logo Sign In

The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 398

Author
Time

Burbin said:

Beyond the “taking one last look” moment the film treats 3PO’s memory wipe as a joke, probably because it’s not permanent and so it’s not meant to be taken too seriously. But if he didn’t get his memory back it would feel even more jarring/disrespectful how the other characters don’t seem to care much about it and how the film constantly makes a joke out of it.

He’s had his memory permanently wiped before, and that was treated as a joke too.

Author
Time
  • I do like TestingOutTheTest’s interpretation of Rey’s arc, but I don’t think her giving the lightsaber to Leia (and then getting it back a few minutes later) actually does anything for it. It feels totally half-baked, like an idea JJ and Terrio had but then forgot to expand on and just left in anyway. I also prefer the implication that Rey has been struggling with her training and ‘making excuses’ about it for a while, whereas leaving it in sort of makes it seem like this is the first time. I’m also not the biggest fan of the importance the films place on that saber to begin with; Luke only used it for a few years, long before he became a legendary Jedi Master, so it’s much more iconic in the real world than it ever was in-universe - it feels like another symptom of JJ’s love for the OT sort of meta-infecting the universe itself (see also “this is the ship that made the Kessel run in 14 parsecs!”), but that’s a whole different discussion.

Rey only gets the saber back for the trip to Pasaana because she needs something to defend herself with.

  • I still believe editing TROS such that Rey’s parents were always bad people is feasible. Rey can still be mad that Palpatine killed them, even if they were terrible people. She does have reasons to hate him other than that too, such as him being Space-Hitler, his corrupting influence on Ben (to whatever extent she’s aware of that), and even surface-level stuff like Luke telling her she has to face him. I think the toughest question to answer with this change would be what was mentioned previously: why wouldn’t Rey’s parents give her up to save themselves? I think there’s a few ways you could come at that. Perhaps Rey’s Dad and his wife hated Palpatine so much they were willing to withhold that information just to spite him, even if it meant their own deaths, as someone (Jar Jar Bricks?) suggested earlier in the thread. It’s still essentially a sacrifice to save Rey, but it leaves them morally grey rather than having them be retconned into the loving parents that Rey wishes they were. Or maybe they did try to sell Rey out, but didn’t know exactly where she’d wound up - I’m sure there’s plenty of Jakku outside Niima Outpost - so Ochi killed them anyway. It does get a little contrived, I admit, but it’s not like this movie’s plot is rock solid as is, and I personally think it’s worth it to avoid undermining the TLJ reveal.

I proposed (mostly before) that, while they hated Rey for being a Palpatine and feared of what she’d become due to a combination of her Force-sensitivity and her heritage and wanted her to suffer for this, they also wanted to ensure Palpatine is unable to use Rey for the Sith ritual.

Also, to DC, how would “the birth of her son” be an effective motivation for Leia to quit her training, exactly?

Author
Time

The amount of Mothers I know that quit their job or one of their jobs when they have a kid is astoundingly high.

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

Author
Time

Tagging on “your spirit, your heart” after “because you’re a Palpatine” doesn’t work with the footage available. But that’s okay, I still don’t think it would’ve been needed. So we can put that to rest.

My stance on revising fan edits.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hal 9000 said:

Tagging on “your spirit, your heart” after “because you’re a Palpatine” doesn’t work with the footage available. But that’s okay, I still don’t think it would’ve been needed. So we can put that to rest.

Didn’t think it would. Thanks for trying though!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The thing about “It didn’t scare me enough then. It does now”…that wasn’t why Luke went to Ahch-To. That was him underestimating how deeply Ben would descend into the Dark Side. But he didn’t have an existential crisis because he was scared of some punk kid with daddy issues; he had an existential crisis because of what he almost did to the punk kid (with daddy issues). “It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame… and with consequence. And the last thing I saw… were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him.”

Of course, we could just be overthinking this line in TROS. Rather than try to ret-con yet another thing from TLJ, or do a dialogue reconstruction (which I know you’re understandably iffy about, Hal), we could simply cut the scene like this:

Rey: I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you did.
Luke: I was wrong…what are you most afraid of?

He acknowledges his past mistake, and then immediately gets to work trying to help Rey. It might also be helpful to trim/overlap the space between their lines, as if Luke doesn’t want to hear her petty excuses, and wants her to start being honest with him about what she’s doing here.

“I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you di-”
“I was wrong. [beat] What are you most afraid of?”

As for the purple sunrise, trust me, I have no intention of taking over Nev’s incredible work. It’s just an idea I had, and I wanted to put together a quick example of how it might look. So just as a general question, do people like the idea of a purple-tinged sunrise? Or do we think the current yellowy version is better?

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

Author
Time

sherlockpotter said:

“I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you di-”
“I was wrong. [beat] What are you most afraid of?”

You know… throw in a “Lesson Three” from that one TLJ deleted scene right before that beat and we might have something cooking there… 😉

Author
Time

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

sherlockpotter said:

“I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you di-”
“I was wrong. [beat] What are you most afraid of?”

You know… throw in a “Lesson Three” from that one TLJ deleted scene right before that beat and we might have something cooking there… 😉

Why don’t I remember that line? But honestly…

“I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you di-”
“I was wrong. [beat] Lesson Three [Rey looks up] What are you most afraid of?”

That would be really good. Ties up a loose end from TLJ too, and creates a bonus through line between the two films.

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

If you were going to imply this was her third lesson, I think you also could word it like, “Lesson Three: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny…” But that makes sense too, like he is beginning her third lesson.

Author
Time

sherlockpotter said:

Why don’t I remember that line? But honestly…

“I’m never leaving this place. I’m doing what you di-”
“I was wrong. [beat] Lesson Three [Rey looks up] What are you most afraid of?”

That would be really good. Ties up a loose end from TLJ too, and creates a bonus through line between the two films.

RogueLeader said:

If you were going to imply this was her third lesson, I think you also could word it like, “Lesson Three: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny…” But that makes sense too, like he is beginning her third lesson.

Either one of these would work solidly.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I took Luke’s lack of a direct third lesson intentional on his behalf (and on the meta narrative’s behalf). Her third lesson is doing things on her own. Her failures (to try to bring Kylo back) are hers to discover, not follow the prescribed jedi way; whatever that one theoretically would be.
In a way, it’s similar to how Obi-Wan “cannot interfere” with Luke vs Vader on Bespin. That was a teaching moment for Luke, and now it’s an unspoken teaching moment for Rey. It’s for them to get through. They can’t have their hands held anymore, and both Rey and Luke learn terrible truths about themselves and their heritage because of this.

Or maybe her third lesson is to realize that she will not be the last Jedi, and that she indeed has purpose in that sense?

It’s now up for interpretation now that the original third lesson scene is deleted, and I think it’s much better that way. Besides, Luke and ghost Yoda’s philosophy is to look past an old set of Jedi books (ie, don’t just follow a dogmatic list of three lessons.)

Point is, I don’t think it’s totally necessary to include talks of Luke’s third lesson in TROS. That was a TLJ thing, and, to me at least, it’s over with. But if everyone else thinks it works and is necessary to round this story out and whatnot, then go for it. I feel like they would have included him saying it in the actual film if it was totally necessary here. (unless they just forgot and would have included it…)

Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!

Author
Time

I think the explanation for the lack of third lesson is that Luke just never got to it. Rey left in anger to go save Kylo after Luke got pissed and destroyed the hut after he saw them hand touching. That’s why they deleted the Caretaker Village scene, to make Rey leave more abruptly after it seemed like her training was going well. So you could include it in TROS, but I don’t think it’s necessary.

Author
Time

I don’t mean to shut down discussion but I will not cut the lines about fear. I find them meaningful and not at odds with the story so far. (Not that this should impact our decision making, but I’ve referred to these lines in conversations with people about parts of themselves they ‘exile away’ due to fear of what they might do or unleash.)

I have a hard time imagining the lines cohering in order to actually work in practice, but I like the idea of Luke saying “lesson three” in a gentler voice than in the TLJ deleted scene right before “confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi”.

And I don’t mind the idea of a slightly purple tinged sunrise, but only if it looks good. I’ll see what Nev thinks and does.

My stance on revising fan edits.

Author
Time

Why do people misinterpret the lessons from TLJ so much? They weren’t about training Rey, they were intended to explain to her as to why the Jedi are inherently flawed.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

TestingOutTheTest said:

Why do people misinterpret the lessons from TLJ so much? They weren’t about training Rey, they were intended to explain to her as to why the Jedi are inherently flawed.

Why do you act like everyone else is an idiot so much? Frequently you’re reacting in this thread like you have the only valid interpretation and those who have alternative interpretations are wrong, or worse, inferior.

Your opinions on these movies are absolutely welcome. Your arrogant dismissal of other people’s opinions is absolutely not. Please learn to have a civil discussion. I’ll get you started: “I respectfully disagree - let me draw your attention to…”

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

Author
Time

Yes, please listen to Eddie about that.

Interesting point though; I guess the three lessons in TLJ (including deleted scene) aren’t the same sort of straightforward lessons that TROS Luke gives.

My stance on revising fan edits.

Author
Time

Any changes that make the trilogy feel more connected should be encouraged.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

It would be a, not sure what to call it, but a way to “connect” to TLJ making a connection about ‘the’ third lesson.

Of course the lessons back in TLJ was to disuade Rey from training as a Jedi, or “prove” the Jedi were wrong, but it would be a fun “twist” he plays on the lack of the third lesson (since Rey left) from the last movie and “converts it” to an actual “Jedi good/right” lesson.

Kinda would be a fun play on the whole lessons thing from the last movie.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

jarbear said:

Of course the lessons back in TLJ was to disuade Rey from training as a Jedi, or “prove” the Jedi were wrong, but it would be a fun “twist” he plays on the lack of the third lesson (since Rey left) from the last movie and “converts it” to an actual “Jedi good/right” lesson.

Kinda would be a fun play on the whole lessons thing from the last movie.

This is what I was thinking jarbear. This totally would NOT have been the third lesson he gave her on the island if she hadn’t left, but rather it is him sort of making fun of his previous self. He is correcting what his lessons should have been about basically.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

jarbear said:

It would be a, not sure what to call it, but a way to “connect” to TLJ making a connection about ‘the’ third lesson.

Of course the lessons back in TLJ was to disuade Rey from training as a Jedi, or “prove” the Jedi were wrong, but it would be a fun “twist” he plays on the lack of the third lesson (since Rey left) from the last movie and “converts it” to an actual “Jedi good/right” lesson.

Kinda would be a fun play on the whole lessons thing from the last movie.

Yeah, branching off of what Jar Jar said, if this became Luke’s “third lesson,” not only would it help to push Rey’s arc forward in this movie, but it would also act as a sort of epilogue to Luke’s arc in the last. He’s finally embraced the true meaning of being a Jedi. We’re not trying to stop the film from discussing fear, Hal - the lines about confronting fear are meaningful - we’re trying to find a way to make it more homogeneous with Luke’s story in TLJ. Luke was bitter in the last film; he should be a more positive force now, and not be dwelling on his old mistakes.

And the term you’re looking for, jarbear, is “through line”!

EDIT: Which deleted scene is it that Luke gave his Third Lesson?

The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!

Author
Time

sherlockpotter said:

EDIT: Which deleted scene is it that Luke gave his Third Lesson?

So I don’t think Luke actually ever says, “Lesson Three”. You would have to splice together “Lesson Two” and “Three Lessons” from the movie.

The caretaker village sequence was never really the third lesson, it was more of an extension of the second.

Author
Time

jarbear said:

It would be a, not sure what to call it, but a way to “connect” to TLJ making a connection about ‘the’ third lesson.

Of course the lessons back in TLJ was to disuade Rey from training as a Jedi, or “prove” the Jedi were wrong, but it would be a fun “twist” he plays on the lack of the third lesson (since Rey left) from the last movie and “converts it” to an actual “Jedi good/right” lesson.

Kinda would be a fun play on the whole lessons thing from the last movie.

Yeah. This was basically my thinking on including a “Lesson Three”.

Author
Time

I actually really like lesson 3. It shows Luke’s isolation is making him cynical and selfish. It’s like Rey gave him a wakeup call at this moment. https://youtu.be/-He5_RtDE1o

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

Promote your own Fanedits here: https://www.reddit.com/r/moviesremastered/

MR Discord Community (Only taking fanedit requests via Discord with proof of ownership/subscription) - https://discord.gg/EBdQVXhDUh

Author
Time

Thanks Sherlock for the term I was thinking, thanks!

Also, JarJar, it’s been too long, he never says anything on the lines of “lesson 3” from the deleted scene?

Hmmm, Well, he says the word “lesson” from the previous films … depends if one could take the word “three” “Third” or “final” could be used.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

Yep, like I said, we would have to do some audio splicing in order to get him to say “Lesson Three”. So this idea may not work out right in the end.

I don’t like the caretaker village sequence because it’s the most egregious use of bathos employed by Rian in the entirety of TLJ. But hey, this isn’t the thread to discuss that so I’ll drop it having said that.