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George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist... — Page 7

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The following from George explains everything:

"Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.” Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2,000 years ago. Each Sith has an apprentice, but the problem was, each Sith Lord got to be powerful. And the Sith Lords would try to kill each other because they all wanted to be the most powerful. So in the end they killed each other off, and there wasn’t anything left. So the idea is that when you have a Sith Lord, and he has an apprentice, the apprentice is always trying to recruit somebody to join him — because he’s not strong enough, usually — so that he can kill his master.

That’s why I call it a Rule of Two — there’s only two Sith Lords. There can’t be any more because they kill each other. They’re not smart enough to realize that if they do that, they’re going to wipe themselves out. Which is exactly what they did."

The Phantom Menace novelisation includes the essential history of the Sith directly from George too. There was never a war between the Jedi or Sith but a skirmish of sorts. More so it was their own hubris that doomed them. There’s also no contradiction to the formation of the Republic which was 1,000 years ago. The Sith could’ve been involved in the full scale war that brought about the Republic but it doesn’t necessarily mean it was a full scale conflict between Jedi and Sith armies as per George.

Full Excerpt:

Night blanketed the vast cityscape of Coruscant, cloaking the endless horizon of gleaming spires in deep velvet layers. Lights blazed from windows, bright pinpricks against the black. As far as the eye could see, as far as a being could
travel, the city’s buildings jutted from the planet’s surface in needles of steel alloy and reflective glass. Long ago, the city had consumed the planet with its bulk, and now there was only the city, the center of the galaxy, the heartbeat of the Republic’s rule. A rule that some were intending to end once and for all. A rule that some despised. Darth Sidious stood high on a balcony overlooking Coruscant, his concealing black robes making him appear as if he were a creature produced by the night. He stood facing the city, his eyes directed at its lights, at the faint movement of its air traffic, disinterested in his apprentice, Darth Maul, who waited to one side.

His thoughts were of the Sith and of the history of their order. The Sith had come into being almost two thousand years ago. They were a
cult given over to the dark side of the Force, embracing fully the concept that power denied was power wasted. A rogue Jedi Knight had founded the Sith, a singular dissident in an order of harmonious followers, a rebel who understood
from the beginning that the real power of the Force lay not in the light, but in the dark. Failing to gain approval for his beliefs from the Council, he had broken with the order, departing with his knowledge and his skills, swearing in secret that he could bring down those who had dismissed him. He was alone at first, but others from the Jedi order who believed as he did and who had followed him in his study of the dark side soon came over. Others were recruited, and soon the ranks of the Sith swelled to more than fifty in number. Disdaining the concepts of cooperation and consensus, relying on the belief that acquisition of power in any form lends strength and yields control, the Sith began to build their cult in opposition to the Jedi. Theirs was not an order created to serve; theirs was an order created to dominate. Their war with the Jedi was vengeful and furious and ultimately doomed. The rogue Jedi who had founded the Sith order was its nominal leader, but his ambition excluded any sharing of power. His disciples began to conspire against him and each other almost from the beginning, so that the war they instigated was as much with each other as with the Jedi. In the end, the Sith destroyed themselves. They destroyed their leader first, then each other. What few survived the initial bloodbath were quickly dispatched by watchful Jedi. In a matter of only weeks, all of them died. All but one. Darth Maul shifted impatiently. The younger Sith had not yet learned his Master’s patience; that would come with time and training. It was patience that had saved the Sith order in the end. It was patience that would give them their victory now over the Jedi. The Sith who had survived when all of his fellows had died had understood that. He had adopted patience as a virtue when the others had forsaken it. He had adopted cunning, stealth, and subterfuge as the foundation of his way—old Jedi virtues the others had disdained. He stood aside while the Sith tore at each other like kriks and were destroyed. When the carnage was complete, he went into hiding, biding his time, waiting for his chance. When it was believed all of the Sith were destroyed, he emerged from his concealment. At first he worked alone, but he was growing old and he was the last of his kind. Eventually, he went out in search of an apprentice. Finding one, he trained him to be a Master in his turn, then to find his own apprentice, and so to carry on their work. But there would only be two at any one time. There would be no repetition of the mistakes of the old order, no struggle between Siths warring for power within the cult. Their common enemy was the Jedi, not each other. It was for their war with the Jedi they must save themselves. The Sith who reinvented the order called himself Darth Bane. A thousand years had passed since the Sith were believed destroyed, and the time they had waited for had come at last.

“Tatooine is sparsely populated.” His student’s rough voice broke into his thoughts, and Darth Sidious lifted his eyes to the hologram. “The Hutts rule. The Republic has no presence. If the trace was correct, Master, I will find them quickly and without hindrance.” The yellow eyes glimmered with excitement and anticipation in the strange mosaic of Darth Maul’s face as he waited impatiently for a response. Darth Sidious was pleased. “Move against the Jedi first,” he advised softly. “You will then have no difficulty taking the Queen back to Naboo, where she will sign the treaty.” Darth Maul exhaled sharply. Satisfaction permeated his voice. “At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have our revenge.” “You have been well trained, my young apprentice,” Darth Sidious soothed. “The Jedi will be no match for you. It is too late for them to stop us now. Everything is going as planned. The Republic will soon be in my control.”

In the silence that followed, the Sith Lord could feel a dark heat rise inside his chest and consume him with a furious pleasure.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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screams in the void said:

Servii said:

screams in the void said:

Yeah , the Legends/canon debate never really bothered me as I remember when the original Marvel comics were kind of dismissed in the 90s and not considered worthy of " Canon " status , and then a decade or so later , they were incorporated into the EU novels and comics etc . Plus , you have the fact that though George didn’t see the EU material as part of his universe , he still often cherry picked from it , from the prequels to the clone wars and even to his sequel trilogy treatments . Which is what the current iteration of Lucasfilm under Disney has been doing a lot of as well .So I see that as relevant to this threads title . I have been making the point ,often ,as well , that the legends material is still in print and yes , a lot of it is even being re issued with newly commissioned cover art .A lot of people act like those stories were wiped from existence when that is clearly not the case .The way I see it ,with everything out there , anyone is free to follow one or the other or even mix and match to suit their tastes where it fits . There’s something for everyone and I will never complain about it . I just read/watch what I like and ignore the rest . I remember the dark times , from about 1986 to 1991 when there was hardly any Star Wars material available .

That’s a good way of approaching it. Star Wars is like a buffet. You enjoy what you like and leave the rest for others. It’s not really worth it to get caught up in which stories are canon or not, since they’re all works of fiction, anyway. The old EU’s “softer” approach to canon, with the different tiers and all that, was more supportive of that “buffet” mindset, since you could take or leave individual stories based on what you preferred. Disney canon is more monolithic by comparison, though that may be starting to change now with stuff like Visions and the KOTOR remake.

yup , it is like a buffet , and with the current canon , I also take or leave individual stories based on what I prefer ,as I do with the old EU .

I fully agree. If only more fans thought along this way, instead of being beholden to what George, or someone at Lucasfilm or Disney says or thinks.

As this thread highlights, these people in power have a highly selective and evolving relationship with the truth and history of Star Wars. Even to the point of trying to retcon or devalue our memories, via changes to ‘canon’, or ‘legends’, or ‘EU’. Or other labels used to categorize certain previous official or licensed content as being less important, and there is a new story or version to replace it.

Continuing on this:

 

Stardust1138 said:

The following from George explains everything:

"Everybody said, “Oh, well, there was a war between the Jedi and the Sith.” Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody. What really happened is, the Sith ruled the universe for a while, 2,000 years ago.

No, it really doesn’t explain everything. This is quite the shitty and ungracious thing when George talks like this. As if his vision is the only one that matters to everyone. And also plays down the contributions of others to the Star Wars Universe.

Additional information:

The “Well, that never happened. That’s just made up by fans or somebody” did actually happen, in the EU. The Jedi-Sith War is part the Darth Bane trilogy of books, the first books to focus on Darth Bane.

Those three Darh Bane books were written by Drew Karpyshyn, who also wrote the senior writer and one of the core game designers on “Knights of the Old Republic” games. He also worked as a writer on the “The Old Republic” game, and wrote two novels set in the same era, “The Old Republic: Revan” and “The Old Republic: Annihilation”.
 

Even the official Star Wars website hints at a Jedi-Sith War in the “databank” for Darth Bane:

“After the Sith were decimated by the Jedi Knights of a thousand years ago, Bane enacted the Sith rule of two: there would be only two active Sith at one time – a Dark Lord to embody the power, and an apprentice to crave it.”
 

In canon, in the 2017-18 “Age of Republic - Darth Maul” comics, it is revealed there was a huge battle around 1000 years ago, between the Jedi and Sith on Malachor, a place where a huge amount of Sith died.

Sidious: “It was here on this dead world that the Jedi struck a terrible blow against the Sith. Many of our order were struck down. All because they wanted to be free.”

This also gave reason for Maul to believe that the Sith deserved revenge for their slaughter at the hands of the Jedi.

 

Thankfully, there are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio George, than are dreamt of in your retconned philosophy.

 
 

Edit: About George’s plans for his new version of the Sequel Trilogy (just one of many over the years for the ST, including there not being any ST at all):

Stardust1138 said:

Greetings all! It’s been awhile. Further details of George’s Sequels leaked from the upcoming book “The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005”.

Here George gives a greater context to the story of the trilogy he wanted to tell beyond what we’ve heard with regards to the Whills, Luke being in exile to find his spark again in Episode VII, and the son of Han and Leia falling to the Dark Side.

THE CHOSEN ONE

…

George Lucas: "Darth Maul trained a girl, Darth Talon, who was in the comic books as his apprentice. She was the new Darth Vader, and most of the action was with her. So these were the two main villains of the trilogy. Maul eventually becomes the godfather of crime in the universe because, as the Empire falls, he takes over.

The movies are about how Leia—I mean, who else is going to be the leader?—is trying to build the Republic. They still have the apparatus of the Republic but they have to get it under control from the gangsters. That was the main story.

It starts out a few years after Return of the Jedi and we establish pretty quickly that there’s this underworld, there are these offshoot stormtroopers who started their own planets, and that Luke is trying to restart the Jedi. He puts the word out, so out of 100,000 Jedi, maybe 50 or 100 are left. The Jedi have to grow again from scratch, so Luke has to find two- and three-year-olds, and train them. It’ll be 20 years before you have a new generation of Jedi.

By the end of the trilogy Luke would have rebuilt much of the Jedi, and we would have the renewal of the New Republic, with Leia, Senator Organa, becoming the Supreme Chancellor in charge of everything. So she ended up being the Chosen One."

SparkySywer sums up the issue of this would-be retcon by George in having Leia now being the Chosen One, instead of Anakin:

SparkySywer said:

He [George Lucas] describes Anakin as a very straightforward Chosen One who does defeat the Sith and bring balance to the Force in RotJ, at least until he changed his mind and decided Leia was the Chosen One, except not because he never ended up making that ST.

The Secret History of Star Wars | Star Wars Visual Comparisons | George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time-Travelling Revisionist

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This is simply a great thread for the history of early Star Wars with so much to learn and think about! I really only enjoy early Star Wars, Visions and The Mandalorian from the films and TV so it pleasing to so many accomplished discussions on here.

 

My own experience:
 

I was having a disagreement with a friend about Jabba and his supposed design for the original Star Wars film in 1977. My friend had watched the 1983 “From Star Wars to Jedi The Making of a Saga” documentary, and in this it is stated by George that already had a design for Jabba; as a big slimy slug, ready for the use, in the 1977 film.

I pointed my friend to this thread, and many other threads on here, and my friend saw he was mistaken. We then sat down and watched the “From Star Wars to Jedi The Making of a Saga” documentary once again, and I can certainly see why my friend mistakenly thought that George did have such a design. George misled many people about this in the documentary:
 

https://youtu.be/eUczUdIYMyM?t=1211 - the YouTube time code for the 1983 documentary (or at 20 minutes, 13 seconds).
 

George Lucas: “In the film Star Wars (1977), there was a scene with Jabba himself. He was always intended to be this loathsome large monstrous creature.”

The following image appears in the video, inferring that this image is George’s design of Jabba, at the time of making the original Star Wars film, in 1976:

George Lucas continues: “But it wasn’t possible to incorporate my design of Jabba when we shot the scene with the actors on the set.”
 

We know this not to be true. The above image design for Jabba shown in this documentary is from 1981-82 - and not for the 1977 Star Wars film.

We know this because the image shown includes Salacious B Crumb behind Jabba. Salacious B Crumb was a creature invented, designed and sculpted for Return Of The Jedi, in 1981/82 by Tony McVey, as talked about in this article on the official Star Wars website:

https://www.starwars.com/news/tony-mcvey-regal-robot-salacious-crumb-interview

StarWars.com: “The legend I have heard, Tony, is that you came up with the original in a night. He was going to be this little creature sitting on the shoulder of a background alien. And then everyone just fell head over heels for him and he became Jabba’s little guy. And then, of course, Tim Rose made him this unforgettable screeching thing. So I’d love to hear some of your recollections, both from working on the original, but then also taking that expertise and bringing it into this sculpt.”

Tony McVey: “OK, well, let’s see if I can remember that far back. Phil Tippett came to me one day in the middle of the 11 months I was working on this project [Return Of The Jedi], and he said, “We need a little pet character for one of the background of aliens.” It was for Ephant Mon, which I also worked on. “We need a little pet for this guy. Can you come up with something?” So I went home that night and I scribbled something on a piece of paper. It’s a cross between a parrot and a monkey. And I brought it back the next day and I showed it to him. He said, “OK, go ahead and make that.” It was as simple as that. There’s nothing to it. Just a little background monkey character.”
 

When George misleads people this way, it is easy to see why some people fall for George’s false history and claims, and mistakenly take them as being fact or true. Or even if George did not remember correctly, or simply used the wrong image, then why does nobody else correct the mistake, a Lucasfilm archivist, historian or fact checker?

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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Some more contradictions and a bit more hypocrisy from George: Lucas is on record as suggesting doing the New Jedi Order books as the Sequels. Years later he then backtracked and claimed that was not the way he would have done it, despite it being his own actual suggestion (it also a project he worked on and contributed to). And then, rather hypocritically, years later Lucas actually used some of those early NJO ideas for his own Sequel Trilogy film treatments:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

 

and the Total Film interview with George below from 2008:

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

“And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married.”

~ George Lucas, Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008

^ https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ

 

When George later changed his mind and decided to try his hand on the Sequels film, his own treatments were based some of early New Jedi Order novel ideas discussed in the article below, notably the conception of the NJO and aspects of other familiar EU stories. George himself had also contributed to the NJO books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making suggestions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

The text in the above article is a ‘spoiler’. To see the text appear, double-click on the space where the text should be, to see it. Or click here for a screenshot of the article: https://i.imgur.com/6n1rNdM.png

 
 

In Summary…

 
In 1999:

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

George also contributed to the New Jedi Order books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making a number of other suggestions implemented by the NJO writers.
 

In 2008:

George Lucas: “And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done it”.
 

Around 2011-12:

When George later changes his mind and decides to now try his hand at the Sequel Trilogy, his own later treatments are based some on those same novel ideas, notably the conception of the New Jedi Order, and also some other aspects of familiar EU stories.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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George Lucas made Star Wars, and the guys on originaltrilogy.com made a post about how Lucas some times makes offhand comments about his films. Great job!

Lucasfilm fan since '83!

Christian, husband, father

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Ah why not, I love some wummery occasionally.

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I have to admit, when I first joined this community and saw the title of this thread, I had a knee-jerk negative reaction to it, out of defensiveness on George’s behalf. But as time has passed and I’ve had more time to think on these things and discuss them with people, I’ve realized how important threads like this are for documenting all that’s been said over time. Many, many fans take George’s statements at face value, and are under the impression that everything was planned out from the beginning to be a certain way. Maybe George has even convinced himself that that’s the case. But threads like this help remind people that the franchise’s history is more complicated than that.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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The point is how dumb it is the original hasn’t been released when its so easy. Every other studio or nearly every studio does catalog releases. You can get Vanilla Ice in Cool as Ice in HD but not Star Wars, its ridiculous.

I thank Jason for this scholarship, Lucas shouldn’t be able to get away with it erasing and rewriting history while gaslighting Gen X fans who remember how it was.

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Emre1601 said:

Some more contradictions and a bit more hypocrisy from George: Lucas is on record as suggesting doing the New Jedi Order books as the Sequels. Years later he then backtracked and claimed that was not the way he would have done it, despite it being his own actual suggestion (it also a project he worked on and contributed to). And then, rather hypocritically, years later Lucas actually used some of those early NJO ideas for his own Sequel Trilogy film treatments:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

 

and the Total Film interview with George below from 2008:

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

“And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married.”

~ George Lucas, Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008

^ https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ

 

When George later changed his mind and decided to try his hand on the Sequels film, his own treatments were based some of early New Jedi Order novel ideas discussed in the article below, notably the conception of the NJO and aspects of other familiar EU stories. George himself had also contributed to the NJO books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making suggestions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

The text in the above article is a ‘spoiler’. To see the text appear, double-click on the space where the text should be, to see it. Or click here for a screenshot of the article: https://i.imgur.com/6n1rNdM.png

 
 

In Summary…

 
In 1999:

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

George also contributed to the New Jedi Order books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making a number of other suggestions implemented by the NJO writers.
 

In 2008:

George Lucas: “And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done it”.
 

Around 2011-12:

When George later changes his mind and decides to now try his hand at the Sequel Trilogy, his own later treatments are based some on those same novel ideas, notably the conception of the New Jedi Order, and also some other aspects of familiar EU stories.

As I’m one of the people being quoted here, I’d add more to this. Firstly, The Expanded Universe was never a part of the Official Star Wars canon in the first place. Disney didn’t 'decanonize a thing. George Lucas always maintained they were seperate universes, and that only his direct works made up the official Star Wars canon. There are no contradictions with regard to Lucas.

NJO was not his idea, and his involvemenet in it was extremely limited, not creative, and only as a favor to Lucy Wilson, whom he had a long and close relationship with prior to her moving over the Lucas Licensing.

Creators of the New Jedi Order also speak about this.

There are hundreds of quotes and interviews, some on TV that show that Lucas’s involvement in the EU was extremely limited and ceased almost entirely when he began the Prequels, that he didn’t consider the EU canon or a part of his Canonical Star Wars universe. Quotes below -

‘In 2014, Disney declared the Expanded Universe was no longer canon. It became ‘Legends’. What do you think of this, seeing all of your work suddenly become non-canon?’

“Those of us writing the EU were always told, all along, from the very beginning (have I stressed that strongly enough?), “Only the Movies are Canon.” Sure, it was disappointing.”

~ Kathy Tyers, EU author [Truce at Bakura, Balance Point] Interview, 2018

http://starwarsinterviews.com/various/authors/kathy-tyers-author/

…

Podcast Interview with Steve Perry, Author of Shadows of the Empire from the Expanded Universe -

Interviewer - 'So what are your thoughts about your book and all the ones that came other than this last year are no longer part of the Official Star Wars Canon ever since Disney took over?

Steve Perry - “Ohh they never were! Nothing was ever canon other than the movies.”

The Ritual Misery Podcast with hosts Amos and Kent, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2569&v=opbMcVJolSA&feature=emb_logo

…

“While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.”

~ Lucasfilm, 2014

https://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page

…

“I get asked all the time, ‘What happens after “Return of the Jedi”?,’ and there really is no answer for that,” he said. “The movies were the story of Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker, and when Luke saves the galaxy and redeems his father, that’s where that story ends.”"

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2008, “George Lucas: ‘Star Wars’ won’t go beyond Darth Vader”, interview with Los Angeles Times

Star Wars Insider 108, 2009

Full Page - https://ibb.co/7tBy5VK

…

“There’s this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear – and he made it very clear – that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it.”

“So everything else was a world of fun ideas, exciting characters, great possibilities, but the EU was created to explore all those things.And I know and I fully respect peoples opinions about it that some of the material said ‘the next canon part of it’ <wink,wink>[dismissive groans]…M’kay… But from the filmmaking world I was brought into, the films and TV shows were it.”

…they were set in stone, so it was not a big change for me when everyone was saying ‘everything is Legend status now’, I’m like ‘yeah, that’s what I’ve always understood, it’s all legend status’.

~ Dave Filoni speaking about working with George Lucas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD14JhyL6Zg

…

‘An often asked question we recieve is whether the Timothy Zahn books are supposed to be the official story for the last three films in the Star Wars Saga since George is not sure whether he will ever get to those?’

"No, they are not. The whole book series is independent from the films. The one thing we will not do in any book series is preempt any of the sequels. There are a number of trilogies coming out in book form, like the one from Kevin Anderson, which are not the stories of episodes seven, eight and nine. It was never intended to be that way.

~ Howard Roffman Interview, President of Lucas Licensing, in charge of the EU,
Star wars Insider 22 [Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazine], 1994

Full page source - https://ibb.co/ZKwhfDZ

…

(And lest someone try and site ‘teirs’ of canon. That had nothing to do with actual canonicity. That was used as the filing system for entering and retrieving data from the Holocron Database.)

“I think people over emphasize the importance of the canon level. The intent of the canon levels was, as the main intent was 'if someones looking for the ships from a film, they can than use those fields to check for them only in the films,and thus seperate that from what was in the EU. So we can look at it case by case. I think there is an over emphasis of what those fields mean and what they represent”.

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator for Lucas Licensing

“That ‘level of canon’ thus helps in terms of bookkeeping. Those ‘canon levels’ are for the holocron.”

~ Pablo Hidalgo

ForceCast #273: The Galaxy Is Reading - Interview with Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo, 2013 Approximately the 1 hour mark so 1:00 - 1:02 mark

http://www.forcecast.net/story/home/ForceCast_273_The_Galaxy_Is_Reading_154431.asp

…

“If you’ve visited your bookstore lately, you have no doubt seen the new hard cover Star Wars novel, ‘Heir the the Empire’ by Timothy Zahn and wondered if it is, in fact, the official continuation of the Star Wars saga. No, it’s not. Although the book is licensed and approved by Lucasfilm, it is not George Lucas’ story of the continuing saga, but, rather, a story of the author’s own imagination.”

~ Timothy Zahn Interview/Editorial, The Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazine [Renamed Star Wars Insider] 14, 1991

https://ibb.co/zxsw6y4

…

‘Does LucasFilm Ltd. itself actually have a Canon Policy?’

“No. I’m not exactly sure what the existence of such a thing would actually mean. Beyond the merchandise and online, I don’t see how or where it would be applied. It’s not like there’s a document that exists that says “these are the things that are canon” that everyone in the company can look at.”

Leland Chee, Holocron Continuity Database questions Forum, SW.com., 2005

https://ibb.co/9y1yLmx

…

“I guess you could say there’s an “in George’s head at any given point in time” canon, which no one besides George knows. But you have to remember that this canon is constantly changing in his mind. If it weren’t, George would never have needed to write second drafts to any of the scripts. Nor would you see changes to the films for versions after their original theatrical release.”

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Administrator, StarWars.com., 2005

https://ibb.co/Xp0yNBT

…

"So if we’ll never see it onscreen, what does happen to Princess Leia and Han Solo after they fall in love?

”Han and Leia probably did get married,” Lucas conceded. ”They settled down. She became a senator, and they got a nice little house with a white picket fence. Han Solo is out there cooking burgers on the grill. Is that a movie? I don’t think so.”

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2005 - MTV interview

“That explains the fates of two of the most beloved characters in that galaxy far, far away…”

http://www.mtv.com/news/1501522/what-happened-to-han-and-leia-how-about-jar-jar-star-wars-emperor-lucas-speaks/

…

'Sorry Tasty [Leland Chee], a rather long and boring question about continuity, canon and the Holocron…

Much earlier this year, I participated in a debate in the Can We Get “The Canon Argument” Out of the Way Now… thread on this board and had a long discussion with another poster on the canonicity of the EU.

The poster had argued that based on George Lucas’s quotes in Cinescape in July 2002 and in Starlog in August 2005, where he mentions the films and the EU and films being “two separate worlds” and the EU being a “parallel universe”, that there are officially two different Star Wars universes or continuities:

  • George Lucas’ Star Wars universe, which is the ‘real’ Star Wars universe, consisting of the 6 Star Wars movies and only those films; the stories set out in the EU do not happen, nor are a part of that universe or story.
  • The Expanded Universe’s Star Wars universe, which is not the same as the ‘real’ Star Wars universe, but is it’s own spin-off universe based on it; it does not reflect George Lucas’ vision of the story of what ‘really happens’ in Star Wars.

https://ibb.co/jZbDXnM

When I mentioned your statements about the different canonicity levels in Star Wars, he argued that they were only applicable to the EU Star Wars universe, and didn’t apply to George Lucas’ Star Wars universe. Further more he posited that since Lucas Licensing and LucasFilm Ltd are separate entities, that the statements of Lucas Licensing employees do not and cannot override George Lucas’ quotes, or the quotes of LucasFilm Ltd employees, since Lucas Licensing cannot know or comment accurately about the policies of LFL.

I on the other hand argued that there was only one official Star Wars universe or continuity, which is made up of both the Star Wars films and the EU and contains materials of different levels of canonicity as described in your blog. I contended that the quotes of Lucas where he mentions “two worlds” were not supposed to be taken literally; he was describing how his work on the films was ‘his world’ and he didn’t get involved in the EU which was ‘a separate world’.

Additionally, I argued that LucasFilm Ltd and Lucas Licensing, being divisions of the same company, worked together closely and thus each division was aware of and could comment with accuracy on the policies of the other.

I was wondering which of our arguments were correct? Or are we both off the mark in some way? Many thanks!’

a rather long and boring question about continuity, canon and the Holocron…

“The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we’ve got in the Holocron. You’re never going to know what George’s view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving. It remains elastic until it gets committed to film or another official source. Even then, we know there’s always room for change. Though the Holocron is maintained by Licensing, it is utilized by folks throughout all the Lucas companies.”

Leland Chee, Continuity Database Administrator,StarWars.com, Dec.6th 2006

https://ibb.co/VmPN1fr

…

“I don’t read that stuff, I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world. That’s a different world than my world. But I do try and keep it consistent. The way I do it is they have a Star Wars encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it and see if it has already been used. When I said other people could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have TWO universes: My Universe and than this other one. They try to make THEIR universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.”

~ George Lucas Starlog Magazine Interview, 2005 - https://ibb.co/Km1CcNs

…

“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."

~ George Lucas, Cinescape, 2002

…

“What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate.”

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator for Lucas Licensing, SYFY WIRE Fandom Files #13 Interview,Jan.2018

https://ibb.co/r2SvbBP

…

‘Do you have any input into the development of the storyline?’

“Yes. The development of the New Jedi Order, as well as of all the novels, is a a combined effort involving the Lucasfilm publishing people, the Del Rey editors, and the authors.”

~ Shelly Shapiro, Del Rey Editor, TFN Interview, 2002

https://ibb.co/XjY18Zt

…

“What George Saw as Canon”

“In the old days, George Lucas saw his universe as separate from publishing [EU]. He wasn’t at all interested in connecting.”

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2016
http://i.imgur.com/6ZOkAau.png

…

"From Star Wars Insider [The Official Star Wars Magazine] - Issue 77 , Using Dark Empire & The Thrawn Trilogy As Examples.

"A very common question often posed at conventions and other Lucasfilm-attended functions is about the “long promised” sequel saga meant to continue the events after Return of the Jedi. And though early interviews during the production of the original trilogy spoke hypothetically about nine or even twelve episodes, the core story of the Star Wars saga is six episodes, covering the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

So do episodes beyond Return of the Jedi exist? Nothing beyond possible story points and ideas, certainly not fleshed out story treatments or scripts. Fans often wonder if Dark Empire or the Thrawn Trilogy were based off those notes or are meant to be Episodes VII, VIII, IX. - That’s not the case.Those works are the creation of their respective authors with the guidance of editors at Lucas Licensing. They are not, nor ever were, meant to be George Lucas’ definitive vision of what happens next."

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2004 - https://ibb.co/K9PMgH3

…

Pablo Hidalgo on Lucas and the EU being separate Universes.

“He [Lucas] only considers his movies and TV projects as his universe, and told the Clone Wars writers to only worry about those.”

https://i.redd.it/3fpbkocr43q01.png

‘How involved was he [Lucas] for stories in other media?’
‘Not Very’
‘That’s how I always felt and why I never read much of the EU. If it wasn’t from George, it didn’t hold much water for me’
'He held the same opinion =)

…

"There is no more clear illustration of the difference between the Expanded Universe and the Star Wars created by George Lucas. The EU is a well of ideas, and there’s what’s on screen. They don’t live in the same universe. Everyone wants to think so, I know,… and there is alot of effort to make it all work, but it’s pretty clear when you start really looking at it that when you take ideas from the printed realm and bring it to screen, it’s not the same. They relate. There are similarities. I still enjoy alot of those stories. I think there are a lot of great ideas. They influence you. They inspire you, which I think is the whole point of having an EU. We try to honor things when we can, to give nods to things, but at the end of the day there is a difference between what you see in the Star Wars films and TV series and what you see in those books.
[…]

We just need to think of it all as a creative collection of fun ideas separate from what George Lucas has made."

~ Dave Filoni, Star Wars Insider # 134, July, 2012

https://ibb.co/BL1y11V

…

”The novels and comic books are other authors’ interpretations of my creation. Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don’t have the time to read them. They’re not my vision of what Star Wars is."

~ George Lucas, 2004

https://ibb.co/4gSjpjN

…

"Q: What do you think of the expanded universe of books?

A: The books are in a different universe. I’ve not read any of them, and I told them when they started writing I wouldn’t read any of them and I blocked out certain periods."

~ George Lucas - “The Furry Conflict and the Great ‘Beard‘ of the Galaxy”
(report based on a Q&A session with George Lucas which occurred at USC on 11-19-03)

…

"The question selected from The Furry Conflict poll was: How much does the Expanded Universe influence the movies?

As I asked him, Lucas leaned back a moment and said to me “Very little.” When he first had agreed to let people write Expanded Universe books, he had said “I’m not gonna read ‘em” and it was a “different universe” that he wanted to keep away from the time period of his saga. He jokingly complained, however, that now when he writes a script he has to look through an encyclopedia to make sure that a name he comes up with doesn’t come too close to something in the EU."

- "Marc Xavier", November 2003, "The Furry Conflict and the Great ‘Beard‘ of the Galaxy"
  (report based on a Q&A session with George Lucas which occurred at USC on 11-19-03)

https://ibb.co/SdFPkqH

…

"I like to refer to the Interview with Lucas in the Special Editions.When asked about the novels and what not, he simply says:

”Those are another author’s interpretation of what I’ve created, and not to be taken seriously, as far as what is really going on in the Star Wars world.”

~ George Lucas, appeared on StarWars.com in April, 2004

https://ibb.co/5RT1RSD

https://ibb.co/7XQ4n11

…

"But Lucas allows for an Expanded Universe that exists parallel to the one he directly oversees. […] Though these [Expanded Universe] stories may get his stamp of approval, they don’t enter his canon unless they are depicted cinematically in one of his projects.”

~ Pablo Hidalgo, Star Wars: The Essential Reader’s Companion, 2012

…

“Lucas’ canon – and when I say ‘his canon’, I’m talking about what he was doing in the films and what he was doing in The Clone Wars – was hugely important. But what we were doing in the books really wasn’t on his radar.”

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator,SYFY WIRE Fandom Files #13 Interview,Jan.2018

…

‘The Star Wars Universe has expanded beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?’

"They have their own kind of world. There are three pillars of Star Wars. I’ll probably get in trouble for this, but it’s ok! There’s three pillars: the father, the son, and the holy ghost. I’m the Father, Howard Roffman [President of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three pillars don’t always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he does off on tangents and it’s hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek Universes: the TV show and than there’s all the spin offs. He said they were completely different and didn’t have anything to do with each other. So I said “Ok, go ahead”.

~ George Lucas, TF Magazine Interview, 2008
https://ibb.co/RN9JKJQ

…

Audience #1: You got a rapid fan base, it seems like nowadays the way Disney handles Star Wars canon, very well controlled, very tight, but back in the ’90s when it’s a blueprint of books and games and other things, how did … Do you internally manage —

"That was one of my mandates, when I began the spin off publishing program it was a sacrosanct rule that everything had to relate to each other, be consistent with each other and be consistent with the movies, ‘which were canon.’

We were pretty religious about doing that, our biggest problem was a guy named George Lucas, because he didn’t buy into the spin off fiction and the game program and all the ‘alternate universe’ we were creating."

We wanted it to be one universe, we felt strongly that that’s what it needed to be, but George as the filmmaker didn’t want to be beholden to somebody else’s creative vision.

So we would have very interesting skirmishes because we had a bunch of stuff that became, for the fans, pretty much canon [head-canon]* about what happened after Return of the Jedi, what different places in the galaxy were called, lots of different things and if he was proposing to do something in the prequels that contradicted that we would have long debates which usually ended at least after the first session with “I don’t care this is what I’m doing” , and maybe after the *4th or 5th session sometimes “Alright ‘maybe’ we can change it this way”

Now that everything is controlled by one central committee [Lucasfilm Story Group] we can have canon that applies to everything.

‘Messing with a Classic’ — Howard Roffman,President of Lucas Licensing under Lucas, in charge of the EU, Lucasfilm, TV interview, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMKHgwH-gY4 - [12:40 mark]

…

“I don’t even read the offshoot books that come out based on Star Wars.”

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 1999 - Film Night interview

…

“As far as I know, George Lucas himself is not involved. He has a liaison group that deals with the book people, the game people, etc. They do the day-to-day work. Occasionally, he will be asked a question and will give an answer.”

“I did meet Lucas once for a few minutes.” (They spoke about 1930’s cinema and Samurai movies.)

~ Timothy Zahn, ‘The Book Report’ Interview, 1997

…

Question: I heard that George Lucas doesn’t read the STAR WARS novels, or only reads a few. Has he read the Thrawn trilogy, and what did he think of it?

“As far as I know, he has not read any of the novels. From what I’ve heard, Lucas is a visual man. He likes comic books for the visual aspect. Frankly, I don’t think he has time to read, so I’m not offended.”

~ Timothy Zahn, ‘The Book Report’ Interview, 1997

…

‘Had he read your books?’

“I don’t think he ever read the novels…I don’t know what he thought about the books in general.”

Author Timothy Zahn on why George Lucas doesn’t read novels Interview, SYFY, 2016

…

“It’s not something we can really worry about, so we don’t. Lots of people have been working on lots of SW extrapolations for the last twenty years, in good faith. *There were never any promises from George Lucas or Lucasfilm regarding the acceptance of their work into some wider canon.”

~ Peet Janes, Dark Horse Comics Editor, 1998

https://ibb.co/QDBBdgR

…

‘Can you explain how the editorial process works? If something is suggested to change that you disagree with, does your opinion count, or does Lucasfilm inevitably have the final say?’

“STAR WARS belongs to LFL, and these folks have the final word. That said, there’s a lot of give and take. I have a big file of emails that bounced around among authors, editors, and LFL continuity team members.”

~ Elaine Cunningham, EU Author [Dark Journey], TFN Interview, 2002

https://ibb.co/LJ5MVtv

(No Lucas)

…

‘Can you describe the collaborative process with the NJO? Most authors have described this as a very enjoyable experience . . . what made that so?’

"Describing the NJO collaborative process is a bit like the proverbial blind men trying to describe an elephant–no single person can relate the whole picture. It starts with the NJO “bible”–a huge compendium of outlines, glossaries, character descriptions, etc. Then each author writes an outline, which gets reviewed, revised, approved, and added to the next version of the bible–as do any new terms, characters, etc. introduced in recent books.

The NJO bible is, of course, an enormous undertaking–but only a small part of the story. Most of the real work takes place in emails and phone conversations between small groups of people. The brainstorming is great fun. Everyone talks to everyone–Del Rey and Lucasfilm editors to each other, editors to authors, authors to authors, and somehow Shelly Shapiro and Sue Rostoni keep it all straight. Obviously, they have many good people working with them–Kathleen O’Shea and Chris Cerasi are just two who leap instantly to mind–but coordinating so many authors on such a huge project must be like herding cats. They do a remarkable job."

~ Troy Denning, EU Author, TFN Interview, 2002

https://ibb.co/RcR2qNt

(No Lucas mentioned)

…

‘Can you share with readers how you prepare for writing a Star Wars book? What material do you use to research the massive volume of backstory, history, information? What does Lucasfilm and Del Rey provide in assistance?’

“Del Rey provides the current Star Wars reference material. The Essential Guides and Star Wars Encyclopedia are absolute musts. The Encyclopedia was such a lifesaver that I asked Steve Sansweet to autograph it for me at last year’s Gen Con. More importantly, there’s the expertise of everyone who reads the manuscript in its various drafts; Shelly, Sue and her readers at Lucasfilm, the copyeditors (and others) at Del Rey. Everyone catches something, and it would be difficult to overestimate how much embarrassment they save a Star Wars author.”

~ Troy Denning, EU Author, TFN Interview, 2002

https://ibb.co/kxxykSz

(No Lucas mentioned)

…

‘What does the ‘establishment’ (Lucasfilm, Del Rey and the authors) set out to achieve with the NJO – what goals do you have? To shake up the galaxy? Passing down of the torch? What underlying themes so far have been presented? Were these themes a part of the planning, or a natural progression of the story line?’

"As far as I know, the only real goal Del Rey and LFL had for the NJO was to raise the bar on Star Wars: to make the books better than they have been so far. That’s what we all want, right? To make each book better (more thrilling, funnier, more powerful, whatever) than the ones that came before?

Well, that and make buckets of money. It’s best when quality and cash walk hand-in-hand, isn’t it?

It seems to me that the underlying themes are pretty much the province of the individual authors. Del Rey and LFL (and the story-conference writers, etc.) provide the skeleton. What the flesh looks like is up to each author."

~ Matthew Stover, EU Author, TFN Interview, 2002

https://ibb.co/L5yTJbs

(No Lucas mentioned)

…

‘Can you share with readers how you prepare for writing a Star Wars book? What material do you use to research the massive volume of backstory, history, information? What does Lucasfilm and Del Rey provide in assistance?’

“Del Rey and LFL provided me with all the Essential Guides, the STAR WARS ENCYCLOPEDIA, and a variety of older EU books dealing with Jacen and his friends, since he was to be my main character. And, of course, they send me all the NJO books.”

~ Matthew Stover, EU Author, TFN Interview, 2002

https://ibb.co/9r3GzNp

(No Lucas mentioned)

…

Regarding Lucas Sequels

“If Lucas ever gets around to making a third trilogy (and this seems to be a rather BIG “if”), he has absolutely no obligation to use the characters or stories created by the authors, nor any intention to do so, from what I’ve heard. This would probably be at least ten years down the road, so it’s hard to speculate. I don’t expect to see any of our characters appearing, but we’d be flattered if they did.”

Rebecca Moesta Anderson [Wife and Co-Author to in certain literary works, to Kevin J. Anderson, EU Author], fellow EU Author, TFN Interview, 1997

https://ibb.co/ggZhhSb

…

“In the canon debate, it is important to notice that LucasFilm and Lucas are different entities. The only canon source of Star Wars are the radio plays, the movie novels and the movies themselves - in Lucas’ mind, nothing else exists, and no authorized LucasFilm novel will restrict his creativity in any way.”

~ Steven Sansweet, Lucasfilm Author - Director of Content Management and Head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm Ltd., Star Wars Convention, Australia, 1998

SW Prequel Trilogy Mailing List, 1998 - FAQ

https://ibb.co/n762d7K

…

“Steven Sansweet was asked specifically if any of the characters like Admiral Thrawn and so on would make appearances in AoTC or the movie thereafter, and he responded quite clearly that *all the EU material is ”taking place in a separate universe”… there were quite a few nasty mumbles from the audience when he (Sansweet) said what he said.”

Steven Sansweet, EU Author - Director of Content Management and Head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm, Comic-Con, 2001

…

“When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves - and only the films.* Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas’ vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film’s production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.”

~ Steve Sansweet (and Chris Cerasi of LucasBooks), August 2001

…

“It is unfortunate that Karen Traviss is[EU author] moving on because of her opinion that canon is being changed. I guess the big problem is the assumption that her work is canon in the first place.* After working with George on The Clone Wars series I know there are *elements of her work that are not in line with his vision of Star Wars…”

~ Henry Gilroy, TCW series Head Writer [S1-2] / EU Author [Comics] Podcast Interview [Forcecast, Aug. 2008

…

Dark Empire Introduction - Kevin J. Anderson

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/2tg9rk/excerpt_from_kevin_jandersons_intro_to_the_dark/

“When you read Dark Empire, or any of the other novels [EU] remember that although Lucasfilm has approved them, these are our sequels, not George Lucas’s.”

“If Lucasfilm ever makes films that take place after Return of the Jedi, they will be George Lucas’s own creations, probably with no connect to anything we have written.”

But in the meantime, enjoy these graphic stories, read the novels of Timothy Zahn, Kathy Tyers, Kenneth Flynt, Dave Wolverton, and myself.[Kevin J. Anderson]"
…

“That said, I think George has always felt that the comics were an “alternate Star Wars universe” from the films. I don’t think he ever saw the comics as canon — although he did use them as a resource for ideas and images.”

Tom Veitch Interview, EU Author, Dark Empire Trilogy 2016
https://ibb.co/CKXHGby

…

"TVGuide: Yet novelists have written “Star Wars” sequels using the same characters and extending their stories.

“Oh, sure. They’re done outside my little universe.”

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, November 2001 - TV Guide interview

…

Question: I’m excited that Boba Fett is going to be in Episode II. Are we going to get more details about how he was once Jaster Mereel and killed another Journeyman Protector on the planet Concord Dawn before becoming a bounty hunter?

Answer: Highly unlikely.

My advice: Forget everything you knew, or thought you knew about the origins of Boba Fett. While none of us have seen a script of Episode II or have an idea of the direction in which George Lucas is taking the character, it’s fairly safe to say that he won’t be held to any of the back stories that have arisen over the years to try to explain the roots of this strong, mostly silent type. If there is any hint of Fett’s beginnings, it will be all George."

~ Steven Sansweet, Head of Fan Relations at Lucasfilm, 2000

https://ibb.co/Zf0p03K

…

"Q: Do you supervise the development of all the off-movie stories? After all, Star Wars exists in books, comics.

A: “You know, I try not to think about that. I have my own world in movies and I follow it.”
~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 2002 - From a The Force.Net

…

But like any great storyteller, George starts to develop a script and it sometimes takes on a life of its own, with characters coming to life and demanding a say. He has told us that Boba Fett will have a role in Episode II–just as Fett first appeared in the second film of the classic trilogy–so we may finally learn the bounty hunter’s true genesis. As for whether Fett really survived his descent into the cavernous maw of the Sarlacc in Return of the Jedi…what do you think?"

~ Steve Sansweet, LFL/Fan Relations, April 2000 - “Are we going to get more details about Boba Fett’s past?”, StarWars.com

https://ibb.co/Bcf0Pcm

…

George Lucas on the Sith and the Rule of Two in The Star Wars Archives, Eps I-III 1999-2005

“The Rule of Two”

George Lucas: “There was never a war between the Jedi and the Sith Lords. The Sith Lords were in control for a long time. And what happens when you have a world full of Sith Lords? They start killing each other to see who’s going to be the top Sith Lord. They don’t vote;they just kill. It’s like a medieval feudal system.”

~ George Lucas

The Star Wars Archives Eps I-III 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan

https://ibb.co/yRLmLHB

…

“ ‘The Clone Wars’ is a lot of fun for me, because in the normal course of the Skywalker saga, what happened during the Clone Wars is never told – we see a little of the beginning and a little of the end, but other than that, it’s skipped over,” Lucas said.

  • George Lucas, Flannelled One, May 2008, “George Lucas: ‘Star Wars’ won’t go beyond Darth Vader”, interview with Los Angeles Times

…

“Boba had a connection to stormtroopers. I sort of built him out of the stormtroopers, and I knew stormtroopers were clones. Exactly what that relationship was I hadn’t really established yet. I knew Boba was a clone, but I didn’t know how all of that fit together. I knew that the clones were made out of a bounty hunter, and when I got to this story, I thought “Well, gee, the best bounty hunter is Boba Fett. And rather than him maybe being a clone, he could be the originator of the clones.” Most of the pieces were there, but I actually put them all together in this one.”

~ George Lucas

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/lucas-quotes-and-interviews-about-the-starwars-saga.15943856/page-11

…

“Throughout as we go through the movie there’s all little funny moments like Jango bumping his head because in Star Wars one of the stormtroopers bumps his head on the door as they leave the control room on the Death Star and I thought wouldn’t it be funny if that’s a trait that Jango has. When he puts his helmet on and everything he can’t really see that well and so he’s constantly bumping his head and that trait gets cloned into all the stormtroopers and that’s why they keep bumping their heads.”

–George Lucas

George Lucas Commentary on AOTC, 2001

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/lucas-quotes-and-interviews-about-the-starwars-saga.15943856/page-11

…

“Lucas reconsidered going back and glamorizing the death of bounty hunter Boba Fett, a secondary character who became a cult favorite. He considered ”having Boba Fett survive and crawl out of the” mouth of the sand creature in Jedi. ”But that doesn’t quite fit in the end.””

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, Sept. 2004, USA Today interview with Mike Snider

…

"In the case of Boba Fett’s death, had I known he was gonna turn into such a popular character, I probably would’ve made it a little bit more exciting.

Boba Fett was just another one of the minions, another one of the bounty hunters and badguys. But, he became such a favorite of everybody’s that, for having such a small part, uh he had a very large presence. And now that his history has been told in the first trilogy, y’know, it makes it even more of a misstep that we wouldn’t make more out of the event of his defeat, because most people don’t believe he died anyway.

I’d contemplated putting in that extra shot in where he climbs out of the hole, but y’know I figure that’s . . . it doesn’t quite fit, in the end."

- George Lucas, Flannelled One, Sept. 2004, RoTJ DVD audio commentary (33:01)

…

Jens Bazer : What’s going on in the „Star Wars“ TV series you have announced ?

George Lucas : We plan two things : An animation series which takes place during the Clone Wars, [so] between Episode II and Episode III - we have already produces a few snippets. And a Live-Action series which is about the fate of some minor characters.

Jens Balzer : In which year …

George Lucas : … I’d think 2007 or 2008 …

Jens Balzer : … no, I mean : in which year of galactic time will the series take place ?

George Lucas : … oh, yes, between the Episodes III and VI. In the dark years after the taking over by the Emperor about which we didn’t dare to talk about so far .

Translation from the German language into the English language of an Interview with George Lucas that appeared in the Newspaper „Berliner Zeitung“, Number 114 from Mai, 19, 2005.
Interviewer : Jens Balzer.

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/lucas-quotes-and-interviews-about-the-starwars-saga.15943856/page-4

…

After that I actually [explicitely] wanted to show that the whole story was about Darth Vader and not about Luke Skywalker.

Jens Balzer : And there was no voice in your mind telling you : You must tell the people how it goes on with Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa ?

George Lucas : No, why ? They are going home and sit down watching TV.

Jens Balzer : Really ?

George Lucas : Yes, these are completely boring characters … Leia … well, Leia, she’s marrying Han Solo and becomes a housewife and gets some children; and Han Solo sits around and drinks beer and watches football games on TV … completely uninteresting [boring].

Jens Balzer : And Luke ?

George Lucas : Luke tries to ressurrect the Jedi-Order anew, which is in fact a lot of work. That’s why he always sits in his bureau and makes a lot of Jedi-paperwork except when he’s hanging around in meetings.

Jens Balzer : Super sory, in my eyes.

George Lucas : I don’t believe you want to see that.

Translation from the German language into the English language of an Interview with George Lucas that appeared in the Newspaper „Berliner Zeitung“, Number 114 from Mai, 19, 2005.
Interviewer : Jens Balzer.

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/lucas-quotes-and-interviews-about-the-starwars-saga.15943856/page-4

https://ibb.co/28xYCnv

…

Why it’s a classic

"Much like the “unmasking” (from behind) of Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back, this sequence makes us use our imagination to fill in the blanks as to what horror lies beneath the villian’s mask.

The scene also serves to redress the incorrect notion that Grievous is some sort of tragic villian - a cyborg against his will - as indicated by some sources[EU]. The macabre tone is punctuated by the humorous, nursemaid-like comments of Ay-Four-Dee [Droid].

Crucially, this scene brings Grievous in line with George Lucas’ concept for the character as a creature who, unlike Vader, willingly agreed to cybernetic enhancements!

Added horror is provided by the scream of agony as the general’s mask is painfully pulled free! Now that’s gotta hurt!"

~ Star Wars Insider 112, 2009

https://ibb.co/7SQ3J8x

…

‘Is Lucasfilm more willing to give people a greater degree of creative freedom with the Star Wars Characters now than in the past?’

“I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. We’ve been given a lot more creative freedom in that sense that we’re letting people go into time periods and spin off stories that we didn’t do before. It’s really hard to say why we didn’t do that before but we’re doing it now. We’re trying to be true to the characters and true to the situations and not do anything that would interfere with future stories that George himself wants to tell. Within the spin-offf universe that we’re creating, we are going to great lengths for there to be consistency and continuity.”

~ Howard Roffman Interview, President of Lucas Licensing, in charge of the EU,
Star wars Insider 22 [Lucasfilm Fan Club Magazine], 1994

Full page source - https://ibb.co/jDN8LTh

…

‘There’s a lot of continuity errors in the EU, and AOTC didn’t help in reducing them. We know George authorizes a lot of storylines for books, comics, etc, but does he take into account what has been done by Star Wars authors when he writes?’

“Ahhh…No.Nope. :::laughs:::He does his own thing. And than its up to us Gnomes in the background to sort of try and figure out continuity patches”

~ Steve Sansweet Interview, Director of Content Management, April 7th, 2003

http://download.theforce.net/sansweet_interview.mp3

http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/Steve_Sansweets_SW_Live_Interview_62934.asp

…

‘And more generally speaking, did you pay attention to what have been done regarding the Clone Wars (books, comics) in order to create the stories for this series?’

“I always tried to pay respect to the book and comics that chronicled the war, but George didn’t want us to be limited in any way. Still, using characters that came from the comics, like Asajj Ventress were a blast to work with and we had a lot of fun developing them further on screen.”

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer for ‘The Clone Wars’ [2008], EU author [comics], ‘The Clone Wars: Interviews Exclusives’, Aug 2008

…

Pablo Hidalgo and Dave Filoni are two very authoritative sources when it comes to Star Wars continuity, specifically that of The Clone Wars. With that in mind, their Friday panel, “The Dark Side Clouds Everything,” drew major crowds. Here’s what went down on the Behind-the-Scenes Stage.

Pablo began the panel by discussing its premise: the evolution of TCW as a series meant that discussions about canon – including how Filoni and his team interpreted and presented George Lucas’s message – were widespread. It was an important subject, and one that Dave and Pablo would explore for the next hour.

"Pablo Hidalgo talked about the discrepancies that can arise when George Lucas takes something from the EU and modifies it to fully match his vision. He said that George may borrow concepts from the EU if it suits his creative direction, but that he will often change it around. Dave discussed the fact that a lot of concepts known for their appearances in TCW actually had their roots in older materials and circumstances. Jedi Master Terra Sinube of Lightsaber Lost fame was based on concept work for a Senator. Dave stressed the fact that George keeps all manner of concept ideas around for later use. Mace Windu was originally a droid trader named Mace Windi, as many Star Wars fans know. But Pablo pointed out that you can’t tell Sam Jackson that he isn’t playing Mace Windu simply the character was actually a droid trader. Lucasfilm is trying to adapt and make old concepts modern and use groundwork laid years before in a fresh new way. And as Dave pointed out, everyone has his or her own visions of the EU because they take in this material through the printed word, without full visualizations to solidify the look of a ship, character, or planet. The hardest part of being the director of TCW, Dave said, is taking subjective content from print materials and putting it into a visual form that everyone sees in the same way.

Dave also touched on George’s vision and how that affected The Clone Wars, particularly for Season Two. He said that George described concepts for Mandalorian episodes (Duchess Satine, the planet Mandalore, and the Death Watch) very specifically. Dave joked that he would call Pablo and continuity guru Leland Chee to warn them of George’s intentions. He’d tell them that George was working on Mandalorians in a new way and that “there’s a couple of differences” from the EU in Pablo’s guides. Ultimately, Dave said, his job is to bring George’s vision to the show."

Celebration V - Dark Side Clouds Everything Panel, 2010
http://www.theforce.net/celebration/story/CV_Dark_Side_Clouds_Everything_Panel_133237.asp

…

“People don’t widely know this, but I wish they did, The Clone Wars was George’s show, those were all his stories…he has all of these incredible ideas that keep coming out and some of them are really risky.”

"Even in the Clone Wars, you see lots of things from his early scripts [for the movies] that didn’t make it in, but made it into the Clone Wars series. Sometimes world building is the enemy of narative. "

“What people don’t understand is that the Expanded Universe was always The Expanded Universe. And Dave Filoni and George when George would say “There’s Witches”, and than Dave Filoni would say “Can we call them The Nightsisters of Dathomir?”, and George would say, 'Yeah, Okay, but what is that?‘and than Dave would show him that stuff [from the EU] and if George liked it, he would cherry pick from it, and bring what he liked into The Clone Wars, but they would do there own version of it…so the stance they were taking than [In Lucas’ era] is the same stance they are taking now [in the Disney Era] they are still going to cherry pick from Legends. I’m an old school fan myself.”

There doing the same thing they always did, it’s just now they are calling it Legends."

SAM WITWER [voice actor for Darth Maul on The Clone Wars series and Starkiller from Force Unleashed.] Interview Part 2: The STAR WARS Universe, May 18th, 2016
damndirtygeeks.com Podcast

http://www.damndirtygeeks.com/?p=3595

…

In years past, the storylines that would appear in print and on screen were developed separately, resulting in an “Expanded Universe” that differed in ways large and small from the filmmaker’s “canon.” These rich stories provide a treasure trove of characters to fall in love with – and deep worlds to explore and will live on in both physical and digital editions, newly-branded as Star Wars Legends.

~ Scott Shannon, SVP, publisher, Del Rey Books 2014, StarWars.com

https://ibb.co/B4MSLpC

https://www.starwars.com/news/disney-publishing-worldwide-and-random-house-announce-relaunch-of-star-wars-adult-fiction-line

…

“We’re extremely proud of the hundreds of amazing Star Wars books we’ve published at Del Rey,” said Scott Shannon, SVP, publisher, Del Rey and Digital Content, “And now we’re excited to finally be able to call our upcoming novels true canon – a single, cohesive Star Wars storyline – all while keeping the amazing backlist of Star Wars Legends content in print.”

~ Scott Shannon, SVP, publisher, Del Rey Books 2014, StarWars.com

https://ibb.co/XbdY1Ck

…

“With that said, there is a discrepancy between Return of the Jedi novelization and the one, true, absolutely and ONLY canonical Star Wars source: the Movies.”

Star Wars Insider 57 - https://ibb.co/WpSNXDZ

…

"Q: Did George Lucas intend for Boba Fett to die in the sarlacc, despite what others may say or print?

A: Yes, in George’s view – as far as the films go – the baddest bounty hunter in the Galaxy met his match in the Great Pit of Carkoon where --unfortunately for Mr. Fett – the ghastly sarlacc made its home.

However, Lucas also approved Fett’s comeback in the expanded universe. And of course, by going back in time with the prequels, the Star Wars creator has brought Boba Fett back to life himself, albeit at a much younger age."

  • Steve Sansweet, LFL/Fan Relations, “Does Lucas Consider Boba Dead?”, StarWars.com, December 2002

https://ibb.co/ZJvfLxX

…

‘So why did George Lucas allow the Expanded Universe to continue on, if he never accepted it as canonical?’

“Licensing started after Episode I, just became this juggernaut that was making just truck loads and truck loads of money. So, you don’t bother licensing.”

~ J.W.Rinzler,Author and Editor for Lucas Licensing/Lucasbooks, 2019 -
Interview for SWNN’s “The Resistance Broadcast” -
https://ibb.co/25vCnWh

https://www.starwars.com/news/introducing-jonathan-rinzler

…

“George had bigger fish to fry. He was trying to change filmmaking with digital technology. He wasn’t going to get involved in the minutiae of the Expanded Universe. He, quite literally, had better things to do.”

~ J.W. Rinzler,Author and Editor for Lucas Licensing/Lucasbooks,
interviewed for SWNN’s “The Resistance Broadcast”

https://www.starwars.com/news/introducing-jonathan-rinzler

…

“Well in George, George couldn’t stand Mara Jade, well he just couldn’t stand, couldn’t deal and they went out and got some sort of person who looked like she’d stepped out of a Cosmopolitan to be the model Mara and he just thought the whole thing was so not Star Wars and not his vision of Star Wars and once, I forget, I think Sue Rostoni between the novels told me or anyway told me they were killing off Mara Jade and I said ‘Do I get to tell George?'”

~ J.W.Rinzler,Author and Editor for Lucas Licensing/Lucasbooks
Interview for SWNN’s “The Resistance Broadcast”

http://starwarshub.net/2019/02/01/according-to-author-j-w-rinzler-george-lucas-couldnt-stand-the-character-of-mara-jade/

…

“Mara Jade is an outstanding character, and we here at Insider thank Timothy
Zahn everyday for creating her.However, stories from the Expanded Universe books are not part of the canon of the films and therefore it is doubtful she’ll make an appearance. Having said that, we’d love to see Ms.Jade inserted in Return of the Jedi.”

~ Star Wars Insider 79, Page 7.

https://ibb.co/ZWBXWbN

(I loved Mara Jade!!!)

…

“I know that GL doesn’t create the stories and concepts for the SW novels, but does anyone know if he approves overall story ideas?”

“In general,George doesn’t see the overall story ideas or concepts. If there is a sensitive area, or if we are developing backstory for a character he’s created or mentioned in an interview, we can query him to get more information, his approval, or whatever. And yes, we always query him if we’re doing something drastic to a film character. I believe he does read the concepts for the games though.”

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), Jun 2004, StarWars.com

…

“George knows more about Star Wars than we do. He doesn’t see the Expanded Universe as ”his” Star Wars, but as ”ours.” I think this has been mentioned previously, maybe in other places, but it’s not new info, as far as I remember.”

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing
(LLP Managing Editor),2004, StarWars.com

…

‘The books have to follow the same continuity the films do, as they are an integral part of the overall story of Star Wars that Lucasfilm LTD. recognizes as a legitimate continuation of the films, right?’

Yes, the books follow the continuity of the films as best we can taking into account that George follows his own continuity, and rightly so. He’s the filmmaker.

As far as ”legitimate continuation of the films” – If George had continued making SW films past Return of the Jedi, I don’t think they would have reflected what the SW authors have written. The books, comics, etc., are a ”legitimate continuation” of the Star Wars saga as we [Lucas Licensing] define it."

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), Jan 2005 - StarWars.com forum posts [Q&A]

https://ibb.co/FqFSTrJ

…

"Does the main storyline for books and comics go through Lucas to make sure it isn’t going to conflict with future movies?

No. George doesn’t give us much information about his future movies until he’s making them. In general, George does not take the EU into account when he’s making his movies." […]

It’s our job to manipulate the EU into fitting George’s future movies, which often contradict stuff we’ve done. Not our ONLY job, of course."

~ Sue Rostoni, LucasBooks Managing Editor, July 17, 2003 - StarWars.com forum post

https://ibb.co/DpS6yHg

…

“In all honesty, when I worked with George, George’s only concerns were the films and the TV series that we were making at the time. That was the continuity we stood by. I think that’s why, as we’ve gone forward with Lucasfilm, we’ve had this attitude of: we have the films, we have The Clone Wars — those are all the canon elements. And as we move forward with all the films and with TV series like Rebels, we’ll make sure they’re all in continuity.”

~ Dave Filoni, Cult Spark Interview, 2014

https://ibb.co/zVFbr7X

…

"The nice thing I can say is, it’s all more connected than it’s ever been at Lucasfilm. Before, we would change something in Clone Wars and people would be like, “Why are you changing canon?” We’re like, “Actually, we’re not. This is the way George wants it.”

~ Dave Filoni, IGN Interview, 2014

https://ibb.co/xFKpcwZ

…

How early on did you know that the show [Clone Wars series] would be considered canon?

“Everything that I’ve worked on at Lucasfilm has been considered canon. Working on Clone Wars, it was always canon. I never really worry about it. I always figured that most things that are done in a cinematic form, whether it be television or movies, are the only things that George considered canon because it was the stuff that he helped produce. So,it made sense that this would be, as well.”

~ Dave Filoni TV Interview, 2014
https://collider.com/star-wars-rebels-easter-eggs-episode-7/

…

““For me and my training here at Lucasfilm, working with George, he and I always thought the Expanded Universe was just that. It was an expanded universe. Basically it’s stories that are really fun and really exciting, but they’re a view on Star Wars, not necessarily canon to him. That was the way it was from the day I walked into Lucasfilm with him all through Clone Wars, everything we worked on, he felt the Clone Wars series and his movies were what was actually the reality of it all, the canon,” Filoni said, “then there was everything else. So it wasn’t a big dynamic shift for me mentally when there was this big announcement saying the EU is now Legends. I’m like, ‘Okay, well, it’s kind of the same thing to me because that the way I work.’ What George and I always used to do though is look at what was out there, and you would see characters like Ventress and go, ‘My gosh, what a great character.’ People love this character. He saw Aayla Secura; He puts her in the film. So there was this great collaborative way where you could take these ideas, but you have to always kind of apply the Star Wars Cinematic Universe of what the canon is to those characters when you translate them.”

~ Dave Filoni, ComicBook.com Interview, Sept 5th, 2017
https://ibb.co/r5QfbKN

…

Do you considerThe Clone Wars canon or part of the Expanded Universe? Is the old Cartoon Network show canon? How do the two relate and where do the two series fit in the Star Wars Universe?

“That’s one of the biggest debates in Star Wars, what counts? The idea of what is canon? When I talk to George I know that he considers his movies, this series and his live-action series canon.”

But there’s never an implicit connection between the micro-series that Cartoon Network did previously and the series that we’re doing now.

~ Dave Filoni, SW:TCW, CBR Interview, 2008

Dave Filoni, SW:TCW Supervising Director, Oct. 2008, ComicBookResources.com interview with Dave Filoni (by Jami Philbrick)

https://ibb.co/Pjj9MG5

…

'Q: ‘Hi Mr Chee! I’ve got a question about continuity – are all the various different media of Star Wars (the films, TCW, the video games, the EU) intended to form a single universe, or is the EU intended as a parallel, alternate universe? I realise that fans tend to each have their own personal preferences, but I was wondering what the official Lucasfilm company policy regarding this was? Many thanks!’.

“The dual universe question comes up often. I know George Lucas has mentioned it being two universes, but that’s not how I see it. His vision is definitely not beholden to ours, but ours is definitely beholden to his.”

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Adminstrator, Facebook chat, August 2012

https://ibb.co/7JX07GC

…

‘And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe?’

“Nothing. That’s why it’s film only.”

~ Leland Chee, Continuity Database Administrator for Lucas Licensing,StarWars.com, Jan. 2nd 2007

https://ibb.co/84z7rwM

…

TFN: ‘So what is the deal with General Grievous’ origin? There’s the first version with the shuttle crash where Dooku upgraded him and there’s the new one with him choosing to upgrade himself. Why the different versions?’

Henry Gilroy: George envisioned something different than what was created for the EU and Dave and I jumped at the chance to explore that.

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCWs/ EU Author TCW TFN Interview 2008

https://ibb.co/x85NdHj

…

TFN: ‘It’s well know by now that authors and writers of other Star Wars projects are often given creative ‘boundaries.’ Assuming this is the case for the new Clone Wars series, were there any surprises to you in terms of what wasn’t off-limits?’

Henry: George gave Dave and I a lot of freedom and he didn’t want us to be limited by what the EU had established.

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCWs/ EU Author TCW TFN Interview 2008
https://ibb.co/7JkjNQ3

…

This is Star Wars, and I don’t make a distinction between The Clone Wars series and the films."

~ George Lucas, Star Wars Insider 121, 2010 about ‘The Clone Wars’ series [2008 series]

https://ibb.co/k396Y1f

…

"George is the Alpha and the Omega, and is involved in the story from beginning to end. On The Clone Wars, that means from the initial story idea until the final sound mix. I knew from the moment I got the job that The Clone Wars was going to be George’s show. My job was to execute his vision and I have always tried my best to do that.

As time went on George became more involved and wrote more stories and just about every story now comes from ‘The Maker Himself’".

~ Henry Gilroy, Head Writer TCW, EU Author [comics] Star Wars Insider 103

https://ibb.co/6ZNbFDs

…

BSR!: Are you worried that this book might fall into the wrong hands and continuity wonks will use this to further bedevil the days of Clone Wars writers?

“Nah, not at all. If anything, the book goes out of the way to remind people that The Clone Wars is an extension of George Lucas’s canonical cinematic universe, on its own tier apart from the Expanded Universe of publishing.”

~ Pablo Hidalgo ‘Big Shiny Robot’.com Interview with Bryan Young about Palbo’s EU Book - The Essential Reader’s Companion, October 12, 2012

https://ibb.co/sF3XdfF

…

‘Follow up question, sir. What would you say was the biggest misconception surrounding the Expanded Universe pre-Lucasfilm sale?’

That Lucas was closely involved with it and considered it a part of his story or was beholden to it.
That its audience was similar (or even bigger) in size to that of film/television projects."

~ Pablo Hidalgo Q&A, 2019

https://ibb.co/4jnM03T

…

As for the Force Unleashed:
Pablo Hidalgo @pablohidalgo Q&A

“He [Lucas] never considered it canon & was actively developing television material that disavowed it at the same time.”

https://ibb.co/jyct514

…

Commentator - ‘[Leland] Chee did [said that]. Roffman [Howard Roffman, President of Lucas Licensing] made some references to it being one universe even after 2008.’

Pablo Hidalgo - Licensing probably thought so because they’d keep retconning stuff to fit. George Lucas certainly didn’t think so.

Commentator- ‘Chee’s the one who said that. Where’d he get that from?’

Pablo Hidalgo - “There are two people. One says they’re dating.The other says they’re not. Who’s right?”

Commentator - ‘One last thing, why did Roffman keep saying that stuff was canon even after 2008?’

Pablo Hidalgo - “I don’t know why he’d say that.- I do think they wanted to think George would consider their storytelling.”

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2016

https://ibb.co/bbf0Gfy

…

"Now we’re going to find out about Jabba’s family and what the clones are like. The series, the epic, is about one man. It’s very narrow. This [show] allows us to get out of dealing with the psychological underpinnings of why somebody gets to be evil.

It’s too bad [we jumped over the Clone Wars before] because it’s like World War II — it’s a huge canvas to be mined. [With this series] I got to fill in a blank and go around in a universe that’s not as restrictive and not as dark."

~ George Lucas Interview - ‘George Lucas Spills All About Clone Wars at Skywalker Ranch’, 2008

https://ibb.co/VSLDMbk

…

Commentator - ‘Ki-Adi-Mundi…not a master? It’s outrageous! It’s unfair! […] Or is it no canon?’

Pablo Hidalgo - “It was an idea that publishing [Lucas Licensing - Expanded Universe] came up with when they wanted to make Ki-Adi-Mundi central to the comics at the time. They also gave Ki-Adi-Mundi a bunch of wives because they didn’t know that Jedi weren’t allowed to marry (Oops).”

Commentator - ‘It’s crazy that publishing [Lucas Licensing - Expanded Universe] wouldn’t know that.’

Pablo Hidalgo - “It was a symptom of the movie stories coming from George [Lucas] and the publishing stories [EU] trying to do their thing as well, and him [George Lucas] not feeling beholden to anything that might have made it to print.”

~ Pablo Hidalgo, Online Q&A, 2019

https://ibb.co/JdmqXQB

https://www.tumbex.com/fluffycakesistainted.tumblr/post/183244990697

…

There are 100’s more quotes like this. There was some confusion due to contradicting quotes earlier on, but they were addressed in spades. Lucas personally set the Official Star Wars canon to the 6 films and The Clone Wars series. That’s it.

We don’t have to like that, but, we don’t get to change it.

These quotes are just to try and answer to some of the confusion. - People can like whatever they want, they can head-canon whatever they want. No one is wrong for liking or disliking anything. Those are subjective view points. These quotes only speak to the official nature of things as Lucas decreed.

I won’t be checking back. Use the quotes however you like, and discuss them amongst yourselves if you wish.

I personally only care about what Lucas decreed. That’s my view point. I enjoyed alot of the material from the EU, even knowing it wasn’t actually canonical and I still play the games [Been playing SWTOR for the last 8 years].

All I’d add is that from everything that I have read, and like I said, there are 100’s more quotes like this, Lucas was consistent as hell. - I personally see the EU the same way I see Disney, Not in keeping with Lucas’s vision and not canon as far as the Maker himself is concerned, but, as to the creative worth of those things, that’s up to each individual to decide for themselves and is totally subjective. I would never gainsay anyone’s right to like or dislike anything. Even those people who think Disney’s garbage is good. =p

May the Force be with you.

Author
Time
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Post link

It can’t be disputed that George borrowed some EU concepts in The Clone Wars show and in his sequel trilogy ideas (i.e. Darth Talon), so he definitely considered it a form of source material to draw from. And its well known that he would veto ideas from EU authors if he disliked those ideas (i.e. having a clone of Vader in Dark Empire instead of Palpatine). Yes, we get that George didn’t consider it part of his own canon, but he still oversaw the EU, in large part.

And if it was never counted as Canon, then why did Disney bother to announce they were decanonizing it? The Canon “tier” system existed for a reason. EU was a lower level of Canon, and existed in a sort of grey area, but it wasn’t entirely non-canon like it is now. The binary “Canon/non-canon” distinction didn’t apply back then.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

Emre1601 said:

Some more contradictions and a bit more hypocrisy from George: Lucas is on record as suggesting doing the New Jedi Order books as the Sequels. Years later he then backtracked and claimed that was not the way he would have done it, despite it being his own actual suggestion (it also a project he worked on and contributed to). And then, rather hypocritically, years later Lucas actually used some of those early NJO ideas for his own Sequel Trilogy film treatments:

oojason said:

Don’t forget the version of the Sequels… that were novels (back in 1999):-
 

In 1999, an interview with George Lucas in Wired magazine, titled ‘Grand Illusion’… just a few months before the ‘Vector Prime’ book (from the ‘New Jedi Order’ series of novels) - began being heavily promoted (with tv advert and poster campaigns), a series of novels which Lucas himself was involved in and contributed to…

^ Grand Illusion - the full article at Wired.

 

A little more background info can be found here:-

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi
 

 

and the Total Film interview with George below from 2008:

GrimOnTheDarkside said:

“And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married.”

~ George Lucas, Total Film Magazine Interview, 2008

^ https://ibb.co/x5q1RrQ

 

When George later changed his mind and decided to try his hand on the Sequels film, his own treatments were based some of early New Jedi Order novel ideas discussed in the article below, notably the conception of the NJO and aspects of other familiar EU stories. George himself had also contributed to the NJO books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making suggestions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

The text in the above article is a ‘spoiler’. To see the text appear, double-click on the space where the text should be, to see it. Or click here for a screenshot of the article: https://i.imgur.com/6n1rNdM.png

 
 

In Summary…

 
In 1999:

Interviewer: “What about the reports that Episodes 7, 8, and 9 - which exist in novel form - will never reach the screen?”

George Lucas: “The sequels were never really going to get made anyway, unlike 1, 2, and 3, where the stories have existed for 20 years. The idea of 7, 8, and 9 actually came from people asking me about sequels, and I said, “I don’t know. Maybe someday.” Then when the licensing people came and asked, “Can we do novels?” I said do sequels, because I’ll probably never do sequels.”

George also contributed to the New Jedi Order books, having a number of meetings with the authors, instigating changes to the plot and characters, giving feedback, and making a number of other suggestions implemented by the NJO writers.
 

In 2008:

George Lucas: “And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn’t at all what I would have done it”.
 

Around 2011-12:

When George later changes his mind and decides to now try his hand at the Sequel Trilogy, his own later treatments are based some on those same novel ideas, notably the conception of the New Jedi Order, and also some other aspects of familiar EU stories.

As I’m one of the people being quoted here, I’d add more to this. Firstly, The Expanded Universe was never a part of the Official Star Wars canon in the first place. Disney didn’t 'decanonize a thing. George Lucas always maintained they were seperate universes, and that only his direct works made up the official Star Wars canon. There are no contradictions with regard to Lucas.

NJO was not his idea, and his involvemenet in it was extremely limited, not creative, and only as a favor to Lucy Wilson, whom he had a long and close relationship with prior to her moving over the Lucas Licensing.

Creators of the New Jedi Order also speak about this.

There are hundreds of quotes and interviews, some on TV that show that Lucas’s involvement in the EU was extremely limited and ceased almost entirely when he began the Prequels, that he didn’t consider the EU canon or a part of his Canonical Star Wars universe. Quotes below -

and

There are 100’s more quotes like this. There was some confusion due to contradicting quotes earlier on, but they were addressed in spades. Lucas personally set the Official Star Wars canon to the 6 films and The Clone Wars series. That’s it.

We don’t have to like that, but, we don’t get to change it.

These quotes are just to try and answer to some of the confusion. - People can like whatever they want, they can head-canon whatever they want. No one is wrong for liking or disliking anything. Those are subjective view points. These quotes only speak to the official nature of things as Lucas decreed.

I won’t be checking back. Use the quotes however you like, and discuss them amongst yourselves if you wish.

I personally only care about what Lucas decreed. That’s my view point. I enjoyed alot of the material from the EU, even knowing it wasn’t actually canonical and I still play the games [Been playing SWTOR for the last 8 years].

All I’d add is that from everything that I have read, and like I said, there are 100’s more quotes like this, Lucas was consistent as hell. - I personally see the EU the same way I see Disney, Not in keeping with Lucas’s vision and not canon as far as the Maker himself is concerned, but, as to the creative worth of those things, that’s up to each individual to decide for themselves and is totally subjective. I would never gainsay anyone’s right to like or dislike anything. Even those people who think Disney’s garbage is good. =p

May the Force be with you.

What a post!

Is it the same lengthy content as you posted on the previous page of this thread?

But I was not talking about canon or Disney. I also did not say the NJO was George’s idea.
 

I was simply highlighting that George actually suggested in 1999 doing Sequels as novels because he would never do Sequels as films.

Then nearly a decade later George stated novels isn’t the way he would have it - despite him actually suggesting it.

Then four years later using some of those same NJO Sequel novel ideas for his own later Sequel film treatments.

That was all.
 

As for your claim “Lucas was consistent as hell” - the above evidence highlights George Lucas is not consistent at all. As does the OP and theme of this thread.

(Unless you are talking about the EU/canon? I do not know enough to comment on that, but that was not what I posted about.)
 

Although this link, with quotes and citations, does highlight George Lucas’ significant input and involvement for the NJO:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsEU/comments/hr1tnz/behind_the_scenes_the_making_of_the_new_jedi

MTFBWY too.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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Don’t forget his quote circa mid 2000’s where he said the idea of a sequel trilogy was made up by the media.

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I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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At least George allowed Making Of books to be published and behind-the-scenes clips to be shown. Disney fired J.W. Rinzler.

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G&G-Fan said:

darklordoftech said:

At least George allowed Making Of books to be published and behind-the-scenes clips to be shown. Disney fired J.W. Rinzler.

Oh man, why’d they do that?

They didn’t like that he was revealing behind-the-scenes information about Star Wars.

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Servii said:

I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

George’s ideas morphed over time. But unlike Tolkien who loved the work, his languages, and spent time answering letters from fans… George seems to actively hate the fans who made the OOT a success, and doesn’t really like directing movies. The overall denial vibe is also very weird, but I think if the changes were any good people would complain a lot less. Instead it’s like he’s always working on a once classic car and all the tinkering is … well…

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Mocata said:

Servii said:

I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

George’s ideas morphed over time. But unlike Tolkien who loved the work, his languages, and spent time answering letters from fans… George seems to actively hate the fans who made the OOT a success, and doesn’t really like directing movies. The overall denial vibe is also very weird, but I think if the changes were any good people would complain a lot less. Instead it’s like he’s always working on a once classic car and all the tinkering is … well…

Yes, Tolkien didn’t try to get all the first editions of The Hobbit removed or pretend they didn’t happen. He explained that that changes were because the ring make Bilbo lie to hide it and then he fixed it later. So even the change fits into the overall story. George just seems to want to pretend that the current way is how it always was rather than let us enjoy the tale of his creative process. I prefer the tale.

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Mocata said:

Servii said:

I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

George’s ideas morphed over time. But unlike Tolkien who loved the work, his languages, and spent time answering letters from fans… George seems to actively hate the fans who made the OOT a success, and doesn’t really like directing movies. The overall denial vibe is also very weird, but I think if the changes were any good people would complain a lot less. Instead it’s like he’s always working on a once classic car and all the tinkering is … well…

I agree. To be honest, I personally think George doesn’t understand what makes the fans like Star Wars. That’s why I basically ignore everything George says and why I base my Star Wars opinions on a Death of the Author point of view, rather than a Word of God point of view. In fact, it could even said that I like Star Wars despite of Lucas’ opinions, rather than because of them. For example, I absolutely hate Lucas’ ideas about attachment and about how the Force works, I find them to be very simplistic and boring. What keeps me from saying: “Well, perhaps Star Wars is not for me as a whole” are the alternative interpretation of these subjects given by the EU authors and characters, like Vergere’s philosophy about the Force and Luke’s ideas about attachment in the Jedi Academy Trilogy and The New Jedi Order. Besides, it’s absolutely impossible to find two quotes from George that don’t contradict each other, because the man changed his mind all the time. Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

Mocata said:

Servii said:

I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

George’s ideas morphed over time. But unlike Tolkien who loved the work, his languages, and spent time answering letters from fans… George seems to actively hate the fans who made the OOT a success, and doesn’t really like directing movies. The overall denial vibe is also very weird, but I think if the changes were any good people would complain a lot less. Instead it’s like he’s always working on a once classic car and all the tinkering is … well…

I agree. To be honest, I personally think George doesn’t understand what makes the fans like Star Wars. That’s why I basically ignore everything George says and why I base my Star Wars opinions on a Death of the Author point of view, rather than a Word of God point of view. In fact, it could even said that I like Star Wars despite of Lucas’ opinions, rather than because of them. For example, I absolutely hate Lucas’ ideas about attachment and about how the Force works, I find them to be very simplistic and boring. What keeps me from saying: “Well, perhaps Star Wars is not for me as a whole” are the alternative interpretation of these subjects given by the EU authors and characters, like Vergere’s philosophy about the Force and Luke’s ideas about attachment in the Jedi Academy Trilogy and The New Jedi Order. Besides, it’s absolutely impossible to find two quotes from George that don’t contradict each other, because the man changed his mind all the time. Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.

To quote Luke in ROTJ: “I’m with you, too.”

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy

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Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.

I don’t enjoy things in Star Wars based on whether it was Lucas’ vision or not. I just like the interpretation that Anakin’s fall was not the Jedi’s fault because I think it makes Vader a stronger villain.

But I also much prefer the Disney Canon version of Vader in which he’s even more powerful then Sidious and didn’t lose potential. That completely goes against Lucas’ view of Vader. The 2017 Marvel Vader comics are my favorite Star Wars media besides the original trilogy. I don’t even really like the Prequels as much as I used to, anymore, besides ROTS and some parts of TPM.

Judging what you enjoy and don’t enjoy based on who created it is dumb. Enjoy whatever you want.

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G&G-Fan said:

Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.

I don’t enjoy things in Star Wars based on whether it was Lucas’ vision or not. I just like the interpretation that Anakin’s fall was not the Jedi’s fault because I think it makes Vader a stronger villain.

Obviously I wasn’t talking about you, I was just making a more general speech. As far as I’m concerned, I prefer the idea that Anakin’s fall was kind of everyone’s fault. Not just the Jedi’s fault, or Anakin’s fault, or Palpatine’s fault, but a mixture of them all. I like to think that it was everyone’s fault and that it was, in a way, something destined to happen anyway, no matter if it was Anakin or another Jedi. It was destined to happen anyway, because it was necessary to destroy the Old Republic to later fixing things in the New Republic and improving the Jedi under Luke’s teachings, as shown in the EU. But I also respect your opinion on the subject, of course.

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Regarding the thing about Vader always being Luke’s father, I found some info about why Lucas might have said this.

Originally, in the very early drafts, there were two characters. Kane Starkiller/Akira Valor/The Starkiller, a half-machine/half-man and Jedi-in-hiding, who is the father of the main character Annikin Starkiller (who’d later go on to be Luke Skywalker). And Darth Vader, a general for the Empire. The two characters later became combined into one.

George Lucas said:

“Well, to be very honest with you, when I wrote the very very first script it was about Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, uh, he was a rogue Jedi, and there were remnants of that [draft] that found its way into the final Star Wars.”
-MovieFone Unscripted, 2005

So from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea.

My Star Wars Fan-Edits

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G&G-Fan said:

Regarding the thing about Vader always being Luke’s father, I found some info about why Lucas might have said this.

Originally, in the very early drafts, there were two characters. Kane Starkiller/Akira Valor/The Starkiller, a half-machine/half-man and Jedi-in-hiding, who is the father of the main character Annikin Starkiller (who’d later go on to be Luke Skywalker). And Darth Vader, a general for the Empire. The two characters became combined into one.

George Lucas said:

“Well, to be very honest with you, when I wrote the very very first script it was about Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, uh, he was a rogue Jedi, and there were remnants of that [draft] that found its way into the final Star Wars.”
-MovieFone Unscripted, 2005

So from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea.

 
“Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father”?

You mean this guy, General Vader:

was always gonna be the father of this guy (Luke)?

I think the headcannon thread is here, and the time travel thread, here 😃

 

Sorry, my attempt at a joke. On a serious note I don’t quite understand what you wrote. If you mean that from watching the Moviefone video (link below), you now think because George said:

“the very very first script it was about, um, Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, er, he was a rogue Jedi, and, um, there were remnants of that that sort of found its way into the final Star Wars.”:

You state that:

“So from a certain point of view, Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father. It was just discarded but then we ended up getting something that more resembled the original idea”.

If this is what you meant, then it is indeed from a certain point of view, though probably just yours? It seems quite a stretch, some mental gymnastics occurring, or maybe just some headcannon, to me. No offence, you believe whatever it is that you want to believe. But I am not sure many others will agree with your certain point of view, based on your post above.

George is being disingenuous (to use a term from the OP of this thread) again here in this interview, because Annikin was not a rogue Jedi in “the very very first script”. We know this since in the “very very first script” Annikin is the son of the Jedi Kane Starkiller, who Kane takes to General Luke Skywalker to hopefully become Luke’s Padawan Learner and to eventually finish Annikin’s Jedi training. Nor was the “very very first script” about Annikin and his two kids. As already mentioned, Annikin was the son of Kane Starkiller - it was Kane who happened to have two kids. Annikin himself had no kids:

The full script can be read here: The Star Wars – Rough Draft - at the Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site (at StarWarz.com)

Unless you or George are referencing a different script in the interview? Can you provide a link to this script that George is describing?

 

The Q&A interview you quote can be seen in full here: “Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith’ | Unscripted | Hayden Christensen, George Lucas” 2005 video, at the Moviefone YouTube channel. The question is at 37 seconds into the video. The transcript from the relevant section of the video in full:
 

Question from Hayden Christensen:
“At what point in planning Star Wars did you decide that Darth Vader was going to be the central character?”

Answer from George Lucas:
"Well, to be very honest with you when I wrote the very very first script it was about, um, Annikin Starkiller and his two kids. And, er, he was a rogue Jedi, and, um, there were remnants of that that sort of found its way into the final Star Wars. So I would say right from the very beginning Darth Vader was a central character.”

 
I found it more interesting that George does not say that Vader was the central character in the video, or claim that the Saga was always the ‘Tragedy of Darth Vader’. Just that right from the beginning that Darth Vader was a central character. But, back on topic:

The character General Vader in the “very early drafts” was not the father of Luke. Nor was he the father of Annikin, or Kane, nor the father of any other kids. At this time Vader was ‘just’ a general for the Empire. He was not a Jedi or a Sith. He did not have any force abilities.

At some point later it seems the General Vader character was merged with this Prince Valorum character. Valorum was indeed a Sith Knight, who does use the Force, and wears a mask.

It is also feasible that at some time later some characteristics from the Jedi Kane Starkiller character, a man who slowly had become more machine than man, due to injuries from fighting over the many years, who was incidentally also the father of Annikin, also merged with the evolving character of Vader.

Then, at some point later, Vader possibly also merges (mainly the name Annikin) with Kane Starkiller’s son.

Though all four of these characters, with their various traits and attributes, merging together or being swapped out, and evolving over time (and maybe with others too?) all throughout the synopsis and early drafts of Star Wars… still does not equate to “Vader was always gonna be Luke’s father”. If anything, it further highlights this was not the case, and never was, until George Lucas wrote that 2nd draft of Empire Strikes Back in April of 1978.
 

The above text is abridged from the The Origin of Darth Vader: The Name article at the “Force Material” website. With images of the four characters drawn for “The Star Wars” comics in 2014 (based on Lucas’ 1974 rough draft).
 
 

For anyone unfamiliar when it was that George Lucas retconned Luke’s father to be Darth Vader, and hasn’t yet read the OP’s Category No 5 (this and the images above are also for me to remind myself about the evolution of Vader):

 
The first mention of Vader being Luke’s father (or being anyone else’s father), and also the first mention of Annikin/Anakin became Vader is in the 2nd draft for Empire Strikes Back, in April 1978. Even the 1st draft for Empire, written by Leigh Brackett in February 1978, it is still written as Luke’s father and Vader being two completely separate characters. This 1st draft script also has Luke’s father appearing to Luke as a force ghost and warning him of the danger posed by Vader, along with the mention of Luke’s sister, Nellith:

The Empire Strikes Back – First Draft by Leigh Brackett can be found at the Starkiller: The Jedi Bendu Script Site (at StarWarz.com)
 

Lucas is also on record in Rinzler’s Making Of book: “The thing about Vader wasn’t developed until the 4th draft [of Star Wars], when I was sorting out Vader’s real character and who he was”. Yet even here Vader and Annikin are still two completely separate characters:

 
Even in this 4th draft of Star Wars, the backstory has Vader written a disciple of Ben Kenobi, who betrayed the Jedi, and stole a kyber crystal from Ben, to become a Sith Lord. Annikin, Luke’s father, died at the Battle of Condawn, slain by Vader. Kenobi then defeats Vader, nearly killing him, and leaving Vader in need of the mask to breathe:

 
Evan over a year later, in the August 1977 Rolling Stone interview with George Lucas:

 
Lucasfilm management and employees also now state that Vader was not Luke’s father until the 2nd draft of Empire Strikes Back:

Phil Szostak, the Lucasfilm Creative Art Manager & author, in his 2019 “Star Wars Mythbusting” twitter thread:

https://twitter.com/PhilSzostak/status/1157776519923552256 (when debunking George’s “Darth Vader = Dark Father” claim)

‘Darth Vader is not Luke Skywalker’s father until the April 1, 1978 second draft of Empire Strikes Back.’:

There is a little more on the above in my recent post here: Has anyone read the book ‘The Secret History of Star Wars’ by Michael Kaminski?

 
Why not give The Star Wars comic from 2014 a read, and those early scripts for both Star Wars and Empire. I found them to be both interesting writing and stories in their own right. A “What If?” alternative universe type of thing.

Maybe give “The Secret History of Star Wars” book a read too. It has a lot of cited information on early Star Wars, including the evolution of how Vader came to be.

 

 

Out of curiosity, why did you delete this part of your post here after a month?:

“You guys on here are only angry and upset about George changing and retconning Star Wars history because he won’t release the OOT”

^ I am paraphrasing that above, as I do not remember the exact words you used.

If you still genuinely think this, I would urge you to look through the history of this forum, read the old posts from the time, or the general round up in the ‘Other websites / communities supposed issues with the OT•com, the Original Trilogy, or the unaltered theatrical cuts.’ section of An Index & Help Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion. It may help you learn more about the history of this forum, and why people on here appear to have always thought highlighting George Lucas altering Star Wars history is important. Some even wrote books and helped make or contribute to documentaries on it.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.