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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 467

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Snoke is a hologram not a force projection.

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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NeverarGreat said:

I think Luke’s death would have worked if it felt in any way inevitable. I remember watching it for the first time and thinking ‘Oh that’s neat, Luke made an illusion so that he could live’, and then he goes and dies immediately afterwards. Sure, it’s established that Rey would die if she projected herself across the galaxy, but Snoke can do it without breaking a sweat so it just makes Luke canonically no more powerful than Rey and weaker than Snoke, a guy who dies in one of the most embarrassing ways imaginable.

It’s basically my problem with Anakin Skywalker being a “Chosen One”.

We’re constantly told how special Anakin is and how strong he is in the Force but he never does anything out of the ordinary in terms of using the Force. He doesn’t stand out from any other Force wielder who came before.

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fmalover said:

NeverarGreat said:

I think Luke’s death would have worked if it felt in any way inevitable. I remember watching it for the first time and thinking ‘Oh that’s neat, Luke made an illusion so that he could live’, and then he goes and dies immediately afterwards. Sure, it’s established that Rey would die if she projected herself across the galaxy, but Snoke can do it without breaking a sweat so it just makes Luke canonically no more powerful than Rey and weaker than Snoke, a guy who dies in one of the most embarrassing ways imaginable.

It’s basically my problem with Anakin Skywalker being a “Chosen One”.

We’re constantly told how special Anakin is and how strong he is in the Force but he never does anything out of the ordinary in terms of using the Force. He doesn’t stand out from any other Force wielder who came before.

How much better would it have been if none of the Force powers displayed in the OT (aside from the ones demonstrated by Ben in ANH) were used in the PT, except by Anakin. Then the “Chosen One” angle would’ve felt more organic.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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I was thinking the other day about the final scene of ANH, particularly how it might be treated in an Andor-style show set just after ANH.

I’ve always assumed that the medal ceremony was a great way to end a film but a terrible decision from an in-universe tactical viewpoint, but actually it could serve a critical propaganda role. If that ceremony were broadcast out into the universe, it would send the message that not only did the Rebel Alliance destroy the Death Star, but it was destroyed by just a single lowly pilot with the aid of his friends. Furthermore, the Alliance feels so confident in their victory that they are willing to remain at their base even as the Empire moves to regroup and strike back.

I can imagine a Nemik-style manifesto inspired by this:

“And so in a single brilliant flash worlds across the despairing galaxy saw something impossible; not the quarreling factions of the so-called Alliance, but a vision of unity. A farmhand, a smuggler, a Wookiee, even two lowly droids, standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the leaders of the Rebel Alliance and a Senator of the assassinated Old Republic. This was the real coup that turned Imperial blood to ice. The loss of their superweapon was a blow to the Empire’s materiel and money…but this vision of unity in the face of annihilation obliterated their thesis of order, the crucible of their unassailable power.”

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Pre 1999 Yoda: Spiritual guru living in harmony with nature.

Post 1999 Yoda: Deadbeat father and military leader of a child-kidnapping cult who advocates for book burning.

I don’t think it is a contradiction, rather just character development. That is, Yoda became what he was before 1999 because he learned from the mistakes he made in post-1999 media. For example: yes, in Empire Strikes Back he says that war makes no one great. But why he says that? Because he made a lot of mistakes, and by participating in the Clone Wars he learned first hand that war his shit and makes no one great.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

NeverarGreat said:

Pre 1999 Yoda: Spiritual guru living in harmony with nature.

Post 1999 Yoda: Deadbeat father and military leader of a child-kidnapping cult who advocates for book burning.

I don’t think it is a contradiction, rather just character development. That is, Yoda became what he was before 1999 because he learned from the mistakes he made in post-1999 media. For example: yes, in Empire Strikes Back he says that war makes no one great. But why he says that? Because he made a lot of mistakes, and by participating in the Clone Wars he learned first hand that war his shit and makes no one great.

I think Lucas himself kind of debunked that. He said that Yoda couldn’t really have done anything different. He was just manipulated into a no-win situation.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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I think Lucas himself kind of debunked that. He said that Yoda couldn’t really have done anything different. He was just manipulated into a no-win situation.

Yes, because Lucas has a fetish for the Jedi, so the Jedi can’t be wrong and saint Yoda is always right, especially when… well… he tells you to just do nothing but be happy when people around you dies.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

I think Lucas himself kind of debunked that. He said that Yoda couldn’t really have done anything different. He was just manipulated into a no-win situation.

Yes, because Lucas has a fetish for the Jedi, so the Jedi can’t be wrong and saint Yoda is always right, especially when… well… he tells you to just do nothing but be happy when people around you dies.

Not saying I agree with Lucas. Just saying it wasn’t an intentional character arc.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Servii said:

Spartacus01 said:

I think Lucas himself kind of debunked that. He said that Yoda couldn’t really have done anything different. He was just manipulated into a no-win situation.

Yes, because Lucas has a fetish for the Jedi, so the Jedi can’t be wrong and saint Yoda is always right, especially when… well… he tells you to just do nothing but be happy when people around you dies.

Not saying I agree with Lucas. Just saying it wasn’t an intentional character arc.

Yes, I know you don’t agree with him haha. Well, I think that even if it’s not an intentional character arc, it’s still a nice way to see It.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

Servii said:

Spartacus01 said:

I think Lucas himself kind of debunked that. He said that Yoda couldn’t really have done anything different. He was just manipulated into a no-win situation.

Yes, because Lucas has a fetish for the Jedi, so the Jedi can’t be wrong and saint Yoda is always right, especially when… well… he tells you to just do nothing but be happy when people around you dies.

Not saying I agree with Lucas. Just saying it wasn’t an intentional character arc.

Yes, I know you don’t agree with him haha. Well, I think that even if it’s not an intentional character arc, it’s still a nice way to see It.

Yeah, I think so, too.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Those crazy pressed Bootleg DVDs! There were a ton of those and I even had the Five Star Collection DVD Bootlegs, was the 1997 Special Edition versions but LD to DVD and not scanning film, prior to the 2004 Original Trilogy DVDs, 2004 version of course for that. Didn’t have any of the other pressed bootlegs besides that one.
http://www.swonvideo.com/
Interesting!

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Sometimes it seems to me that the different categories of Star Wars fans find themselves arguing about non-existing problems. I mean, the fandom and the Saga are big enough to accommodate everyone’s opinion. But despite this, we find ourselves having endless arguments among the fans when it’s absolutely not necessary, as there are simple solutions that can satisfy everyone.

For example: if you don’t like the Sequels, then there is the EU; if you don’t like either of them, then there are a lot of fanfictions that can replace both. If you don’t like the Prequels, then there are a lot of fanfictions and rewrites out there, or maybe you can create something on your own; if you like the ideas but not the execution, then there are the novelizations. If you don’t like TCW, then there is the Multimedia Project; if you don’t like either of them, then there are a lot of fanfictions that can replace both. If you like the EU but not the current Canon, then just ignore the current Canon, just pretend it doesn’t exist; if you don’t like either of them, then again, there are a lot of fanfictions that can replace both.

There’s a ton of simple solutions that can satisfy everyone, and make everyone happy. But despite that, it seems that people don’t care, it almost seems that people like to attack each other for no reason. I don’t understand that…

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

For example: if you don’t like the Sequels, then there is the EU; if you don’t like either of them, then there are a lot of fanfictions that can replace both. If you don’t like the Prequels, then there are a lot of fanfictions and rewrites out there, or maybe you can create something on your own; if you like the ideas but not the execution, then there are the novelizations. If you don’t like TCW, then there is the Multimedia Project; if you don’t like either of them, then there are a lot of fanfictions that can replace both. If you like the EU but not the current Canon, then just ignore the current Canon, just pretend it doesn’t exist; if you don’t like either of them, then again, there are a lot of fanfictions that can replace both.

But what if you don’t like fanfiction? 😛

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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I just finished watching 4K80 and 4K83 back-to-back. I wondered beforehand whether watching RotJ right after ESB would make RotJ look bad by comparison, but it didn’t. In fact, it made me realize how well those two films go together. ESB is dark and gloomy and claustrophobic and full of setbacks for the heroes. RotJ is lighter and goofier and has everything fall into place by the end. It’s a kind of reprieve after the events of Empire. I think the trilogy needed that.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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The despecialized version of Return of the Jedi fits better with the rest of the old EU than any of the subsequent Special Editions. I personally don’t like the idea of a victory celebration all across the Galaxy. As we know through the EU, the Battle of Endor didn’t mean the total defeat of the Empire in the entire Galaxy, but simply the turning point in the fight against the Empire. In fact, after Endor the Empire still had control of many of the most important planets, including Coruscant and Naboo. Thus, seeing a victory celebration on those two planets makes no sense, because they were still in Imperial hands and the Rebellion had not yet totally won the war. So, I think it would be better to circumscribe the celebration on Endor without showing any other celebration in the Galaxy. Therefore, Yub Nub is a necessary evil that I’m willing to accept for a matter of consistency with the rest of the EU.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

The despecialized version of Return of the Jedi fits better with the rest of the old EU than any of the subsequent Special Editions. I personally don’t like the idea of a victory celebration all across the Galaxy. As we know through the EU, the Battle of Endor didn’t mean the total defeat of the Empire in the entire Galaxy, but simply the turning point in the fight against the Empire. In fact, after Endor the Empire still had control of many of the most important planets, including Coruscant and Naboo. Thus, seeing a victory celebration on those two planets makes no sense, because they were still in Imperial hands and the Rebellion had not yet totally won the war. So, I think it would be better to circumscribe the celebration on Endor without showing any other celebration in the Galaxy. Therefore, Yub Nub is a necessary evil that I’m willing to accept for a matter of consistency with the rest of the EU.

Yeah, I’ve always preferred the old ending for that reason. It’s more open to interpretation about what happens next. The new ending wraps things up almost too neatly, implying that the war is over, when it shouldn’t be.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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I thoroughly dislike the galactic celebration, though I did like how the EU rolled with it; with the celebrants on Coruscant being rounded up and put before firing squads.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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I think a lot of Star Wars fans online are very insecure or have persecution complexes about which films they like. Many of them don’t handle criticism well. When someone else says something negative about their preferred film or show or trilogy, they’re unable to just say “Fine, whatever” and move on, or to at least respectfully disagree. They take it personally and go out of their way to make those more critical perspectives seem unwelcome, as though they’re afraid it will “ruin the fun” for them. Every fandom has that problem to some degree, but it seems to be especially bad with Star Wars.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Servii said:

I think a lot of Star Wars fans online are very insecure or have persecution complexes about which films they like. Many of them don’t handle criticism well. When someone else says something negative about their preferred film or show or trilogy, they’re unable to just say “Fine, whatever” and move on. They take it personally and go out of their way to make those more critical perspectives seem unwelcome, as though they’re afraid it will “ruin the fun” for them. Every fandom has that problem to some degree, but it seems to be especially bad with Star Wars.

This right here. I had written something up recently about issues in fandom and this was one of the major points.

Move along, move along.

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So recently I watched the films in the so called “machete-order” (4,5,1,2,3,6), and honestly, I think this is THE best way to watch the films. Return of the Jedi is, as many have already pointed out, not a great follow-up to “Empire”. Yet watching “Return” after “Sith” is honestly super engaging. The opening of “Return” (Obi, Yoda and Luke stuff) gives you a nice recap of what you’ve just seen in the prequels, and it makes a lot of the themes in the series seem super clear. For example, the Ewoks taking down the Empire seems like a wonderful middle finger to the Emperor after seeing how evil he was in the Prequels, but more importantly, the idea of Palpatine manipulating Anakin to turn to the dark side for the sake of saving the people that he loved, is the exact same thing that he tempts Luke with. It also makes Luke seem really smart, but flawed, because he takes the opportunity to grab his saber and strike down the Emperor, to instead, fight Vader and try to convince him to turn to the light. Of course, Vader tempts Luke with the very thing that the Emperor tempted both of them with by threatening to turn Leia to the dark-side. Of course, Luke almost kills Vader, but at the last moment decides to show him mercy and not give into that same fear which got them all into this mess in the first place. In conclusion, the story of redemption becomes abundantly clear when watching the series in this order. I highly recommend!

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of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

I’ll have to try machete order sometime!

I’ve pretty much decided that the “Machete order” is the way I’m going to show my partner Star Wars for the first time. I think I’ve settled on showing her the L8wrtr edits for the prequels…

What do you think, is it appropriate to show a fanedit to a first time viewer of the prequels? I kind of think it’s weird, but necessary. 😂

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Doesn’t machete skip E1?

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

Doesn’t machete skip E1?

I mean since it’s not really such an “official” thing, I feel like it’s really open to interpretation by including or excluding TPM if you prefer. Personally I want to include it.