The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 401

Jar Jar Bricks said:

ThisIsCreation said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I agree as well, but that’s slightly out of my talents haha.

I tried your new line and it sounds completely natural now. But it does feel a little squished. Needs some space to breath.

id like to hear the newer version you made.

Also Nev, I’m not entirely sure why you feel they are no longer a master/apprentice. She is still being taught by Leia, and if he weren’t dead, he would still be her master.

I’m not saying they aren’t master/apprentice, just that their relationship doesn’t need to be stuck at that level.

It would be like Luke returning to Dagobah only for Yoda to say ‘The final exam I have for you Padawan Skywalker, multiple choice, it is’. No, he gets right to the final task.

Neerb said:

I think “It was fear that kept me here” is better where it is than replacing it with “lesson three.” Fear did keep Luke there, after all. Fear that the Jedi have done more damage than good and need to die out (at the height of their power the Jedi created Darth Vader), fear of facing those he had failed (admitted as shame in the Ben flashbacks), fear of his own creations (it didn’t scare him enough then, it does now). His belief that his self-exile is a penance and a self-sacrifice for the greater good means it’s not exactly “cowardice,” but it all still comes from a dark place of fear, from a certain point of view.

Luke’s main thing though - why he isolated himself, why he cut himself off from the Force, why he wanted the Jedi to die, why he wouldn’t face Ben again - was shame. Luke says that very explicitly.

“It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame. And the last thing I saw, was the eyes of a scared, young boy whose master had failed him.

But also, Rian Johnson took a lot of care and effort and attention when writing TLJ to make sure Luke wasn’t being a coward: https://comicbook.com/starwars/news/star-wars-the-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-coward/

Even if we can sit comfortably with the retcon, it still feels very much disingenuous to the character. And, if I’m being honest, pretty insulting to Rian, who worked very hard to honor a legend both in-universe, and out of it.

All of it for one sentence that’s ultimately throwaway…

I definitely want to keep Rey’s lessons on fear; I just think we can do that without dishonoring both Luke and Rian. We don’t even need “Lesson three” to do it; I just think it would be a nice touch.

EDIT: I’ll post some mockups later tonight, to show how it would work.

EDIT 2: Congrats, boys and girls, we’ve hit 400 pages! Dear god, that’s insane…

The sound of “lesson three” sounds great, but yeah, it’s squished in and doesn’t feel organic at all.

I’d like to see it while he is walking to the log and says the line. You don’t see his mouth and there is plenty of time to put it in and it will sound natural.

It’s hard to imagine getting it to sound like it should. I’m not sure how to describe what I mean. It sounds like he’s reading from a list. “Lesson two, lesson three, lesson four…”
I’d buy that audio-work in TLJ, but I just don’t think it’d be theater-worthy in the context of TROS. I’m sorry. 😦

To be clear, it’s not the audio work, it’s the material available to process.

Could you send me (or post here) just the “lesson three” snippet? I can implement it how it’d be if it were included and pitch it to the collective.

Are the VFX for the crackling saber done yet? I don’t think it has been done for when Rey fights her Sith self.

Also, happy late 400 pages!

^ It’s not totally finished, but that scene in particular has been.

AntonioGK said:

I’ve read about the crackling saber VFX, but could someone please tell me more about it? Why and where is gonna be done?

It will be applied to Luke’s blue saber in every scene to imply that Rey’s repair wasn’t fully successful in fixing the broken crystal, and also to thematically illustrate her fear of an inner darkness in the film.

Alrighty, I’ve done up four different versions of this exchange, because why not, right? That’s normal and healthy behavior. All of them remove Luke’s one line of “It was fear that kept me here.” Honestly, seeing it in practice, I like it even more this way - not only does it avoid (arguably) ignoring Luke’s feelings of guilt in the previous movie, not to mention undoing one of Rian Johnson’s fundamental goals when writing Ep. VIII - but it allows Luke’s declaration of “I was wrong” to hang in the air. The added space gives Rey (our protagonist) a moment of genuine self-reflection, one that is no longer interrupted by Luke’s prattling.

Version 1 - The Basic Trim: https://streamable.com/3qr20n
This version cuts out Luke’s one line, and then tightens the space around it a little to avoid excessive dead space.

Version 2 - The Early Cutoff: https://streamable.com/wqo8f2
Luke interrupts Rey’s explanation, deciding not to entertain her flawed justifications. This version also plays with a slightly redone version of Luke’s “I was wrong” line, where I repitched it a little and made the word “wrong” a bit louder, to make Luke sound more forceful. (It’s less, "Oh yeah, I was wrong about that. Sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ " and more “You moron, don’t you remember that I was wrong? You’re the one who told me that in the first place!”)

Version 3 - The Early Lesson Three: https://streamable.com/muk1wo
Luke frames their entire conversion around his long-promised Third Lesson to Rey - finding her courage, and embracing her title as a Jedi. For this version, I decided to reverse the shot of Rey between “I was wrong” and “What are you most afraid of” - Now she looks up at Luke when he mentions “Lesson Three.”

Version 4 - The Later Lesson Three: https://streamable.com/4742xw
Luke talks about fear and courage, and then imparts one final wisdom to her as his Third Lesson.

Both Versions 3 and 4 feature a slightly retouched version of Jar Jar’s “Lesson Three” cleanup, which was based on JXEditor’s design. I’ve run the “three” through a compressor to balance out the audio levels a little bit more, and I condensed/overlapped the gap between the words slightly to try and make it flow better. I also performed some noise reduction on the word “Lesson,” because there was some slight music in the background that I was noticing with the absence of music in Early Lesson version. We can play with that though.

These can also be mixed and matched depending on how people feel about them. Maybe you like the early cutoff in Version 2, but you also want to incorporate “Lesson Three” somewhere? Or you like the idea of the Early Cutoff, but you’d prefer it more with the original “I was wrong” audio track? Maybe you hate it all!

I’m curious what everyone thinks!

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

Sherlock, you’re an absolute madman. lmao.

Personally speaking, I’m a fan of Option 4 with a little bit of Option 2 thrown in (I LOVE the interrupting Rey idea). However, like Hal, I still think the “It was fear that kept me here” line should still be in it. I’m about as much of a TLJ fanboy as you can ever find (having had MANY heated arguments with my anti-TLJ friends about it). With that said, I’ve never really had a problem with that line and I don’t think it really goes against anything Johnson was doing in his film. Also, I understand what you’re going for with the pause. But as it stands in each clip you posted, it just seems kind of awkward. I think it would just be best to keep the line intact where it’s at.

Another criticism I have is that the “Lesson Three” line in the fourth clip sounds a bit wonky to me. Oddly enough, I didn’t notice it sounding so weird in the third clip. But it’s definitely noticeable in that last one.

Lol I appreciate the feedback! That’s strange that Version 4 sounds iffier than Version 3, considering that it’s the same track, but now masked with music. Perhaps because it’s somewhat softer than the following “Confronting fear…” line, so the insertion is more noticeable? I could do a little more work mixing that in.

The gap could definitely be closed more on the line removal. I think my main issue with it is that Rian has talked a lot about how he didn’t want Luke to be hiding on the island out of fear; and after how much hate he already got from the fandom for “disrespecting Luke Skywalker”…I dunno, it feels like we’re not giving Rian the credit he deserves by undoing that.

For me, it’s another one of those things in TROS that just feels disrespectful towards TLJ, you know? Personally, I found that meta-feeling throughout the film as aggravating as the plot contrivances. But of course, if I’m outvoted on this, I’m outvoted. Fair’s fair. ☺️

Calling it fear or not is just semantics imo. Luke’s fear in TROS could be referring to the night he ignited the lightsaber in front of Ben, that was fear of what was going on in Ben’s head that caused him to do that. And he wanted the Jedi to end because of his fear that things would forever circle around again and again. Calling it “fear” doesn’t make him a wussy or anything, no matter what the fanboys say. Your editing is well done and clever, but it’s not a suitable replacement to me still. (I don’t think changing it is too necessary to begin with, so take what I say with a grain of salt, because I’ll be hard to convince lol.)

sherlockpotter said:
I’m curious what everyone thinks!

This is good stuff. Version 4 definitely sounds the most, though I’m partial to him cutting her off because I love seeing Hamill being sassy, even artificially (and because yeah, obviously Rey should know he was wrong). Version 1 seems a little empty, while #3 is too crowded, and it doesn’t seem like “lesson 3” should start with a question like that.

Ironically however, the removal of “It was fear that kept me here”, which I’m obviously still in favor of, creates the issue of “What are you most afraid of” feeling slightly non-sequitur. Or, at least, it seems too obvious to me that the line was preceded by something different than just “I was wrong”. I’m tempted to say “What are you so afraid of” might flow better, but I might be overthinking.

Honestly, it’s becoming more and more impressive to me just how knotted-up the problems with this movie’s writing are. I don’t think I would have felt as offended as I did in 2019 had Ascendant (with the changes being worked on) been the theatrical cut, but man this is a real fixer-upper of a film.

I really don’t plan to trim Luke’s dialogue further than in V1, and I like his line about fear. I appreciate you mocking those up.

And I just don’t think the “lesson three” works in practice. It’s a nice idea and effort, for sure, but it just doesn’t feel right when I look at it in context. Seems weird for Luke to go there.

I’m gonna go ahead and put the Luke conversation to bed.