The Starlight Project Addendum: The Rise of Skywalker (Freeform Brainstorming Session) — Page 7

That’s true. Palpatine is the source of this information, and Kylo is incentivized to believe it without question. As for the scenes on Ahch-To, those are about Rey’s lineage anyhow, and her being claimed as a Palpatine by name. There isn’t such a place to shoot down this news as it pertains to the Skywalkers. Leia would only fear the darkness that she associates with Vader in the flashback anyway, so it wouldn’t be a direct confirmation.

That being said though, have you seen the sly look Palpatine gives Anakin as he says “influence the midichlorians to create life?” It’s pretty wild. And what the opera show they’re watching looks like is a literal egg being surrounded by sperm cells.

I have to say that I have been very, very against any version of TROS where Ben doesn’t live, BUT keeping the Dyad alive, the Rey/Ben kiss still there, Rey as someone created from the Force via Palpatine and still a nobody thus of the two bloodlines as well as described in the last couple of pages kinda works for me. This is the first time that I can see Ben dying making sense as long as Rey lives. I have always just been vehemently against the last Skywalker dying. Rey taking the name is nice, but it’s not enough for me. It feels like a band-aid. But I digress. This, however, if done well, yeah, it could work.

I think I’ve cracked the potential misinterpretation of incest happening with their kiss with the following dialog:

"Because he influenced the Force to create two dark bloodlines. My grandfather’s, and then perfected with you. You’re his heir, Rey. You… are a Palpatine.”

“The Emperor told me to kill you so that the strongest of us takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond not of shared blood, but power. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…”

EDIT: Oh, and this from the beginning - "I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. I share the darkness that lives in you, Rey…”

I think it’s necessary only to convey that it was the same type of love that was meant to save Padme that saved Rey. Finishing what his grandfather started and all that.

Yeah, I’m someone who is very-pro kiss. I think it needs to be kept for several reasons.

1.) Every SW trilogy has had the space kiss.
2.) It wraps up the Kylo(Ben)/Rey story that began in TFA when he asked “What girl?” and then later carried her onto his ship, continued through their Force bond in TLJ, and followed through in “I wanted to take Ben’s hand” in this film.
3.) Based on the Kylo Ren comics, the novel/stories that feature his childhood, anything we know about him from other media/information, and from the films themselves, this guy has experienced very little happiness in his life. Come on, you’re really gonna take away these few moments of happiness? You’re gonna take away when he gets to kiss the girl?
4.) Carrie Fisher promised Daisy Ridley she would get her space kiss! Why you wanna take that away?
5.) Finally, as JJB said, we get the reversal of Anakin/Padme with Kylo(Ben) actually achieving what he said he wanted to do: Finish what his grandfather started. Anakin’s goal was to save Padme, the woman he loved. He failed. Ben does it. He succeeds in saving the woman he loves.

For all of the above reasons, yeah, the kiss between Ben and Rey absolutely should stay.

To also shift Palpatine out of the role of a father (which could lead to some of this misinterpretation in the first place) the following would need to be changed:

“You were right… your parents were no one. But no father was involved in your creation.”

Rey needs to be referred to as a Palpatine or the whole point of my original idea was for nothing. And of course, in order to do that he has to state she is his heir.

I’m also unsure about Kylo knowing about Palpatine’s desire to possess one of them at this point in the movie. Especially if we were to remove the “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you” stuff and put it back where it belongs. This moment would then just be more about who Palpatine will see as his rightful heir when they fight. Then the dark twist that he just wanted to possess the “winner” would come later.

As a result I’d say what I have for my original last two paragraphs is what I’d prefer. It’s also not very clear now that the place her parents are looking for is on Jakku, I was under the impression we were trying to explain Lor San Tekka’s village? Also, Rey’s reaction of “Don’t” makes less sense to the generally inoffensive statement you have there.

Le’s try this (not posting the whole rewrite since it’s well trod at this point)

Kylo: (Force Skype) Palpatine wants us to fight.

Rey: Serving another master?

Kylo: Please. He’s a decrepit fossil.

JEDIT:

Kylo: I offered you my hand once. You wanted to take it. Why didn’t you?

Rey: You could’ve killed me. Why didn’t you?

Kylo: I was missing a piece of the puzzle.

Rey : I see through the cracks in your mask. You’re haunted. You can’t stop seeing what you did to your father.

Kylo: I’ve been haunted since my Jedi days. Since I saw a vision of Grandfather & Palpatine, side by side. And it’s lead me to this moment. I’m going to find you…When I offer you my hand again…you’ll take it.

Rey: We’ll see.

END OF JEDIT

(Later)
 
“You were right…your parents were no one. Toys for the Dark Side to break.”

“Don’t!”

“But not you. Like my grandfather, you were different, powerful…”

(Later)

“Why did the Emperor come for me?.”

“Palpatine created Vader, Rey. And he perfected that trick with you. Your his heir to the Empire.”

“That’s why our bond is so strong, Rey. We’re connected to him…nothing but potential vessels. But we can kill him, and bring a new order to the galaxy…together.”

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I do.”

We’re probably gonna have to bite the bullet here and just figure out a way to get a version of the dyad-duel scene and the hangar scene without Kylo’s dialogue present in the locations we want. Then we’d be free to diverge from there, although I’m sure applying the proper echo effects to his voice would be a hard thing to do, for me at least. Speaking of which, are we even sure this is something that’s possible to do? I’m pretty sure Kylo’s voice is present in most of the channels at least in the hangar scene due to the echos. And his loud-ass footsteps need to be in place.

As cool as this idea is, it may be more wise to focus our efforts on making v5 of Ascendant as good as possible first. I’ve already got the Leia knew about Rey’s darkness handled, which was my biggest problem originally. I haven’t started testing Zorri’s new lines for a Kijimi rebellion. And I think it would be an interesting experiment to place the Leia/Rose + Snap scene after the heroes have escaped the cave. I could also start ripping Kylo’s voice from their dyad-duel and hangar scene for a superior voice clone to improve the lines already in Ascendant. The lines currently there are based on LEGO TFA Kylo Ren.

Rewatching Nando V Movies TROS videos, and I’m kinda convinced that JJB is right: there needs to be a potentially canon-altering twist that recontextualizes the Skywalker Saga, like the Skywalkers and the Palpatines being one in the same. Rey can even still be a Nobody, the big threat that Palpatine personifies for her is the idea of the Star Wars legacy being a colossal lie. The big reveal in the hangar could be Kylo saying “Palapatine…is the First Skywalker.” That way, her taking on the name Skywalker is her reaffirming the stories she grew up on still having value.

But the distinction I’m so desperately trying to make is that while they’re one in the same, that’s only because of the purpose and intention poured into their very being. Genetically, they would be completely unrelated. It’s all of that malice and cruelty which was influencing the Force to create this life that makes them so similar. In both cases, you could think of Rey’s father and Anakin’s father as the Force itself, but twisted to Palpatine’s desire. This process would then be perfected with Rey, and as a result Palpatine views her as his own daughter. They are all related in terms of their nature/disposition but not genetically (so Reylo is still at thing). It’s hard to convey these complex topics in words, though. I’m starting to see why George would potentially hold off on a reveal like this to make it more clear what exactly is going on microscopically.

One benefit of making this abundantly clear is that we shift away from everyone being related to each other genetically. With default TROS, there’s only two bloodlines - Palpatine and Skywalker. With this new idea, it would be Palpatine, Skywalker, and whatever name Rey’s parents claimed. Of course, Kylo never reveals this to her, which is what leads her to claim Skywalker because she is related to them in spirit.

This would go at the beginning:
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it… I needed you to see it… who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”

And this at the end:
"Because he manipulated the Force itself to create dark life. My grandfather, and then perfected with you. You’re his chosen heir. You… are a Palpatine.”

"The Emperor told me to fight you so his strongest heir takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond not of shared blood, but power. We can end him and the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…”

“Rey…wherever you are…You are hard to find."

“You are hard to get rid of.”

“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. The dark side is in your nature, Rey…”

“You’re lying.”

“You were right…your parents were no one. Junk traders expecting a child they didn’t ask for.”

“Don’t!”

“But your father had no part in your conception…”

“I don’t want this!”

“… just like my grandfather.”

“No!”

“Palpatine chose you.”

(Rey sees the vision of her on the sith throne.)

“I’ve seen it just as you have.”

“Stop talking.”

“Rey…I the know the rest of your story.”

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

“Palpatine tried to find you when you were young. He sent his hunters after you. He knew the power you possessed… The darkness."

“So that’s where you are.”

“You know why Palpatine was searching for you. I’ll come tell you.”

…

“Why did the Emperor come for me? Tell me.”

"Because he manipulated the dark side of the force itself to create life. You’re his creation, his chosen heir. You… are a Palpatine.”

"My family was created by the light. And you, the dark. What Palpatine doesn’t know is that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… two, that are one. We can end the Sith, and bring a new order to the galaxy, together…”

“You know what you need to do. You know.”

“I do.”

…

Slightly altered some of RL’s ideas. The light created the Skywalker’s, but Palatine used the dark to create Rey. His experiment worked, but he didn’t know where Rey ended up, so he focused on Ben in hopes that Rey would reveal herself. Parents are removed. Ochi could have still been looking for Rey, but never killed her parents. Once she was born, they sold her and left Jakku. Would only take a slight vfx edit in TFA to change the ship in the flashback. Also requires removal of the “dead in a paupers grave” line in TLJ, but makes sense with those changes.

My problem with that is what I stated in a post on the last page. Kylo would NEVER admit that his grandfather was created by the light or that shatters his entire persona as Kylo Ren. He may as well just be Ben Solo again at that point, then. He says “the dark side is in our nature” on the Death Star wreckage. Plus, my idea is all too convenient not to include in the context of the sequel trilogy. I’m not going to repost what I already stated, but Ben, Luke, and Leia all deal with profound darkness in this trilogy that does not correlate with Anakin being a creation of the light, merely manipulated, and ultimately redeemed as a Jedi. None of that has an impact, and it demands an answer in my opinion.

I agree that Kylo wouldn’t admit that about Vader, so maybe change that line back. But, I think the idea that Kylo comes from the light and chooses the dark and Rey comes from the dark and chooses light one of the most interesting parts about them, and what makes the dyad so strong. Besides, it’s not about where they come from, but the decisions they make for themselves. That’s the point of Rey’s story, after all. And if they both have the same origin, what makes Rey’s journey different?

With my previous draft, her journey would be different in that she is the one claimed by Palpatine as his own due to the fact that he “perfected” the method of creating dark life through the Force with her. So, take whatever evil predisposition Kylo has in him, and multiply that by whatever factor you deem fit.

That being said, the only way your approach works is if Kylo simply avoids talking about the Skywalker’s family origin at all - leaving it entirely up to the viewer’s interpretation whether Palpatine did the same thing with Anakin that he does with Rey. But this also removes the parallels that you mentioned, and makes the dyad forming between them less interesting in principle. There just wouldn’t be a lot to talk about in the second paragraph there.

I dunno, I’ve heard that many people didn’t like Vader being revealed as Luke’s father when ESB first came out. I think a lot of people voicing their distaste for the idea that BOTH bloodlines were created to be dark are experiencing a similar phenomenon. Once again, I’d like to make it clear that just because Palpatine’s machinations led to the creation of somebody who is dark-natured, that doesn’t mean that the Force itself can’t later choose that person after the fact to bring balance. I think that’s what makes this idea so powerful. You can take somebody that was meant to cause so much evil, and through fate have them overcome that and bring about good and balance. It’s also hilariously ironic in that Palpatine meant to create the ultimate Sith Lord twice in a row, but both times their spirit/heart overcomes their evil nature and kill him.

EDIT: Hell, the reason Palpatine created a girl the second time is probably because he’s a sexist and thinks she’d be a pushover to his will. It’s all just really funny to me how much what he intends blows up in his face (literally).

It’s just sort of vague how she is a more “perfect” creation than the Skywalkers. If anything, Anakin was more powerful and more susceptible to the dark side than Rey. I think Kylo can recognize where his family came from while actively choosing the dark. He doesn’t want to be like Vader, he’s actively looking to destroy the sith and start something new. He’s trying to be better. The imagery of Rey and Kylo destroying Vader’s mask supports this. Perhaps you could hint at this earlier in kylos visions. I’ve seen people talk about the fan film where Kylo kills Vader, and while I wouldn’t want to use the whole thing, maybe a few shots from that could reinforce this point.

Arguably, Kylo wants the same thing that Vader always wanted. Vader wanted to rule the galaxy as family (father and son), and end the Sith with Palpatine. Vader absolutely hated Sidious.

They don’t destroy his mask, either, just the pedestal it’s on unintentionally. I’d say the fact that he’s keeping Vader’s mask prominently in his quarters as well as reforging his mask from TFA indicates that he does still want to finish what Vader started. Many people just assume that what he states in TLJ was him dismissing Vader’s legacy, but ironically what he is describing in that scene is EXACTLY what Vader sought, after killing his master no less (what Vader always wanted). He wanted to rule the galaxy with his wife and children, Sith and Jedi be damned. Trust me, watch Anakin talking to Padme on Mustafar and then this scene from TLJ. And we get to confirm this correlation in this film, especially if we replaced “and create a new order, together” with “and finish what Vader started, together” as the final line.

How about this instead:

"Because he manipulated the Force itself to create life. My grandfather. Then, perfected in darkness with you. You’re his chosen heir… a Palpatine.”

"The Emperor told me to fight you so his strongest heir takes the throne. But he’s unaware that we’re a dyad in the Force, Rey… a bond, not of shared blood, but power. We’ll kill him, and finish what Vader started, together…”

This way it’s up to interpretation whether Anakin’s bloodline was even infused with that extra dose of the dark side compared to the average Force-user, giving more significance to Rey’s own origin. I think you mentioned earlier that Rey doesn’t use the dark side as much as Anakin, and this just isn’t true. Especially with Starlight, her whole journey in that movie is her tapping more and more into the dark side until going full Sith-eyes on Kylo. Meanwhile, Anakin in TPM is super innocent. In TLJ, she goes “straight to the dark” in search of answers multiple times. Her fight with the Praetorian guards is extremely aggressive. She also summons Force lightning without any training whatsoever in this movie. The only way that last part is even remotely possible if she is literally supercharged with the dark side of the Force.

Yeah, I think that could work too. But I’d still like to make a version where Rey’s parents are unimportant. We’d just have to think of a backstory that makes sense. You could say Palpatine put Rey on Jakku on purpose, but then there needs to be a reason why he focuses on Kylo. You could also say that Palpatine didnt know where Rey or Anakin were and got lucky that quigon found Anakin, but that makes Palpatine look sort of inept.

It could definitely work, under the following conditions:

1. We’d definitely have to reinstate “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here, with me” AND “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me” back to where they are. This is because we would have to remove Rey’s remarks about her parents being good (maybe not “Weak, like your parents”). Reinstating both of these would help their scenes feel less cut down.
2. Her visions of her parents would have to go. As Hal said, and I agreed with, the audience will ALWAYS believe what they’re being shown over what they’re told. Your idea of having the Sith throne being one of her brief visions is solid. But we still would have to deal with the other one.
3. TFA’s vision desperately needs its ship replaced with a different one. Unless we can come up with some crazy reason why they’d be flying around a Sith assassin’s ship.