Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue — Page 7

So much good stuff from content before the Prequel Trilogy films were released that I’ve forgotten:
 

I found this helpful thread on a rare visit to the StarWarsEU reddit: Prequels before the prequels
 

"A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition (1994) placed Obi-Wan and Anakin’s births at 60 and 55 BBY respectively.

The Thrawn Trilogy and various other material put the end of the Clone Wars at 35 BBY.

An obscure West End Roleplaying Game piece lists Palpatine as a former Jedi Master.

Jedi Search has Luke saying Yoda lived on Dagobah for hundreds of years.

The ESB Novelization says the Republic fought Mandalorians in the CW, and pretty much everybody agreed the Clones were the main enemy.

The main uniform of the Jedi was what Luke wore in ROTJ.

the Sith were name dropped in the ANH Novelization, but nobody knew what they actually were. Zahn wanted to to have them as what later became the Noghiri, but that was vetoed.

Palpatine came into power after the CW. Mon Mothma was a Senator at the time.

Obi-Wan had another apprentice alongside Anakin during the CW (initially Vader when he was a separate character from Ani, but that was obviously retconned. That guy later became Halagad Ventor).

Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother.

Luke and Leia’s mother stayed with the latter, and died when the twins were four.

Anakin and Obi-Wan still fought on a lava planet.

Obi was implied to be from Tatooine.

Jedi could get married.

Boba Fett’s real name was Jaster Meereel, and he was an adult during the CW.

Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

Leia’s adoptive father’s first name was Prestor (retconned to be his middle name).

Anakin didn’t know his wife was pregnant at all.

If I remember anything else, I’ll edit it in."

 
^ all in a single post by CharlieTheStrawman

I remember that old “A Guide to the Star Wars Universe” book. I’ll have to dig it out and give it another read! Then onto the Tales Of The Jedi series again, I’ve not read those fully since the Prequel films.

Pic of “A Guide to the Star Wars Universe” also found on reddit:

Edit: there is more on this, and the pre-PT era lore in general, in this new thread:

Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome

All of that makes a lot more sense than what we got in the Prequels.

I’ve come across a few posts from folks who claim that K. W. Jeter’s The Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy references the Clone Wars. Specifically, that the majority of Mandalorians disappeared from the known galaxy at the end of the wars, their fleet making a blind hyperspace jump into the unknown. None of them cited their sources, though, which is frustrating.

These are some cool ideas I might incorporate in my Prequel rewrite.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother.

Then why does Owen hate Obi-Wan so much?

Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

When did the Empire begin? What put him in the suit before he fought Obi-Wan?

G&G-Fan said:

These are some cool ideas I might incorporate in my Prequel rewrite.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother.

Then why does Owen hate Obi-Wan so much?

Resentment over Ben leaving the family to become a Jedi + blame for Anakin’s death/fall (whichever Owen believed to be the case) + jealousy, perhaps?

Vader was already in the suit when the Empire began, he rose the through the ranks as damaged goods (mainly through being Tarkin’s henchman).

When did the Empire begin? What put him in the suit before he fought Obi-Wan?

In Heir to the Empire, Pellaeon muses on having served in the Imperial Starfleet for fifty years. 9 ABY - 50 years = 41 BBY, if we assume Pellaeon wasn’t also including time spent in the Republic Starfleet.

As for Vader being in the armour by 35 BBY, I don’t believe this is necessarily the case. The most which can be said with certainty is that he’d assumed the identity of Vader by that time, but the injuries which put him in the suit could’ve still occurred later.

Channel72 said:

Superweapon VII said:

I’ve come across a few posts from folks who claim that K. W. Jeter’s The Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy references the Clone Wars. Specifically, that the majority of Mandalorians disappeared from the known galaxy at the end of the wars, their fleet making a blind hyperspace jump into the unknown. None of them cited their sources, though, which is frustrating.

That’s the coolest idea ever. So naturally, it didn’t happen in any canonical material.

In one of the Archie Goodwin/Al Williamson strips, the builders of the Massassi Temples were shown to have left Yavin IV for another galaxy, leaving the Night Beast behind in stasis. As TOTJ would later reveal, the Night Beast was a mutated Massassi warrior created by Exar Kun, meaning it was his Sith followers who left for another galaxy. I can easily imagine these Mandalorian refugees ended up fleeing to that very same galaxy and encountering the descendants of Kun’s Sith, perhaps joining forces.

So many possibilities, and we end up with Jar Jar Binks and Leia Poppins.

Some more Star Wars Timelines from before the Prequels, just for some nostalgia and fun:
 

“Time Line Of Important Events In The Star Wars Galaxy”, from the 1994 book ‘A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition, Revised and Expanded’:
 

^ from https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/A_Guide_to_the_Star_Wars_Universe,_Second_Edition,_Revised_and_Expanded

“Star Wars Timeline from 1994”, from Star Wars Insider #23:
 

“Star Wars Timeline from 1997”, for the “Dark Force Rising” comics.
 

Edit:

The Star Wars Timeline Gold by Nathan P Butler: 5 downloadable pdf files covering different aspects of the Star Wars Timeline

https://starwarsfanworks.com/timeline (final edition was in 2018)
 

1. Story Group Canon Timeline
2. Legends Timeline, Vol. 1 (Pre-ANH, Minus Clone Wars)
3. Legends Timeline, Vol. 2 (ANH and Beyond)
4. Legends Clone Wars Supplement
5. Appendices

^ The Legends Timeline Vol. 2 is relevant here; there are 426 pages of the Timeline just to get to 100BBY. Comprehensive.

The timeline for TOTJ is interesting. Ten years between Golden Age and Fall of the Sith Empire; six years between The Freedon Nadd Uprising and Dark Lords of the Sith; three years between Dark Lords and The Sith War. Taking the comics at complete face value, a ten-year gap between Golden Age and Fall isn’t at all plausible. But perhaps this is an indicator that these stories were conceived as heavily condensed retellings of historical events rather than accurate reports. Shame the creators who came after Veitch and KJA failed to read between the lines.

Channel72 said:

Well, I think it depends on what question we’re actually asking here. Is it theoretically possible - given only the info in the OT - that the Empire was much older than 20 years in ANH? Sure, it’s possible. There are many ways to write the backstory this way, as suggested in this thread, including but not limited to: (1) Vader was secretly evil for decades before giving birth to Luke, or (2) it wasn’t a secret and Mrs. Skywalker openly supported Vader’s murderous purge, or (3) there were other Jedi-killers before Vader, or (4) Luke and Leia were cryogenically frozen for some unspecified time period, etc. etc.

But none of those possibilities are the most straightforward, natural interpretation of the OT. The most natural interpretation is probably just the Empire was only 19 years old.

Or rather, with only ANH in mind, perhaps the Empire was substantially older. But with all three Original Trilogy films, the most natural conclusion is the Empire is the same age as Luke. Yes, it’s possible to come up with ways to extend the length, but they all involve “multiplying extra entities beyond necessity”, which makes William of Occam very sad.

Yeah, Vader being Luke’s father ruined a much more interesting (possible) timeline. I always liked the idea of multiple Clone Wars over a 30 year period that essentially caused the end of the Golden Age of The Republic. Obi-wan is 90 years old in SW77, having fought as a young Jedi in the last Clone War - which ended 50 years prior.

The Empire first exiled all Jedi, but they plotted to Restore the Republic so (with the help of Vader) they are eliminated. Anakin, Mrs. Skywalker, and Obi are on the run for many years in the Outer Rim territories; which fell out of Republic control during the Clone Wars and are only now being re-integrated into The Empire.

Eventually Vader catches up to Anakin and the two duel near a “molten pit”. Anakin is killed and Vader horribly wounded. The Force keeps Vader alive long enough for him to get “suited up” as we see him in SW77. Obi-wan goes into permanent exile on his home planet of Tatooine with Anakin’s son, Luke. Nothing is heard of him until SW77, so The Empire assumes he has died of natural causes. Since anyone can use the Force with training there is nothing special about Luke so he really isn’t being hidden from The Empire…although Obi dreams of restoring The Republic still.

William of Ockham is a bitch. There, I said it.