logo Sign In

***The MeBeJedi feedback thread *** — Page 8

Author
Time
Post link
Hmm... some strong opinions here.

I think it's important to keep in mind that those of us doing these captures are doing it primarily for ourselves. OK so some of us are happy to share our finished projects with the wider fan community, that makes it fair game for constructive criticism regarding the quality of transfer, but you cannot criticise someone for their personal preferences.

If MeBe and Zion will be happier sitting down to watch their DVDs knowing that they have fixed some of the shots, then that's completely acceptable.

Personally, I fall into the DanielB "purist" category. I will limit my transfers to noise filtering only, I will not be fixing dodgy effects shots, creating a remastered 5.1 soundtrack or changing the Death Star scene so the stormtrooper no longer hits his head on the door

Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here

Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here

Author
Time
Post link
mebejedi said

To compare such changes to the monstronsity that is the SE's is just flat-out ludicrous.


I take it you are referring to the SE changes and not the fact it was cleaned up and sharpened? I think its admirable that someone is willing to go through it all frame by frame and clean it up a la lowry has done. If I was still single, then yeah, I'd probably invest the time and do that myself, however, wife politics precludes that for me.

with that in mind, the more I look at this as a project. the more I am leaning towards the following.

keep my NTSC's as they are, they are after all the original film and just finish a slight color correction and sharpen and remove jaggies.

then with PAL DVD's de SE the DVD so that I have a version that is really sharp but re color correct it from the abortion that was lucasfilms judgement. somehow I might be able to get 5.1 sound + PCM track + standard stereo and then put all that on a dual layer disc with moving menus etc.

When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Just thought I'd let you folks know. The first third is almost done (I'm on Luke and Co. entering Mos Eisley.) Hopefully, I will have this segment up as an XVID for you folks to see and judge my progress.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Let me explain this to you Mebejedi, and Zion. Editing work is censoring it. David Lynch directed Dune right? He's credited as director for the Theatrical version - even though it isn't exactly how he wanted it. But you won't find him credited on the 3-hour TV version, because Lynch was opposed to it. So rather than saying "so bloody what, we made the theatrical version the way we wanted over you, we're going to do it again" - they said "yes, okay we'll acknowledge that this isn't your movie". I mean how capatalistic would it be to destroy the thatrical print and then just make available the 3-hour tv version?

I like director's cuts. Made from the original material. Anything else is re-making the movie peice by peice no matter how small. Although Lucas would probably argue that his original theatrical versions are not unauthorised versions, they are still the orignal authorized versions. You are just creating different unauthorised versions, like the tv version of dune. Except that it was an authorised version since it was made by the owner (studio). How can you cherish originality in edited forms? I know that the 1993/1995 LD's aren't theatrical - but at least they were made only from original material.
Author
Time
Post link
And one last thing. This site has a petetion for an unaltered release of the classic trilogy. How on earth do you further your cause for that by creating edited trilogies? If that's what you give yourself, well of course that's what Lucas is going to give you. He can't give you something you clearly don't really want anyway.
Author
Time
Post link
I have to agree. I'm no longer interested in MeBe's or Zion's projects, now that I know they will be edited. I'll just wait for Moth3r's set now.
Author
Time
Post link


Well, I for one can't wait to get my hands on Zions and MBJ versions. Do you guys have any idea when the project will be completed?

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

Author
Time
Post link
Fine, guys. You've made your desires known, so go complain in someone else's thread. See ya.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
This site has a petetion for an unaltered release of the classic trilogy. How on earth do you further your cause for that by creating edited trilogies? If that's what you give yourself, well of course that's what Lucas is going to give you. He can't give you something you clearly don't really want anyway.

Well for one thing, I never signed the petition. But that's another story and I won't get into it here.

I have no problem with you losing interest in our transfers. But to say that we're "censoring" these films is just ludicrous. I really wouldn't call fixing a couple crappy saber shots "censoring," but if that's what you want to call it be my guest.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author
Time
Post link
Whereas I wouldn't mind a "warts and all" offical release of the OT on DVD (considering that we've been given a "warts and all" release of the 2004 Special Edition) I really have to wonder about what some people are getting out of Star Wars when they complain about matte lines or bad saber shots NOT being present. I mean, do some people really sit around watching the trilogy and when vader's saber is seen to be white through the blast doors, scream out "Yayyyyyyy!!!!! THERE IT ISSSSSS!!!!! HOOOOOOOORAYYYYYYY" ?

Kinda missing the point there. Changing character arcs is bad. Even changing out old FX shots for entirely new ones is revisionist at best (though they don't personally offend me). Fixing simple rotoscoping errors is something totally different. Had Lucas released the O-OT with stuff like the mattes and sabers fixed but nothing else, there might *might* be a hundred people on earth who would get worked up over it. Most of them are on this forum.

Compared to the thousands upon thousands who care about the O-OT not being released in any form (cleaned up or grainy), there is clearly a threshold. Lucas is so far on one side of it, he can't see it. Same goes for certain others on the opposite side of the issue.

I haven't heard my earlier points addressed. What about that "Episode IV: A New Hope" being tacked on to the title crawl? That's not clearly causing certain forum member's panties to get in a twist. But it is a change from the original release of Star Wars. Everybody has their own threshold, and the vast majority seem to want a restoration of the version seen on the DE or Faces laserdiscs. If five frames of saber FX are corrected, what is the BFD? Don't like it? Follow the guides for captures being offered on this site (and others) and do your own f'ing captures. That's what's great about partcipants like MBJ and Zion and MVerta. They're doing this restoration out of a labor of love and are sharing most (if not all) of their secrets openly to provide a map for others to follow suit.

Remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
Author
Time
Post link
Well when are we going to see some of this restoration, because the images on the screenshots thread look crap, worse than the old Asian version.
Author
Time
Post link
Crap, eh? Thanks for the specifics. Really helpful, there. Oh, I forgot...you have a beef with my version, too...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Hello

Personally, I want to see them all. I may decide I do not like this one or that one, but I am interested in viewing them all. Offer me the version with only the lint/dirt removed, or a version with the mattes cleaned up, or a version with colour uniformity, or a version straight from filmstock with cig burns in the corner et al.

I thank MeBeJedi, Zion, Moth3r, and everybody who creates the OT versions, as well as those who distribute them. 'Tis all wonderfully interesting and fun
Thank you!

Author
Time
Post link
Welcome to the boards, Consumer X, and thanks for being a newbie with a positive first post. You've been rare in coming these days.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
Author
Time
Post link
consumer_x

Welcome home!

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

Author
Time
Post link
Well, for those of you who still give a shit, the first third is done. I'm compiling the MPEG right now, and will have some screenshots. I will try to make a few XVIDs as well, depending on how big they are (though again, at least two people won't bother themselves to look at them, right?)

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
I still give a shit!

Troy

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

Author
Time
Post link
Well DanielB, you really do seem to feel very very passionate about the trilogy being preserved as is, it seems to be an extremely important issue to you.
My advice is that you go get a laserdisc player, and a faces set and start on your own project. It would be welcomed with open arms I am sure.
People that are truly passionate about things get in and take some action and do it. People that don't really have it, sit back and wish their lives away. It often means sacrifices of time, money etc. but that is what true passion and belief is all about. So step up to the plate, and add another release to the mix, we will all be very excited to see it, and there are many here that share your view of how it should be, so get in there!

Mebe, glad to hear you are making progress, betchya never thought it was going to be this big a job when you started out?
Author
Time
Post link
You're telling me.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
Warning: The following material may offend some people. It contains well thought-out arguments against selfish capitalistic censorship, and should be read with extreme caution. The material in this post will challenge what you strongly believe in, and may change your mind on something which was very important to you.

Zion. Let Me Put It This Way: IF I had a picasso, the original painting and I've kept it preserved for art lovers to see, would it be right of me to "fix the part that bothered me"?

Would that be preserving Picasso's work? More To The Point: Would it be preserving the painting?

Enid Blyton was the author of Noddy. She has since passed away. Her work should have been preserved, instead it was edited to "make it better" by the capitalistic censoring morons who thought having the Golliwog character in it was raciest. Alright, fine. If YOU wrote the noddy books TODAY you would do it differently, but these were written at a DIFFERNT time in a DIFFERENT culture, and right or wrong her work shouldn't be censored.

That what this is about, it's not about what specific changes you want to make. If you want to make your own specific version like MagnoliaFan - go for gold, make it into your own artistic take of the Star Wars Trilogy - however THAT does not preserve the original trilogy and neither does this. Just like me painting a collage of Picasso paintings into one doesn't preserve Picasso's work, it's just my own inventive input made using his creations.

ADigitalMan, to answer your question. Do people look at original art for any particular reason? Why do people look at picassos rather than MY IMPROVED "picasso paintings"? Are you telling me, if Picasso painted a dull looking picture, and I made it look better you would prefer to look at my version of it rather than picasso's original?

"Episode IV: A New Hope" is not a MAJOR concern for two main reasons. The first is that it was released theatrically in that form before the entire trilogy was completed, and the second is that Lucas did honestly intended it that way from the beginning.

LD Man I don't have the time or the resources to make that option viable right now. Though I would like to, we don't get everything we want - and we can't do everything we want to ourselves. As I've said before, no painting is perfect, we don't want them to be and we shouldn't change them to be so. They reflect something about that time, they capture a presence. As do movies. Do you want to watch the Elephant Man as it is, as it was made Theatrically - or do you want to watch an "improved" colourized version? Do you want to watch the original Terminator with all-new improved digital effects? Do you want to watch The Star Wars Trilogy with all new digital effects?

Well, it seems that you do. As does MeBeJedi and Zion. You all want brand new digital effects, so long as YOU are in control of them. So much for respecting originality. And the only difference between you and Lucas is the choices you make with the digital changes. I'll now share with you consequences of censoring work:

  • Jehova Witnesses exist because they read from censored scripture.
  • Enid Blyton's Noddy books were censored after her death.
  • In South Korea they thought "The Sound of Music" was too long, so they censored it by removing all the songs.
  • RPC (Region Protection Control) exists to limit consumers ability to play back legally acquired material.
  • In many countries governments control the media.
  • Censorship is who people are when they aren't themselves.

    Notice yet how it is capitalistic? I'm not the bad guy. The censors are.
    • Author
    Time
    Post link
    @danielb

    I see what you're saying Dan, but I also think there is a valid case for the work mebejedi is doing. personally, it's too mind numbing for me to envisage doing, kudos for him to go through the film and erase dirt. (psssst...mebe, when you're done I'll send a hard drive, copy me over your cleaned but as yet unadjusted or color corrected interim file. ta )

    I think your both right in different ways.

    danielb, preservation of the original version as it was shot, as it was made. admirable. I'm doing it myself as you know. but coming to this forum has also opened my eyes to other possibilities.

    the SE fixed various fx goofs from the original. example, digitally recompositing the space battle. forget the CGI, I'm talking about the actual original fx shots.

    good example, the explosions of the ywings in the trench attack. the explosions are more vibrant and more full because all of it is there and is no longer comped out. For me, that is a restoration, not an alteration, not a self imposed edit.

    same goes for vaders sabre pole in the docking bay when they escape. it was missed from the original movie due to time constraints. for it to be fixed is to sort a continuity error that in todays movie world, wouldn't really be missed.

    the fact mebejedi is spending the time to re-rotoscope the sabres I think falls into this category.

    he's not altering the film, what he is doing is fixing a few of the technical errors that crept into the films.

    so, by a certain point of view, you're both right. there is a place for both visions here.
    When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

    http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
    Author
    Time
    Post link
    "Warning: The following material may offend some people. It contains well thought-out arguments against selfish capitalistic censorship, and should be read with extreme caution. The material in this post will challenge what you strongly believe in, and may change your mind on something which was very important to you."

    You know what, DanielB? IT DOESN'T MATTER!

    First of all, "capitalistic censorship"?!? I was going to put these on MySpleen, you moron.

    Secondly, you are not going to change my mind or transfer in any way, shape or form. I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. What's the point, since I'm going to make my transfer MY way. If YOU don't like it, too bad, BUT DON'T COME IN HERE BITCHING AND WHINING BECAUSE YOU AREN'T GETTING THE VERSION YOU WANT! Lucas didn't give me the version I wanted, so I'm investing my own time and money to satisfy myself. You, on the other hand, are having a temper tantrum (over 5 frames of lightsaber touch-ups that can't be seen at normal speed, I might add), and mistakenly believe it's going to make any difference whatsoever. At this point, all you are doing is embarassing yourself and raising your post count.

    For all your talk of "censorship", I can't get over how much you are trying to censor my version. If you continue to troll and spam in my thread, I will contact Jay about your behavior. Post in a thread, like Moth3r's, that has a version you want.

    Better yet, if you want to rally against the "evils" of censorship in the SW films, make your own thread. It's off topic here. "Move along, move along".

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
    <span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
    <span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

    Author
    Time
    Post link
    Hello

    I was going to put these on MySpleen


    Just for my own sake of clarification, because your usage of the past-tense ("was") concerns me, will you still please place them on myspleen when they are completed?

    thanks!
    Author
    Time
    Post link
    Sorry...yes, they will still be put on Myspleen. Didn't mean to freak you out there.

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
    <span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
    <span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

    <span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>