Stardust1138 said:
Omni said:
Would like to point out that HelloGreedo’s community is very civil and nice, and that he himself has mostly turned around on his early, PT hating years, which should paint an accurate picture of how PT fans are treated now vs. how they were treated then. I do believe the Ring Theory is a major stretch, but with honest roots in Lucas trying to tie together the saga visually and obviously story-wise as well, to varying degrees of success. But Plinkett is a major no. In his TPM video he claims the opening shot of the original Star Wars is “so brilliant Lucas must have had nothing to do with it.” Stoklasa, not playing the character, in a regular video with “People vs. George Lucas” director claimed that “Lucas is, second only to Ringo Starr, the luckiest person in show-biz.” Amazes me how people still point to him for great critiques. Fucking idiot.
It’s this desperate attempt to minimize everything Lucas has ever done. Stardust and people like them to my understanding are simply over-compensating now, for the overwhelming hate Lucas received since 1997 but especially since 1999. That’s really Lucas’s story is all about, sadly. After the OT and the Indy trilogy Lucas became a legend. A man that has written and produced several incredible films, and directed three excellent films, American Graffiti and Star Wars both considered to be two of the best there’s ever been. Of course he was a legend.
And of course there was never a world where he’d live up to it. Then came the SEs, then came the PT, then came Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and the rest is history. People turned on him, demonized him, grown ass men claiming that Lucas “r***d their childhood”. Really disgusting stuff. Constant harassment, etc etc.
And now we have the Stardusts of the world, people that grew up loving all the man did and still love him, and will defend him to death, probably a lot more because of how minimized he’s been over the years. Sure there’s the oojason “time travelling revisionist” thread, which can be seen by some as a response to Lucas’ “efforts of burying history” over time, but when people come to this website and that thread stands tall, with no “praising George Lucas” or “a moment to thank George Lucas” thread next to it, it paints an obvious picture on how the community views him. Essentially the same thing Stoklasa is saying - a lucky hack that’s done nothing right. Of course that’s absurd. He wrote, produced and directed Star Wars and Graffiti. He wrote and produced TESB, ROTJ and the four Indy films. The man is talented, an amazing writer (even if not necessarily screenwriter) and a very competent director. He made three very different films in his middle age but that doesn’t change what he did when he was younger. I think failing to recognize that is what makes Stardust come here claiming he’s a man of singular vision and that he’s right when everyone is wrong.
Of course, Stardust’s position just keeps feeding on this vicious cycle which will probably never end. Again, we should probably all learn something from Lucas’ playbook - which unsusprisingly is the same as the Jedi playbook - and learn to let go a bit.
You pretty much nailed how I feel in a general sense. I’m really glad first off to hear HelloGreedo’s approach has evolved honestly as I remember watching his videos back in the day where he detailed the changes made to each movie. I merely found them interesting to see how they evolved and grew. I wasn’t watching him to be critical of George Lucas changing his story. I watched them as I liked seeing the development process from what we saw in 1977 to at that point 2011. I’ll always defend George. I owe him so much but he doesn’t owe me anything back. He made a collection of stories outside of just Star Wars that I love too. I love his creative vision and will always defend his and anyone’s artistic integrity over a corporation telling stories or fans telling you what is wrong with your story. I can’t be mad at him. There’s things I’d do differently but I don’t find it’s my place to go on message boards detailing everything I feel is wrong. I’m a generally speaking very positive person with rare instances where I can resort to cynicism. I’m merely with Star Wars and George Lucas sharing complete context to the partial information sometimes claimed to be passed off as absolute fact. I’m guilty of it too. Do I go a little far and do I take responsibility? I absolutely do. I know I’m not perfect and I know my prospective will offend people sometimes but my take on Star Wars is more aligned with following George’s lead versus a fan’s prospective. I love being a fan but sometimes I think as a fan we forget that we aren’t the ones who make these things. I’ll contradict myself sometimes as George does but that’s because I too don’t always have full context. I’m very invested in learning about George and his way of creating stories. I’ve watched nearly everything I can about him on YouTube that isn’t clearly biased. I’ve also watched and read multiple interviews with him. I’ve read books about him and his collaborators. I don’t see him as some cynical man who wanted to hurt anyone or that changed that much as he always had story as the first thing in his mind. He was merely trying to expand the palates to tell those stories with the Prequels. He’s spoken of this and even said he doesn’t like technology all that much. He just didn’t make films like some wanted as they grew up to have different tastes than the different tone and prospective given to his later films. This isn’t a bad thing. We grow and change as we get older. George changed but not in the ways most think. What’s not okay though is acting like he damaged your childhood. He did no such thing. He instead gave Star Wars to another generation and now for better or worse we have Disney doing the same thing. Star Wars has to grow and evolve. It may not be in the ways we always want it to be but we can try accepting it and letting go. We can always see another side to the story. I just tend to value George’s viewpoint more than a fan or anyone else as George is the absolute when it comes to his creations. No one knows Star Wars better than the man who created it.
I sincerely apologise to everyone I offended. I truly am sorry but I also feel the whiplash shouldn’t be squarely put on me as the only one responsible. We can all go a little far sometimes.
That is a lot of words to say you are not going to open your mind to what others have been repeatedly saying to you for some time. Or read acknowledge and accept the facts and sources given to you by others on here. And that instead you will continue to post with the same attitude and style as you previously have.
As Darth Retcon posted above: It appears you are only interested in sources that confirm your own bias or reinforce your one-sided and limited opinions. And refusing to engage in discussions with members on here in good faith, even insulting them on occasion, and also this website.
Nobody is “going too far” on here except you. You have been repeatedly told this, but you continue regardless.
Edit:
I have copied and pasted much of my more detailed reply below from others on here. This is because I did not want to spend too much time and effort on someone who continues to be unwilling to read and consider what is being presented to them. And ignores much of what is being discussed, showing no application or desire to change or adapt, or post in good faith.
Stardust1138 said:
I’ll always defend George. I owe him so much but he doesn’t owe me anything back. He made a collection of stories outside of just Star Wars that I love too. I love his creative vision and will always defend his and anyone’s artistic integrity over a corporation telling stories or fans telling you what is wrong with your story. I can’t be mad at him. There’s things I’d do differently but I don’t find it’s my place to go on message boards detailing everything I feel is wrong. I’m a generally speaking very positive person with rare instances where I can resort to cynicism. I’m merely with Star Wars and George Lucas sharing complete context to the partial information sometimes claimed to be passed off as absolute fact.
What are you defending George from? The truth and facts on highlighted by this website and the member on here?
It appears so, given your attitude to members on here and this forum, and unwillingness to learn from people providing you information as to the factual history of Star Wars, not the re-written history George has twisted, selectively chosen and retconned. And your posting of pre-George content, expecting people to watch or read these, yet also ignoring the wider and factual content provided to you by others on here.
I’m guilty of it too. Do I go a little far and do I take responsibility? I absolutely do. I know I’m not perfect and I know my prospective will offend people sometimes but my take on Star Wars is more aligned with following George’s lead versus a fan’s prospective. I love being a fan but sometimes I think as a fan we forget that we aren’t the ones who make these things. I’ll contradict myself sometimes as George does but that’s because I too don’t always have full context. I’m very invested in learning about George and his way of creating stories. I’ve watched nearly everything I can about him on YouTube that isn’t clearly biased. I’ve also watched and read multiple interviews with him. I’ve read books about him and his collaborators.
Yet you refuse to accept facts and evidence presented on here that would provide you a fuller context, “the bigger picture”, and willfully twist facts provided to you. You often often talk about growing, learning, and understanding - but it is actually you yourself who is not willing to do this, when you ignore such truths. Instead it appears you are only interested in sources that confirm your own bias or reinforce your one-sided limited views and opinions. And refusing to engage in discussions with members on here in good faith, even insulting them on occasion, and also this website.
I don’t see him as some cynical man who wanted to hurt anyone or that changed that much as he always had story as the first thing in his mind.
Many on here do not see him as a cynical man or wanting to hurt people either. Do not put words in our mouths, thank you.
He was merely trying to expand the palates to tell those stories with the Prequels. He’s spoken of this and even said he doesn’t like technology all that much. He just didn’t make films like some wanted as they grew up to have different tastes than the different tone and prospective given to his later films. This isn’t a bad thing. We grow and change as we get older. George changed but not in the ways most think. What’s not okay though is acting like he damaged your childhood. He did no such thing. He instead gave Star Wars to another generation and now for better or worse we have Disney doing the same thing.
Nobody on here thinks George has “damaged our childhoods”. Why are you on here if you think this of the website and people on here? Please, do no place more words in our mouths. What he has done, as some have posted on here, is:
George Lucas in 1997: “…What ends up being important in my mind is what the DVD version is going to look like, because that’s what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movies that anyone will remember will be the DVD [of the Special Edition].”
"We find that above statement from George to very disconcerting - it is, in effect, an effort to willfully suppress and eradicate landmark film history - as well as inadvertently denigrating audience’s memories and experiences from the unaltered version that existed for some twenty years. To say nothing of these being the original version of the three films upon which the entire Star Wars universe was built on.
An artist shouldn’t be able to change what the audience remembers. We don’t think an artist has the right to arbitrarily change the experience of the film from what people saw. Once it is released to the audience, it belongs with the audience. To interpret and to remember." link
Star Wars has to grow and evolve. It may not be in the ways we always want it to be but we can try accepting it and letting go. We can always see another side to the story. I just tend to value George’s viewpoint more than a fan or anyone else as George is the absolute when it comes to his creations. No one knows Star Wars better than the man who created it.
Many on here appear to value truth and facts above hero worship, or unquestioning blind loyalty. As above, it appears you are only interested in sources that confirm your own bias or reinforce your one-sided limited views and opinions. Ignoring sources of information and facts presented to you to to give a fuller and more accurate factual account of Star Wars history.
As Anchorhead said about this website in the post below:
"This site exists almost solely as a way to try to get the original films released and in the absence of that, find ways to try and preserve them. That cataloging of the lies is something that should be at the forefront of what we do here. We’re one of the only places bothering with the truth and the facts to back up the discussions.
Obviously we appreciate his work. That’s why we’ve spent years trying to get it released and preserved. link
It is also worth remembering that creatives Kershner and Marquand directed Empire and Jedi respectively, yet neither The Empire Strikes Back or Return Of The Jedi are available as their respective directors intended, or indeed made, on a modern and quality digital format.
Star Wars is far more than George. On here, many other people’s contributions to early Star Wars are noted, discussed and praised. Including people George has diminished, if not outright erased from his re-written official Star Wars history.
I sincerely apologise to everyone I offended. I truly am sorry but I also feel the whiplash shouldn’t be squarely put on me as the only one responsible. We can all go a little far sometimes.
Not just offended, but have insulted too, as you did to Ken-Obi. Who you later started an argument with, and claimed he was gaslighting you, when in fact you were trying to portray yourself as a victim after completely mistaking what he wrote, for what you thought he wrote, and you couldn’t bring yourself to apologize for.
Darth Retcon: “There is the glib and oft-repeated: “we can all go a little far sometimes”. You do this. Nobody else on here does. Noteworthy that there is more emphasis on others ‘doing wrong too’ than any genuine apology from you.” I agree with this. It is another “glib” apology, again trying to place blame on others here too. “Whataboutery”.
Ken-Obi and others on here have the following, or similar: ‘Countless Prequel fans are on here, or people who simply appreciate the Prequels, or who like and respect George, all get on fine with everyone and there is no problem. People worth talking with, engaging with and learning from, all done with respect, for some time now.’
The above is not you.
Yet you already know what has been posted in here. You have previously and repeatedly told this by many on here, but you continue regardless.
