Having seen the quality of Moth3r's work, I'm actually pretty certain that if Lucas never releases the OOT on DVD (which is think is very likely), I will be quite happy with the PAL laserdisc to DVD transfers, because the quality is definitely there. It's just a matter of bringing it out more, enhancing the qualities and decreasing the faults. Anyways, keep up the good work fellas!
peace,

Rebelscum
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If I ever decide to do V2.0, it's a long way off yet, believe me.

However, that doesn't necessarily rule out a V1.1...

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Originally posted by: Rebelscum
I noticed on Moth3r's EP IV that there are occasionally bright white lines across the screen. This happens a number of times troughout the film. Have you encountered that same problem on your capture Arnie? Is this because of laser rot or something else? And also, have you encountered any other audio/video bugs on your laserdiscs?

Also if Moth3r plans to do a V.2 (fingers crossed!) and fix some of the bugs of V.1 than I defo think he should take you up on that audio offer. I think it's important to have the best possible sound with the best possible picture. Having seen the quality of Moth3r's work, I'm actually pretty certain that if Lucas never releases the OOT on DVD (which is think is very likely), I will be quite happy with the PAL laserdisc to DVD transfers, because the quality is definitely there. It's just a matter of bringing it out more, enhancing the qualities and decreasing the faults. Anyways, keep up the good work fellas!

I've seen a few white lines. It's no rot, it's in the source used for the LD since they are in the exact same frames in both my own and Wer-Al_Zwowe's set. I haven't really seen or heard other video/audio bugs. But there are many frames with dirt. I've seen some rot in both sets. I'll combine the best FACES from both LD sets (4 FACES per movie).

The quality is probably there, but I can't reach all of it. I think X0 will make every other transfer look pathetic... but I wanted to do my own transfer.

I'm going to try and fix the wipe with Wer-Al_Zwowe's german THX set which does have the wipe. Thanks Wer-Al_Zwowe for lending me all your discs!!!
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
I think X0 will make every other transfer look pathetic... but I wanted to do my own transfer.


I hope you're right about the X0 Project. And I think you're right about wanting to make your own transfer. It's something not all that many people do (despite there being a pretty good concentration of that kind of person here on OT.com), and unless you cheap out and use a DVD recorder, you have to educate yourself about a ton of basics, just to get in the ballpark of a good transfer.

I don't think that many people really realize just how tricky and time-consuming it is to make your own capture, and do a good job. Those of you who have done your own get my respect, no matter how your versions end up stacking up to each other -- or to the eagerly-anticipated X0.

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Originally posted by: Rebelscum
I noticed on Moth3r's EP IV that there are occasionally bright white lines across the screen. This happens a number of times troughout the film. Have you encountered that same problem on your capture Arnie? Is this because of laser rot or something else?
I think these video "line drops" are a problem with my player. I mentioned it in my project thread on 18 March 2005.

I applied a filter to remove these lines, however it wasn't 100% sucessful for ANH. I tweaked the settings a bit for the other two, and it worked much better.

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I have it too. So your 925 does it, arnie.d's 2950 does it, my 909 does it. And arnie.d stated the drops are in the same spots on two different sets. It must be the discs themselves.

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.