I think the ending of the Emperor is very ambiguous he falling into the void of the Death Star you dont know if he truly died or teleport to another place in the Galaxy with the EU and Disney Sequel Trilogy making stories of Palpatine surviving i think George main vision was to show that Palpatine truly died in the Death Star 2 i think Vader or Luke should have defeated Palpatine in a duel a visible way that there was no doubt that he had died
Um…I think being thrown down that massive hole/shaft into the bowels of the Death Star which itself was then blown to smithereens is a pretty conclusive “He’s dead” to me.
I personally think that it being Vader who kills the Emperor rather than Luke is brilliant. It not only allows for Vader’s redemption but it also perfectly fits with the Sith “Rule of Two” where the apprentice kills the master. So Vader both embodies the Sith tradition in that moment but the way it happens is undeniably an act of good and sacrifice to save his son. Luke throwing away his lightsaber in defiance of Palpatine was also what Vader needed to see since he himself didn’t have the strength or conviction to do the same back in ROTS.
I think you might find this video interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ
The ST bringing back Palpatine was a huge mistake. I love Ian McDiarmid but Palpatine should have stayed dead. Some say that making Snoke Darth Plagueis was a bit too obvious but I disagree. It would have beautifully tied the ST together with the PT and OT and most fans probably wouldn’t even know or remember a single thing about Darth Plagueis from ROTS. For years there was no doubt in my mind that Palpatine died in ROTJ. I personally didn’t need it to be confirmed any more than what was already on screen.
Considering that Palps had a clone body in TROS, the way he died in ROTJ doesn’t matter.
Killing him differently couldn’t prevent producers and script writers bringing him back by cloning.
Palpatine should’ve lived and gone to jail for his crimes or the rebels are no better than the Empire
Reading R + L ≠ J theories
Considering that Palps had a clone body in TROS, the way he died in ROTJ doesn’t matter.
Killing him differently couldn’t prevent producers and script writers bringing him back by cloning.
I dunno. Can an evil ghost escape the event horizon of a black hole?
“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”
― Leo Tolstoy
Did I think Lucas regrets the way Palpatine died?
Not at all. Why would he? It was the natural end of the story at the time. As Darth Caliban said above, killing the Emperor any differently wouldn’t prevent producers and writers bringing him back years later by cloning or other explanations, simply because they hadn’t planned out later films following on from the story and needed a “big baddie”.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Lucas thought it was a mistake to bring the Emperor back in TROS, and in the way they did it?
The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
Considering that Palps had a clone body in TROS, the way he died in ROTJ doesn’t matter.
Killing him differently couldn’t prevent producers and script writers bringing him back by cloning.
That is kind of a problem in itself, nobody actually dying in Star Wars. It dramatically cheapens the stakes, to the point where some of us are thinking “Oh they brought (insert character) back from the dead now. Sigh I wonder who’ll be next to come back” or “What contrivances are they going to use to bring X back next time?”
Did JJ comment about bringing back Palpatine for TROS in the way he did, cheapening the efforts and and story of the Original Trilogy, just for to have a “big bad” at of the TROS?
Whether it is Lucas changing his mind and bringing characters back (or giving the “okay” to being them back like with Boba and Maul), or Lucasfilm reluctant to kill off characters (because they are valued IP and that merch and licensing deals are too sweet to lose).
If they bring back to life a certain imperial character from Mandalorian at some point in the future, then just what is the point of being invested in Star Wars on any emotional level, if nobody of note actually dies. They just reappear at some point in the future. It is nearly as bad as Filoni’s reluctance to kill off any of his characters from the animated series, even to the point of bringing the time travel “World between worlds” gimmick to save certain characters.
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
I believe the original plan was to not see the Emperor in full until Episode IX anyway, but when it was decided to just make a trilogy, he was moved to Jedi. Not sure if there were any plans to bring him back post-Jedi.
You’ll laugh! You’ll cry! You’ll kiss three bucks goodbye!
Palpatine’s death at Vader’s hands was probably the most incredibly poignant, perfect ending possible to the saga. Despite ROTJ’s many flaws, they really nailed that ending. It’s so rare that a saga like this wraps up with such a perfect resolution.
Of course, Lucas decided to decrease the poignancy factor by ~30% by dubbing in Vader saying “No! No!!!” before killing Palpatine. Sometimes I just don’t understand that man.
And I think Palpatine’s death was probably the least ambiguous death possible. Nobody ever had any doubt that he was dead. Future installments that unwisely decided to resurrect him (Dark Empire, Rise of Skywalker) did so through cloning - which doesn’t negate the fact that he did in fact die in ROTJ. Just because someone dies doesn’t mean a clone of that person cannot later be created.
Palpatine should’ve lived and gone to jail for his crimes or the rebels are no better than the Empire
Underrated comment.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
In comic books, nobody is ever “really” gone and its just kind of accepted, even expected that an important “dead” character isn’t really dead forever. Anything can happen. It was a clone/robot/twin… time travel. Deus Ex Machina. Some super power we didn’t know about lets him come alive. It was a hallucination. Or maybe there’s a multi-verse and the one you saw was just one of many variations of the character.
Or just flat out he’s back and no explanation is given, it just is.
But in movies that are supposedly part of the same story we demand a little more, and yet… lazy writing.
But yes, Boba Fett, Darth Maul, Palpatine, they all died in those movies and were meant to be dead. But other people wanted them to come back or the original creators changed their minds, and so boom, they are back, dead again, etc.
I highly doubt Lucas “regretted it.” He only would regret any money he might have lost, but that’s not even an issue to me. If people love a character and didn’t want him to die, then killing the character reveals that, and the “come back” can generate even more hype and make even more money, right? Killing off the character multiple times can “cheapen” the comeback however. The stakes are lowered if we just assume that any character is probably going to come back sooner or later, by some convenience or ridiculous re-write.
At least in the old matinee serials they would show “last time on…” footage showing how the good guy escaped or substituted the dummy or put on the bullet proof vest at the last second (even though this footage wasn’t show in the previous episode, we clearly saw the thing they were in blow up).
Yes, it’s harder to duplicate that within a movie itself (infamously done in Rise of Skywalker with Chewbacca or the various slo mo “death fake outs” used in the LOTR trilogy).
<i>TCBOO</i>
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
No
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
No
Ah, thank you. I think I was confused with George/Lucasfilm giving Tom Veitch permission to bring Palpatine back via cloning for the Dark Empire stories.
A far superior story, and executed so much than TROS, despite Dark Empire’s own issues and problems with getting a finale at all
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
No
Ah, thank you. I think I was confused with George/Lucasfilm giving Tom Veitch permission to bring Palpatine back via cloning for the Dark Empire stories.
A far superior story, and executed so much than TROS, despite Dark Empire’s own issues and problems with getting a finale at all
George wasn’t the one who gave Tom Veitch permission.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vso18w/lucy_autrey_wilson_creator_director_of_the/
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
No
Ah, thank you. I think I was confused with George/Lucasfilm giving Tom Veitch permission to bring Palpatine back via cloning for the Dark Empire stories.
A far superior story, and executed so much than TROS, despite Dark Empire’s own issues and problems with getting a finale at all
George wasn’t the one who gave Tom Veitch permission.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vso18w/lucy_autrey_wilson_creator_director_of_the/
That is why I posted George/Lucasfilm. I’m aware of that recent claim in the interview by Lucy Wilson. It is just that to me it seems a little strange that this anecdote surfaced after Tom Veitch had recently passed away. And that the anecdote also falls in line with and follows attempts in recent years by Lucasfilm and the publishing “arm” to downplay George’s involvement in the EU (and the Holiday Special, for that matter).
With the long history of lies, retcons, and rewriting of history by George and Lucasfilm, including downplaying and omitting various talents and contributors from Star Wars history, I think I choose to believe Tom Veitch when he says George gave the “okay” to do that in bringing back the Emperor via clones. Maybe more so given the acrimony of what happened with Tom and Lucasfilm’s abrupt parting of ways. With Tom only being given a 2-part story to quickly wrap up Dark Empire, instead of the anticipated 6-part finale.
Whether that “okay” for Tom to use the Emperor came directly from George, through Lucy Wilson, or through other people, or a mixture of people along the chain at Lucasfilm, I don’t know.
Veitch did say he wanted to originally bring back Vader’s mask and costume for Dark Empire, before using the Emperor, but was told “no” by Lucas. So who at Lucasfilm made that “no” decision, that Vader was “off limits”? And why? Because according to Lucy Wilson in that recent interview “We were kinda letting people do what they wanted [back] then”, and it wasn’t George? That in itself raises more questions.
The story by Tom saying George gave him “the okay” to use the Emperor also stood unchallenged by George, Lucasfilm, the publishers, whoever gave the “final okay” before Dark Empire went to print, and anyone “in the know”, for some 30+ years?
Edit: ^ Or why didn’t Lucy Wilson simply correct Tom Veitch at the time, if this indeed was the case, some 30+ years ago? Instead of letting this simple misunderstanding or miscommunication stand?
But I think I may have already veered off topic in this thread, it has probably been covered elsewhere by people far more informed and knowledgeable than me, and I am also rambling on with it too!
Did George plan on brining Palpatine back in any of his many Sequel Trilogy ideas?
No
Ah, thank you. I think I was confused with George/Lucasfilm giving Tom Veitch permission to bring Palpatine back via cloning for the Dark Empire stories.
A far superior story, and executed so much than TROS, despite Dark Empire’s own issues and problems with getting a finale at all
George wasn’t the one who gave Tom Veitch permission.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/vso18w/lucy_autrey_wilson_creator_director_of_the/
That is why I posted George/Lucasfilm. I’m aware of that recent claim in the interview by Lucy Wilson. It is just that to me it seems a little strange that this anecdote surfaced after Tom Veitch had recently passed away. And that the anecdote also falls in line with and follows attempts in recent years by Lucasfilm and the publishing “arm” to downplay George’s involvement in the EU (and the Holiday Special, for that matter).
With the long history of lies, retcons, and rewriting of history by George and Lucasfilm, including downplaying and omitting various talents and contributors from Star Wars history, I think I choose to believe Tom Veitch when he says George gave the “okay” to do that in bringing back the Emperor via clones. Maybe more so given the acrimony of what happened with Tom and Lucasfilm’s abrupt parting of ways. With Tom only being given a 2-part story to quickly wrap up Dark Empire, instead of the anticipated 6-part finale.
Whether that “okay” for Tom to use the Emperor came directly from George, through Lucy Wilson, or through other people, or a mixture of people along the chain at Lucasfilm, I don’t know.
Veitch did say he wanted to originally bring back Vader’s mask and costume for Dark Empire, before using the Emperor, but was told “no” by Lucas. So who at Lucasfilm made that “no” decision, that Vader was “off limits”? And why? Because according to Lucy Wilson in that recent interview “We were kinda letting people do what they wanted [back] then”, and it wasn’t George? That in itself raises more questions.
The story by Tom saying George gave him “the okay” to use the Emperor also stood unchallenged by George, Lucasfilm, the publishers, whoever gave the “final okay” before Dark Empire went to print, and anyone “in the know”, for some 30+ years?
But I think I may have already veered off topic in this thread, it has probably been covered elsewhere by people far more informed and knowledgeable than me, and I am also rambling on with it too!
Shortly after Dark Empire was published, Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazine (as Star Wars Insider was called at the time) quoted as saying that Lucy Wilson rejected the Vader imposter idea and then approved the clone Emperor idea.
I also doubt George would allow a comic to spoil his Sequel Trilogy plans.
I also doubt George would allow a comic to spoil his Sequel Trilogy plans.
George had Sequel plans back then? Huh.
Before the "I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels”, also the “There will definitely never be Episodes VII-IX. That’s because there isn’t any story, I mean, I never thought of anything!”, and “That was created by the media, not by me.” in response to the question ‘Wasn’t there talk at one time of three trilogies?’ 😉
Taking an unreliable narrator at their word is tough the best of times.
Back to Minch’s ‘Did you think Lucas regret the way Palpatine died?’
I don’t think George did regret it. The toy and merchandise sales for Palpatine weren’t too high around the time of Return Of The Jedi! And the story was for Palpatine done, despite Ian McDiarmid asking George about it a number of times!
I also doubt George would allow a comic to spoil his Sequel Trilogy plans.
George had Sequel plans back then? Huh.
I meant, “If he had sequel Sequel plans, there’s no wy he would allow a comic to spoil them”.