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The Clone Wars (2008 animated tv series) - a general discussion thread — Page 14

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skyjedi2005 said:

Hey those old tv ewoks movies may have been cheaply done but at least the creatures were done with puppets and stop motion and not frickin ugly ass cgi.

Can you imagine if Lucas revisisted the ewok tv movies and added cgi that ruined them or put Jar Jar in there.

I wouldn't put it past him.  Jar Jar would go on and on to Mace Towoni about he used to know a Mace Windu.  That would be the perfect solution to tie the Ewok adventures to the rest of the saga.  *wrings hands together*  "Excellent!"

 

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Is that a brand new bad guy in the promos for the season finale? He looks creepy!

Also of note is the use of a non-SW movie soundtrack in the ad. I know where it's from, but want to see if anyone else recognizes it. :)

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Where were you in '77?

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I’m watching this series for the first time with my girlfriend (on her suggestion) but watching only these suggested episodes for brevity. We’re almost through season 3 and I wanted to give a couple of thoughts.

We are pleasantly surprised at the quality of the episodes overall. Granted neither of us had high expectations, but we’re enjoying the humor of the droids and the fast pace of the episodes. Even a lesser episode is better for not wasting too much time.

The animation is good and keeps getting better, and I definitely like it more than Rebels. In fact there’s a slightly more mature tone in Clone Wars than in Rebels, which is welcome.

As for the bad, well, it’s still a kid’s show and suffers all the pitfalls of a Saturday morning cartoon. The plots can be repetitive, the action can become tedious, and the morals are often blunt and simplistic. Where the show tries to become more nuanced (so far, we’re only through the Mortis Arc), it merely becomes muddled and confusing.

The heroes an villains of the show suffer from aggressive plot armor syndrome, and lightsaber battles are becoming mere light shows. Consider, for contrast, the lightsaber encounters of the original trilogy: most of the scenes involving a lightsaber end with dismemberment or death. Granted there’s only so much you can do with a kid’s show, but every time a lightsaber is sheathed unbloodied, its power and danger is diminished, and this ethos of indestructible characters has carried over to the Mandalorian.

The overall impression I get going into Season 4 of this show is that the Clone Wars are a game - in every sense of the word. Although surrounded by death and battling for the soul of the Republic, none of our main characters seem to truly care about the damage inflicted or are truly affected by it. Each episode opens with a glib moral presumably relating to the content of the episode, followed by the announcer setting the stage. It would make sense as a sort of in-universe Republic propaganda, but it’s not nearly clear enough on this point if so. Whereas another show aimed at kids might show smaller moments between battles to illustrate moral points while keeping the battles themselves as backdrop, Clone Wars often weaves the morality tales directly into the battles, regardless of its effect on the seriousness of the situation. Even episodes without the focus on the Jedi have this issue.

ARC Troopers is a good example of this problem. Here’s the moral:

“Fighting a war tests a soldier’s skills, defending his home tests a soldier’s heart.”

That might as well be the moral of the show. The Clone Wars are often merely an exercise in the ability to deal cold destruction. There’s some kind of sense to this, given that the enemies are machines, but many battles suffer clone and civilian casualties, which often go unmarked. In subsequent shows this moral still seems to be in effect, with Stormtroopers and Rebels being the cannon fodder. Troops rarely flee battle, and only retreat under huge losses. Mourning consists of a brief downturned mouth and eyes.

But okay, it’s a kid’s show. It’s not supposed to show realistic mayhem and horror, right? Indeed, but this show ends up sanitizing and idealizing the process of war to the point that it feels truly alien. There’s no shame in avoiding the grim realities of war in a kid’s show to focus on small moments and the mobilization that happens behind the front lines. That is the Clone Wars kid’s show that I keep wanting to see, and episodes like Heroes on Both Sides feel like a breath of fresh air amid the endless spinning lightsabers and blaster fire.

Here’s to hoping the later seasons move in this direction.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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You’ve taken your first step into a larger world.

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Well it’s nice to hear you’ve already past the point where TCW took a decisive leap on quality, so prepare yourself for a treat. Seasons 3 onward feature some of the most nuanced, dark and overall well-written arcs.

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Knight of Kalee said:

Well it’s nice to hear you’ve already past the point where TCW took a decisive leap on quality, so prepare yourself for a treat. Seasons 3 onward feature some of the most nuanced, dark and overall well-written arcs.

We just watched the Darkness on Umbara arc, and it was pretty impressive, especially the first three episodes and most of the fourth. Not a huge fan of the one-note villiany at the end, but other than that it was rather astonishing considering the target demographic.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Knight of Kalee said:

Well it’s nice to hear you’ve already past the point where TCW took a decisive leap on quality, so prepare yourself for a treat. Seasons 3 onward feature some of the most nuanced, dark and overall well-written arcs.

We just watched the Darkness on Umbara arc, and it was pretty impressive, especially the first three episodes and most of the fourth. Not a huge fan of the one-note villiany at the end, but other than that it was rather astonishing considering the target demographic.

I concur with you that Krell’s turn could have been developed better, yet I still can’t forget how cold I felt after seeing the clones attack each other.

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I got to say, the Voice Acting is so solid and the animation do get improved.

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Knight of Kalee said:

NeverarGreat said:

Knight of Kalee said:

Well it’s nice to hear you’ve already past the point where TCW took a decisive leap on quality, so prepare yourself for a treat. Seasons 3 onward feature some of the most nuanced, dark and overall well-written arcs.

We just watched the Darkness on Umbara arc, and it was pretty impressive, especially the first three episodes and most of the fourth. Not a huge fan of the one-note villiany at the end, but other than that it was rather astonishing considering the target demographic.

I concur with you that Krell’s turn could have been developed better, yet I still can’t forget how cold I felt after seeing the clones attack each other.

True, I really wasn’t expecting them to go that far.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I’m genuinely envious. I’d love to be watching these moments for the first time all over again. I will live vicariously through your posts.

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I recently watched the series all the way through based on all the positive feedback, with comments such as “this is how the PT should have been handled”.

Personally I don’t think TCW is all that great, only worth watching when passing the time. The only storyline I genuinely enjoyed was the Mandalore storyline where Pre Viszla overthrows Satine, the rest was just OK.

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Hi all,

I have put together a watching order up for myself after the first season of The Mandalorian and playing Fallen Order, primarilty to get myself up to speed on lore things related to Mandalore and Dathomir. I consulted every available guide and episode rating list online. This is what I have compiled.

I threw out about 38% of the episodes and arranged the rest into 3 or 4 episode long “chapters”. I have to admit I haven’t been able to watch beyond “Chapter 12” so I don’t know if the rest works at all. Any advice is welcome in that matter.

CHAPTER 1 - CLONE TROOPERS
S03E01 - Clone Cadets
S01E05 - Rookies
S03E02 - ARC Troopers

CHAPTER 2 - MASTERS AND STUDENTS
S02E16 - Cat and Mouse
S01E16 - The Hidden Enemy
The Clone Wars (Christophsis parts only)

CHAPTER 3 - RISING MALEVOLENCE
S01E02 - Rising Malevolence
S01E03 - Shadow of Malevolence
S01E04 - Destroy Malevolence

CHAPTER 4 - WAYS OF THE JEDI
S01E15 - Trespass
S01E09 - Cloak of Darkness
S01E10 - Lair of Grievous

CHAPTER 5 - THE COST OF WAR
S01E19 - Storm Over Ryloth
S01E20 - Innocents of Ryloth
S01E21 - Liberty on Ryloth

CHAPTER 6 - CHILDREN OF THE FORCE
S02E01 - Holocron Heist
S02E02 - Cargo of Doom
S02E03 - Children of the Force

CHAPTER 7 - LEGACY OF TERROR
S02E05 - Landing at Point Rain
S02E06 - Weapons Factory
S02E07 - Legacy of Terror
S02E08 - Brain Invaders

CHAPTER 8 - GRIEVOUS INTRIGUE
S02E11 - Lightsaber Lost
S02E09 - Grievous Intrigue
S02E10 - The Deserter

CHAPTER 9 - DUCHESS OF MANDALORE
S02E12 - The Mandalore Plot
S02E13 - Voyage of Temptation
S02E14 - Duchess of Mandalore

CHAPTER 10 - BOUNTY HUNTERS
S02E17 - Bounty Hunters
S02E20 - Death Trap
S02E21 - R2 Come Home
S02E22 - Lethal Takedown

CHAPTER 11 - WITCHES OF THE MIST
S03E12 - Nightsisters
S03E13 - Monster
S03E14 - Witches of the Mist

CHAPTER 12 - ESCAPE FROM THE CITADEL
S03E18 - The Citadel
S03E19 - Counterattack
S03E20 - Citadel Rescue

CHAPTER 13 - DARKNESS ON UMBARA
S04E07 - Darkness on Umbara
S04E08 - The General
S04E09 - Plan of Dissent
S04E10 - Carnage of Krell

CHAPTER 14 - SLAVES OF THE REPUBLIC
S04E11 - Kidnapped
S04E12 - Slaves of the Republic
S04E13 - Escape From Kadavo

CHAPTER 15 - DECEPTION
S04E15 - Deception
S04E16 - Friends and Enemies
S04E17 - The Box
S04E18 - Crisis on Naboo

CHAPTER 16 - A TEST OF STRENGTH
S05E06 - The Gathering
S05E07 - A Test of Strength
S05E08 - Bound for Rescue
S05E09 - A Necessary Bond

CHAPTER 17 - CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT
S04E19 - Massacre
S04E20 - Bounty
S04E21 - Brothers
S04E22 - Revenge

CHAPTER 18 - A WAR ON TWO FRONTS
S05E02 - A War on Two Fronts
S05E03 - Front Runners
S05E04 - The Soft War
S05E05 - Tipping Points

CHAPTER 19 - DARK EMPIRE
S05E01 - Revival
S05E14 - Eminence
S05E15 - Shades of Reason
S05E16 - The Lawless

CHAPTER 20 - ORDERS
S06E01 - The Unknown
S06E02 - Conspiracy
S06E03 - Fugitive
S06E04 - Orders

CHAPTER 21 - THE LOST ONE
S06E10 - The Lost One
S06E11 - Voices
S06E12 - Destiny
S06E13 - Sacrifice

CHAPTER 22 - THE WRONG JEDI
S05E17 - Sabotage
S05E18 - The Jedi Who Knew Too Much
S05E19 - To Catch a Jedi
S05E20 - The Wrong Jedi

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We’re officially through Season 5.

The Youngling arc was fun, though it always felt to me that the building of a lightsaber was the final test of a Jedi’s skill. I suppose for a militant Jedi Order the lightsaber would be even more fetishized, however, so that makes some sense. Hondo also feels like his character is whatever it needs to be for the plot. Still fun, but sloppy writing to have him attack a Jedi ship then have a sudden change of heart. The ancient droid is a nice addition, I hope he appears in the High Republic materials somewhere.

Maul is boring. Mandalore is boring. Sorry for everyone who likes them, but I just don’t care about these noble warrior stereotypes. I am really struggling to find something nice to say about these episodes. I liked how the Black Sun was taken care of. But everything else fell flat. Savage was never a character, the plan for the planetary takeover was childishly easy, and Maul decides not to kill Kenobi for…reasons? Palpatine decides not to kill Maul for…reasons?

The temple bombing arc was great. This is the first time Ventress has felt like a real character. I liked the decision to put almost no humans in the undercity, implying a racist stratification which is quite dark for a kid’s show, as well as the implication that the Jedi don’t even realize how little their employees are paid. I had always assumed that Ahsoka had left the Jedi of her own volition instead of being expelled, and that kind of happens, but I think it still would have been stronger had she decided to leave without the Jedi’s inquisition. Overall, still a great end to the season.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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If there’s one important character TCW touched upon which I love the way they handled, it would be Tarkin when he was merely a military strategist for the Republic. He only shows up in one episode but it’s very memorable and he makes quite the impression on Anakin, who finds himself quietly agreeing with Tarkin’s views on how the strong should rule over the weak and his more ruthless approach to warfare.

This is how Anakin’s path down the dark side should have started, as the Clone Wars waged on he grew to despise weakness, which IMO would have made for a far more compelling story than some stupid desire to save Padmé from dying in childbirth.

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I love every scene Obi-Wan and Satine had together.

“I presume you are acquainted with the collection of half-truths and hyperbole known as Obi-Wan Kenobi?” - Satine

“Had you said the word, I would have left the Jedi Order.” - Obi-Wan

“Remember, my dear Obi-Wan. I loved you, always. I always will.” -Satine

Maul didn’t kill Obi-Wan because he wanted him to suffer.

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Satine was perhaps the character I hated the most throughout the entire series. It was so satisfying to see her overthrown by Pre Vizsla.

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fmalover said:

Satine was perhaps the character I hated the most throughout the entire series. It was so satisfying to see her overthrown by Pre Vizsla.

Hate leads to suffering.

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Rodney-2187 said:

fmalover said:

Satine was perhaps the character I hated the most throughout the entire series. It was so satisfying to see her overthrown by Pre Vizsla.

Hate leads to suffering.

My hate subsided once she was deposed.

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I don’t think you’re supposed to root for the Maul-collaborating terrorists. I’d even argue Bo-Katan gets too much of a free pass, given her actions when she was part of Death Watch.

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Dr. Krogshöj said:

Hi all,

I have put together a watching order up for myself after the first season of The Mandalorian and playing Fallen Order, primarilty to get myself up to speed on lore things related to Mandalore and Dathomir. I consulted every available guide and episode rating list online. This is what I have compiled.

I threw out about 38% of the episodes and arranged the rest into 3 or 4 episode long “chapters”. I have to admit I haven’t been able to watch beyond “Chapter 12” so I don’t know if the rest works at all. Any advice is welcome in that matter.

I don’t know if you’ve reached that point yet, but “The Lost One” really should come after “The Wrong Jedi”. Also you could sneak in the missing episodes “Heroes on Both Sides” and “A Friend it Need” somewhere before “Dark Empire”.

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sade1212 said:

I don’t think you’re supposed to root for the Maul-collaborating terrorists. I’d even argue Bo-Katan gets too much of a free pass, given her actions when she was part of Death Watch.

The problem is that the good guys are overly idealistic holier-than-thou idiots. It’s hard for me to root for such naivety. So the way I see it, Satine got what was coming to her.

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Was Satine not portrayed somewhat negatively, as naive and in over her head? Obi-Wan is The Good Guy and he never actually resolves his debate with Satine other than the “we’ll agree to disagree” thing. And then she dies in spite of all her efforts and Star Wars at this point has been pretty pro-warrior Mando, even adapting her terrorist sister as A Good Guy in live action.

Mandalore’s neutrality and pacifism causes a lot of problems for our heroes, that I’d say it wasn’t trying to make Satine’s goal The Good Side. Basically: Nice thoughts, but it doesn’t work. Which is a whole political can of worms, but lines up pretty neatly with the kids show themes of Fighting For What’s Right.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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Rodney-2187 said:

fmalover said:

Satine was perhaps the character I hated the most throughout the entire series. It was so satisfying to see her overthrown by Pre Vizsla.

Hate leads to suffering.

I sense much fear in you.