Heir to the Empire Trilogy. A General Discussion

What do we like about what is widely regarded as the Unofficial Sequel Trilogy? What do we dislike?

I like them a lot. I think Zahn nailed the characters; I can hear the voices of the original actors.He created great villains in Thrawn and C’Baoth without just giving us another boring Darkside user.He did not try to write a screenplay - these are novels that were written as novels; not intended to be made into films. He Gave Wedge some serious “screentime”.

A minor gripe was that he created 12 Grand Admirals other than Thrawn - all military geniuses. But we of course never see them in the films. And he left their fates for others to figure out The EU never really was able explain what they were doing during The Battle of Endor to my satisfaction.

I love how Zahn writes the OT characters. He fleshes them out so much and shows how they’ve grown and matured since the OT. Luke feels lost and unsure of himself, but is still a compassionate hero. Han is adjusting to life as a husband and future father. I love Leia’s whole mystery plot surrounding the Noghri. I love Mara Jade and Talon Karrde. I like the political intrigue with Fey’lya, though Fey’lya really pissed me off, which seemed to be the intent. I like Joruus C’baoth a lot and think the concept of an embittered “mad Jedi” makes for a great post-RotJ villain. I love Thrawn and Pellaeon’s whole dynamic and relationship, though Thrawn’s genius becomes a little unbelievable at times. I love how the space battles are written in a way that feels like they’re actual battles. And I love how problems in the story are solved through brains and creativity rather than just through brute force.

In terms of tone and plot, it feels like a natural continuation of the OT, though if they had been adapted into movies, they would’ve had to be trimmed down and streamlined a lot.

A really good trilogy. I’d like to reread it soon.

Servii said:

I love how Zahn writes the OT characters. He fleshes them out so much and shows how they’ve grown and matured since the OT. Luke feels lost and unsure of himself, but is still a compassionate hero. Han is adjusting to life as a husband and future father. I love Leia’s whole mystery plot surrounding the Noghri. I love Mara Jade and Talon Karrde. I like the political intrigue with Fey’lya, though Fey’lya really pissed me off, which seemed to be the intent. I like Joruus C’baoth a lot and think the concept of an embittered “mad Jedi” makes for a great post-RotJ villain. I love Thrawn and Pellaeon’s whole dynamic and relationship, though Thrawn’s genius becomes a little unbelievable at times. I love how the space battles are written in a way that feels like they’re actual battles. And I love how problems in the story are solved through brains and creativity rather than just through brute force.

In terms of tone and plot, it feels like a natural continuation of the OT, though if they had been adapted into movies, they would’ve had to be trimmed down and streamlined a lot.

A really good trilogy. I’d like to reread it soon.

Never want these to be adapted into film or TV. A lot of the stuff that would be cut out is what makes these books so good. Agree that Thrawn is a little OP at times. Yeah, the new characters he introduces compliment the originals beautifully. Mara Jade becomes a Mary Sue later unfortunately.

I consider the Thrawn trilogy really good fanfiction. Now, I’ve gotta emphasis “really good” over “fanfiction”. I think Zahn fell short with his description of how ysalamari powers work, not to mention inclusion of the Luuke clone and the improbable survival of Anakin’s lightsaber, but the pros far outnumber the cons in my book.

I’ll forever consider Zahn’s Clone Wars the real Clone Wars over Lucas’.

BedeHistory731 said:

As far as adaptations go, did anybody read the Dark Horse comic versions or listen to the Marc Thompson audiobooks?

I’m planning to listen to the Thompson audiobooks soon. I already listened to the Hand of Thrawn duology, and that was really well done.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

JadedSkywalker said:

Hated Mara saying she didn’t believe the emperor reborn was Palpatine, that was Zahn taking a shot of Veitch.

I don’t know much about the early EU and how it came about past Veitch’s Dark Empire being originally wrote and set before Zahn’s Thrawn trilogy, but it got turned around somewhere along the lines by Lucasfilm or the publishers? Was there some disagreements or bad blood between the two writers?

Or was it more of friendly jibes and banter type of thing?

Zahn hated the idea of Palpatine returning, so refused to reference the events of Dark Empire in his trilogy. I don’t know what Zahn thought about Veitch personally, but he definitely wasn’t a fan of his story.

I’ve been watching the “Episode IX: Duel Of The Fates” fan made comics and animated films lately, and I’ve really enjoyed them. So I am now giving Crimson Empire and Zahn’s original Thrawn trilogy a watch too. If anyone else is interested in these:

The Thrawn Trilogy: Motion Comic | nathan S

63 video playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlKJO4D2BftV-zZFT7gtxJt9VfT2MsQIM
 

"It’s five years after the Rebel Alliance destroyed the Death Star, defeated Darth Vader and the Emperor, and drove the remnants of the old Imperial Starfleet to a distant corner of the galaxy. Princess Leia and Han Solo are married and expecting Jedi twins. And Luke Skywalker has become the first in a long-awaited line of Jedi Knights.

But thousands of light-years away, the last of the Emperor’s warlords, Grand Admiral Thrawn, has taken command of the shattered Imperial fleet, readied it for war, and pointed it at the fragile heart of the New Republic. For this dark warrior has made two vital discoveries that could destroy everything the courageous men and women of the Rebel Alliance fought so hard to build."

Nathan S also has a Star Wars animated comic website with more EU content available, that is not on YouTube (for free): https://nlstrong.wixsite.com/starwarsmotioncomic

The other Heir To Empire fan-made adaptation on here looks really promising too:

Heir to the Empire - animated fan film series adaptation (up on youtube) - thread by szopman
 

szopman said:

Hello guys,

I dunno if you already saw it on YouTube (I didn’t see any thread here dedicated to it), but there’s a guy that has been doing for one year now an animated CGI movie adaptation of the Heir to the Empire.
 

‘Star Wars: Heir to the Empire - Chapter 1’:-

https://youtu.be/dgRbUd9xil0 - a 7 minute video at the DarthAngelus youtube channel

DarthAngelus’ Heir To The Empire video playlist: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIXGhtpYcgXdpREUecruJR1Yy3h8w4d-s

A live orchestra performance for some original music inspired on the Heir To The Empire trilogy novels, after the main Star Wars theme has played, of course!

Composed and conducted by Arturo Díez Boscovich, with The Malaga Philarmonic Orchestra, at the MOSMA Festival:
 

Heir to the Empire symphonic poem. Music by Arturo Diez Boscovich (Subtitles) | Arturo Díez Boscovich

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqnZxxW68Sw | 20 minutes

I like Mara Jade, I like the action that goes down on Myrkyr, Wayland, and Sluis Van, I liked certain things about Thrawn, and I think Zahn did an excellent job at replicating the characterizations of the OT heroes, as well as replicating the feel at certain scenes.

But beyond these things, I’m one of the few who didn’t really enjoy the trilogy as a whole. Heir to the Empire is great, but every time I try to reread Dark Force Rising I just get extremely bored. I remember liking The Last Command, it’s just that second book is hard for me to get through.

I don’t care at all for Karrde or the smugglers. They just never interested me, though I admit I do like the idea of a secret operation on Myrkr. Sometimes the trilogy leans a bit too much into the militaristic sci-fi aspect for my taste also.

I’ll try to reread the trilogy as a whole one day.

They were good. Felt like a logical extension of the original trilogy, especially compared to stuff like Darksaber or The Crystal Star.

I liked that Leia was a politician in it. Luke felt like Luke. Han felt like Han.

Mara Jade’s a cool character. I have mixed thoughts on the expanded universe (at least the parts I’ve read, I’ll admit my knowledge of it is pretty limited), but she’s definitely one of the best characters to come out of it.

I’m gonna be honest, at first I didn’t really get the big deal with Thrawn. Now I get it. He was a different type of villain than what we usually got. A more smart and calculating villain.

Also, The Last Command I thought they kind of dropped the ball with the story. The whole Luke having an evil clone plot point (and that they got the DNA from his severed hand) I thought was pretty stupid. Especially the fact they named him Luuke. That was dumb.

But overall, I thought they were decent. Not great, but good. I can see why Timothy Zahn’s considered one of the better EU writers.

philraid said:

Also, The Last Command I thought they kind of dropped the ball with the story. The whole Luke having an evil clone plot point (and that they got the DNA from his severed hand) I thought was pretty stupid. Especially the fact they named him Luuke. That was dumb.

Ah… the weirdness of 90’s EU.

It’s definitely true that TLC is the weakest of the three, and the clone stuff just isn’t as good as it isn’t to be.

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

philraid said:

Also, The Last Command I thought they kind of dropped the ball with the story. The whole Luke having an evil clone plot point (and that they got the DNA from his severed hand) I thought was pretty stupid. Especially the fact they named him Luuke. That was dumb.

Ah… the weirdness of 90’s EU.

Doesn’t hold a candle to the weirdness of '80s EU.

I’m a little apprehensive on how they are going to redo, or riff on, Heir To The Empire for the end of the Mandoverse and ‘climactic story event’ that will probably be Dave Filoni’s New Republic theatrical film.

Riffing on the EU is something they seem to do quite a bit since the Prequel films, to varying degrees, but this feels like a big step re-treading and re-working something so big, loved and respected from the books.

I can see myself having to separating the two HTTEs, in my own head-canon, if they screw this up.

Mocata said:

Superweapon VII said:

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

philraid said:

Also, The Last Command I thought they kind of dropped the ball with the story. The whole Luke having an evil clone plot point (and that they got the DNA from his severed hand) I thought was pretty stupid. Especially the fact they named him Luuke. That was dumb.

Ah… the weirdness of 90’s EU.

Doesn’t hold a candle to the weirdness of '80s EU.

(image)

Jeez

Not gonna lie. I want Rule 34 artists to discover this thing and pair it with the Sarlacc. Obscene Jar Jar pron can only take me so far into hysterics.

Superweapon VII said:

Doesn’t hold a candle to the weirdness of '80s EU.

You know what, you’re right. That takes the cake.

Okay, so last time I commented here with my thoughts on the trilogy, I had only read them once years ago. (Except for Heir, which I’d read three times.) Well, I re-read them all a little bit ago and am just now remembering to share my thoughts. I meant to do this earlier but didn’t get to it.

I still think Mara Jade is the best thing to come from the trilogy. She is a great character, and to me she stands out far beyond Thrawn.

Dark Force Rising, which I always had trouble re-reading, was more enjoyable than I remember. I always struggled getting through it, but it really does pay off. It might also be the most grounded of the three based on what I remember.

Characterization of the OT heroes is on point. Zahn did a great job capturing them. Luke doesn’t feel overpowered either, which is great.

I am not the biggest fan of ysalamiri or Jedi clones. Having Luke fight his own clone feels a little cheap. I can get over it though. Zahn’s choice to have the clones be unstable and deranged makes it acceptable enough.

Absolutely NOT a fan of Zahn explaining away the cave on Dagobah.

Overall, a fair enough trilogy.

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

Absolutely NOT a fan of Zahn explaining away the cave on Dagobah.

I wasn’t bothered by the backstory, but I loathed Zahn making Luke’s vision a premonition of his duel with the Luuke clone. It’s one of those aspects that makes Zahn’s otherwise solid writing feel like cheap fanfic.