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The Clone Wars: Refocused [COMPLETE] + Subtitles for season one! — Page 17

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I agree too. And don’t worry- especially early on, we don’t get more than one episode without Ahsoka.

Now on to Cloak/Lair, which as you say is weaker.

With this pairing, the intro would focus on how Anakin’s essentially dumped Ahsoka on Luminara for a bit, whilst she’s escorting Gunray.

The Cloak of Darkness is an OK episode. The Ahsoka stuff is good - Luminara/Ahsoka makes a good pairing because we see that Ahsoka’s boldness is not necessarily a weakness - and the rest is fine, though I’ll trim some of Gunray and the goofy stick droid thing, plus the scene of Ventress planting bombs (mainly because it just looks very dull). Unfortunately the episode is cut in quite a boring way, so it doesn’t have much dynamism to it.

But Lair of Grievous… It’s just not that good. I think the only way it can stay is if you absolutely whip through it. The good bits are the hints that Grievous is monstrous, and the final beat where Yoda acknowledges that there’s a risk that the war may turn the Jedi from peacekeepers into warriors. Grievous is a real weakness though - yes he gets a bit of layering here, but he gets an easy beat and the tension between him and Dooku only really serves to show that even Dooku thinks he’s a crap villain. For there to be any tension in the episode it has to be Grievous’ plan, I think, and he’s laying in wait.

So you’d essentially have Fisto arrive on the planet, straight up to the chair (unopposed) and reveal the Gunray hologram, have the folk explore his lair, then skip right to him coming out of his main room (implicitly doing this deliberately to draw Kit Fisto away), then killing Nadar. Instead of fighting Grievous, I’d then just have Fisto flee, and report back to the order.

There is a nice scene in Shadow Warrior which I thought about including here, where Dooku and Sidious talk about Grievous. But the only workable Sidious dialogue is “This turn of events is unfortunate. General Grievous is a critical part of my plan for the Clone Wars. You must lure [Skywalker] into a trap”. And it’s set on Naboo, with some lovely establishing shots, but I think that raises way too many questions.

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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Well, that was a wasted 24h. The rendering of a new 8-bit source using NumeralJoker’s 10-bit source was still unpalatable to my PC for whatever reason. Even playing it through VLC and other media players had problems. So I’ll stick with the original sources for now. Anyway, since that means I can reboot my editing software now, that means I’m back on to editing. I should have a workprint for the Christophsis episode out within a couple of days.

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Checking back on the project. I read through all the new developments. I gotta say you really are tackling this show with passion AND smarts. Here are my thoughts on some things:

The intro:
I like the text and how it flows with the logo. Regarding the music, I think you could explore something more neutral. Not every arc will be tragic or military and bombastic, or include Ahsoka. So making the intro sad, or epic, or include Ahsoka’s theme could make it not fit with the actual story of the episode. For this reason, your versions didn’t quite work for me, though they were pretty good. McFibb’s suggestion I think almost nails the tone, but I feel it’s too epic like others have pointed out. The part that plays on top of the intro text is great but then it rises too much. And maybe it’s too early for the order 66 theme.
I don’t want to only criticize so I’ll propose something. The beginning of “The Clones” from Kevin Kiner’s score I’ve always felt feels very iconic to the show. It has a military feel to it but isn’t overly epic. It could work well as a base for its simplicity. It could be like Mando’s “Ta duum”. With some mixing, one could make it more or less epic, melancholic, or whatever. I don’t have those skills though, sadly.

The outro:
I love it. Just one very little nick pick that may not even be important. The word “fan edit” could throw off the experience of newcomers getting into the show. We want them completely invested in the stories not asking “What’s edited?”. I’m not saying not to credit yourself, of course, but maybe later. And I’ve always liked seeing George Lucas’s name first right at the end of every episode. However, this is YOUR fan edit so that is up to you of course.

The episodes:
The New Padawan as the title fits really well and I don’t have anything else to add, your plan sounds good. I’ll want to check it out whenever you drop it. About The Death Watch, I like it for the same reasons as you. But they’re not the focus. The Mandalore Plot could be a good alternative. I don’t have any feedback on Cloak/Lair, I don’t remember them well.

That’s all the feedback I have now. Thank you Eddie.

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Hey all — sorry for being MIA the last 24 hours. I’m working on a new rendition of the intro music. Agree about the “bigness” being a problem. I think a more restrained, but equally tense theme that adds an element of unrelenting forward momentum can really do the trick. Gonna put in some more hours tomorrow, and hopefully I’ll have something to show for it!

This community is awesome.

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Cheers ADR14NAT1ON! Never worry about being ‘only’ critical - it’s all valuable stuff! I really appreciate the feedback - and McFibb picking up some further exploration of the music - because the more brains we can pass this all through the better.

On your point about the intro theme not always matching the episode, I think that’s something that’ll quickly be mitigated by people getting used to it - whatever we settle on. I remember when I first heard the Clone Wars theme, the kind of broken version of the usual Star Wars theme, and finding it really jarring. I think that whatever we settle on, people will quickly get used to it, and it’s right that it encapsulate the spirit of the show if not the episode. And I think all we’re really doing is trying to hone in on the musical identity of the end of the Clone Wars (a lovely emotional epic) as opposed to the start (a bombastic anthology).

I actually think you’re right about my own credit. In most of the edits I’ve seen the faneditor puts themself early, which is fine since you’re usually watching a single movie which you sought out because it’s been edited. But in this case since we’re taking a few seconds to look at it over a piece of art, I think there’s a risk that people overthink my influence - and once per episode that could add up. So I think I’ll put myself last of the ‘featured’ credits, or perhaps after the original editor, if that’s in there. I think since this has been so collaborative that I must also include a regular (non-background-image) slide featuring as many of the participants in this thread as possible.

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I think I favour THE DEATH WATCH name over something that focuses on the actual core - Obi-Wan and Satine - because they do at least thrust the plot forward, and our theoretical fan who’s coming from the Mandalorian (who I think it’s valid to handhold a bit since there has been a massive spike in Clone Wars interest because of that show) would take interest in a name so Mandalorian.

And Knight of Kalee, I agree the mini spiders aren’t bad at all, they just eat up a lot of time to get us to the same point. They’re not additive, I think it’ll just help with the pacing.

As an aside, I’m calling it now - when I air the first Mandalore episode, people who know I’ve cut out the mini spiders might say “That cut doesn’t quite work - Merrik grabs the Duchess and gets out of the room, passing Obi-Wan (who could have easily grabbed him), then we cut to Obi-Wan in the corridor having completely lost them even though he was right next to them”. To which I’ll reply “That’s actually how it is in the original episode. SHRUG.”

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As a totally unrelated aside, I absolutely loved the Mandalorian this season, but I was a little disappointed that it didn’t maintain the zippy sound effects of the Darksaber or the way that it leaves its image slightly behind itself as it swings through the air. Which breaks physics, but was so cool. I thought it was a nice part of its identity in TCW.

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To which I’ll reply “That’s actually how it is in the original episode. SHRUG.”

I am looking forward to posting lists of nitpicks of your edits only to rediscover that most of them are inherent to the original episodes. I suppose I could just check the original episodes myself before posting…

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sade1212 said:

To which I’ll reply “That’s actually how it is in the original episode. SHRUG.”

I am looking forward to posting lists of nitpicks of your edits only to rediscover that most of them are inherent to the original episodes. I suppose I could just check the original episodes myself before posting…

Nahhh, it’s best to go in with as little memory as possible, so that you can best test this in isolation. I can always highlight if necessary! 😉

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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Very interesting! Looking forward to this project and will help anyway I can. Keep it up!

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I’ve made a mistake with my Christophsis episode and had it set for NumeralJoker’s source, even though I’d switched over to the originals. Changing the settings threw a lot out of whack so I’m having to reproduce the work. But nevermind! I’d worked out all of the cuts, so it shouldn’t take me too long. I’m very pleased with how it turned out, either way.

Unfortunately the two Christophsis episodes are still a slightly different FPS to the Christophsis parts of the movie, being 23.976fps and 24.001fps respectively, so there is a risk of slight visual issues in either half. Should be minor though.

For those in the know, what’s best to set my project at? The 23.976 or the 24.001? My guess is that compression is less messy that extrapolation, so going smaller seems wisest.

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Yeah, I just tested both, and lower seems better. But in exploring that for future episodes, I was able to fix it for my existing episode, just by disabling resampling (and matching transitions to frames), which means I don’t have to duplicate everything. Woop!

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EddieDean said:

Dr. Krogshöj said:

EddieDean said:

There’s nothing released yet buddy, but stay tuned. I’ve put the current status right at the top of the OP so it’s easy to check, and will update the title as new episodes are released.

Oops, my bad! I will definitely stay tuned.

BTW, I have just posted my own episode grouping/order in another thread that you might find of note.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Clone-Wars-2008-animated-tv-series-general-discussion-thread/id/9823/page/14#1397754

Nice, thanks for the share. I always like to see others’ versions of these, because it helps me to see where the community’s focus is.

Take it with a pinch of salt, I posted this before I actually read through the thread and without watching through the series, just based on guides.

Reading through the thread enhanced my anticipation for the project even more I have to say! I’m with Hal9000, I tried to get into TCW several times, but just couldn’t. (Watching the Mortis arc certainly didn’t help…)

An idea, how about calling the episodes “Chapters” and having a one-word title, like the Mandalorian? I.e.:
Chapter 1 - The Apprentice
Chapter 2 - The Holocron
Chapter 3 - The Pirate
Chapter 4 - Geonosis
Chapter 5 - The Deserter
Chapter 6 - The Duchess
Chapter 7 - The Trap
Chapter 8 - The Academy
Chapter 9 - Assassin
Chapter 10 - The Sisters
Chapter 11 - The Envoy
And so on.

Of course, the different cuts would throw the numbering (my example follows the Continuity cut). Nevertheless, this would tie in with the purpose of the project nicely in my opinion. And I just love The Mandalorian title cards!

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Hmm, that framerate issue is odd. I thought TCW was always at 23.976. I’d encourage you to tell your editing software to interpret all the footage as 23.976, if possible. Be sure to vet the final render for duplicated/skipped frames.

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Yeah, Dr. Krogshöj, I did think about numbering/chaptering them, but as you say, I’m producing multiple cuts. I’d like people to be able to mix and match. And I’ve played around with the idea of naming by convention, but I think I’d rather stick closer to TCW and allow each episode to have a bit more flexibility. I might revisit this after I’ve produced all of the edits, for v2 (the wider release beyond these forums).

Sade, you’re right, but it looks like the movie’s slightly out. Either that or that 23.976 is really a slightly variable framerate and it’s just getting picked up at 24.001. I’ll always run at 23.976 though as it solves the issue if it comes up. And I always check as much as possible with test short renders, then full, for frame issues. I’m quite a meticulous frame editor so I generally catch them early.

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Anyway, time for all these weeks of planning and chat to be rewarded. Time for-

FIRST ACTUAL CLIP

OPENING CRAWL:

  • It is the early days of the Clone Wars.
  • New battlefields emerge every day, as the armies of the Separatists and the Republic clash across the galaxy.
  • Senator BAIL ORGANA has taken a direct role in providing relief and supplies to the clone squadrons on the front lines.
  • Anakin Skywalker has achieved the rank of JEDI KNIGHT, so his master Obi-Wan Kenobi has put in a request for a new padawan.
  • Meanwhile, the pair have tracked Count Dooku’s vicious Sith assassin, ASAJJ VENTRESS, to the key planet of Christophsis.
  • But Ventress is far more cunning than she appears…

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sA29YutBnVZ3ixdgJ-qUHhmy88i7fEAC/view?usp=sharing

Cast your peepers over that. That’s now the introduction to our Christophsis episode, essentially using scenes from Cat and Mouse and Hidden Enemy to make it so that the assault is a bit more of a trap, and to give us the bonus tension of Bail’s supply and relief efforts throughout the whole episode.

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Can I suggest some alternate text for the beginning? Writing alternate crawls is an odd Star Wars hobby of mine!

NEW OPENING CRAWL:

War is spreading across the galaxy.

New battlefields are rapidly emerging as the armies of the Republic and Separatists fight for control.

Taking a direct role in this conflict, Senator BAIL ORGANA has began providing relief and supplies to numerous clone squadrons on the front lines.

Anakin Skywalker has achieved the rank of JEDI KNIGHT. In honor of this achievement, his master Obi-Wan Kenobi has put in a request for Anakin to teach his skills to a new padawan.

Meanwhile, the pair have tracked Count Dooku’s vicious Sith assassin, ASAJJ VENTRESS, to the planet of Christophsis.
But Ventress is far more cunning than she appears…

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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That’s good, but it needs to fit to some standard structure, which I currently have as six lines of text, of which the first and last are shorter.

Since I have to do about fifty episodes, I figured the very first line might position the viewer chronologically, and then the second would give the state of the galaxy.

Your fourth line wouldn’t quite work, since at the start of the episode we believe it’s Obi-Wan who’s requested a padawan - Ahsoka is ostensibly his, not Skywalkers, and ‘officially’ it’s only Yoda that changed that plan (though it’s implied later that Obi-Wan was in on it).

Your second, third, and fifth lines are all good though!

The Clone Wars: Refocused | Andor: Movie Omnibus

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Take 2! 😃

War is beginning to spread across the galaxy.

New battlefields are rapidly emerging as the armies of the Republic and Separatists fight for control.

Taking a direct role in this conflict, Senator BAIL ORGANA has began providing relief and supplies to numerous clone squadrons on the front lines.

Anakin Skywalker has achieved the rank of JEDI KNIGHT. In honor of this achievement, Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi has put in a request to teach his skills to a new padawan learner.

Meanwhile, the pair have tracked Count Dooku’s vicious assassin, ASAJJ VENTRESS, to the planet of Christophsis.

But Ventress is far more cunning than she appears…

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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Awesome @EddieDean!

Constructive feedback time (reminder: I never was able to get past these first episodes):

  • Already, I like the tightening. When SW is at it’s best, it is TIGHT with very little fluff. The plot moves, the action moves, the character development moves – everything serves a larger purpose, from cinematography to dialogue to action. I think any edit must ask the question: “Is this [set piece/dialogue/shot/etc] absolutely critical in delivering a must-watch SW experience?”

  • That said, the clip provided can be trimmed further, I think. Or at least reshuffled (of course, saying all this without seeing the whole episode). For example, the transition between Ventress leaving OWK and AS post-fight using the circular swipe led me to believe we were leaving the two Jedi for some amount of time, filled by what surely was to be action/plot/dialogue/etc with another set of characters. Instead, we are instantly back with OWK and AS at what seems to be possibly hours later, ready and prepped to tackle the Separatist Army. To my untrained eye, this doesn’t actually feel like a super critical scene, and from what I gather, seems to be the beginning of a separate episode’s expository introduction. I think less could be more by perhaps using that circular swipe to go right to the next scene, with establishing space shot followed by Yoda and MW addressing the admiral on the ship. The surrounding dialogue explaining a lack of contact with OWK and AS still makes sense, and keeps the pacing a bit more tight and tense: OWK and AS are off to see what Ventress is talking about exactly, and as the watcher, we don’t know how dire the situation is. It keeps everyone on their toes.

Anyway, that’s just one example of how tightening might be used to stronger effect for the benefit of the whole.

  • Personal gripe time: I absolutely hate PT droids. Their talking just fully takes me out of the story. Their antics aren’t funny, don’t add anything to the plot, and for the most part, really diminish any sort of menace or threat. Have you given any thought to removing all their dialogue in favor of what other fan edits have proposed – that they are all on the same network anyway and don’t require vocalization to communicate?

That’s it for now. THANKS FOR THIS!

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EddieDean said:

That’s good, but it needs to fit to some standard structure, which I currently have as six lines of text, of which the first and last are shorter.

Since I have to do about fifty episodes, I figured the very first line might position the viewer chronologically, and then the second would give the state of the galaxy.

Your fourth line wouldn’t quite work, since at the start of the episode we believe it’s Obi-Wan who’s requested a padawan - Ahsoka is ostensibly his, not Skywalkers, and ‘officially’ it’s only Yoda that changed that plan (though it’s implied later that Obi-Wan was in on it).

Your second, third, and fifth lines are all good though!

I actually don’t think they do have to fit a certain structure. There’s a natural assumption that each episode holds something new or different than previous episodes, and I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for the viewer to expect that different episodes will have different needs re: to expository information right up front. Plus, it can allow you some creative freedom when your hands are already tied in so many ways given the source material. I think this idea goes back to my previous post about pacing/tightening. Everything should serve the larger purpose rather than a fixed structure for the sake of structure. If a longer set of title cards make sense, then I’m all for it. But there are few things more aggravating to a viewing experience than sitting through something that doesn’t need to be there – indeed, something that is only there to fill a structural void. I won’t miss what I don’t miss!

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I detect frame issues: for example, one duplicated at 106, one skipped between frame 116 and 117, duplicate again at 129, another dupe at 223 etc. MPV and MPC demonstrate this behaviour, so I think it’s inherent to the file. I’ve checked my local rips of TCW theatrical and the Hidden Enemy and they’re constant FPS 23.976 and don’t have any dupes. I’d double check your rips and how you’ve converted them.

I agree with DZ that the intro text could be spiced up a tad, but there’s a fine balance with not making it too wordy, and it definitely should continue to avoid spoiling that Ahsoka is assigned to Anakin (edit: whoops, about six new messages appeared while I was typing this one, and I see this was already iterated on). Perhaps you could work in a little reference to “Like fire, across the galaxy, the Clone Wars spread. In league with the wicked Count Dooku, more and more planets slip. Against this threat, upon the Jedi Knights falls the duty, to lead the army of the Republic. And, as the heat of war grows, so too grows the prowess of one most gifted student of the Force.”, though obviously that’d be super redundant if you then later turn CW2003 into an episode of this.

The actual editing is really solid, though, and an inventive way to put the Hidden Enemy together as just a prologue to the movie. I feel this works well as an introduction, as we’re rapidly reintroduced to Anakin and Obi-Wan, who aren’t too far from their AOTC characterisations, and then we meet Asajj quickly to get us used to the new characters.

Nitpicks:

  • There’s an odd cut at 2:10 between the table breaking and the fight continuing up the stairs. Perhaps the little bit of saber fighting after the table break could be excised entirely.
  • Similarly, the cut at ~2:16 feels like the music trails out a little abruptly - with such a vigorous swooping motion from the incoming bombers, perhaps this could be a wipe?
  • The wipe at 4:00 isn’t feathered at the top. The jump from night to day and the repurposing of this footage and the Bail audio works well, though.
  • The cutaway to tanks at 4:22 is too quick and unnecessary. Before it, the black levels look like this (correct), and after it, the black levels look like this (crushed) - is your 0-255 or 16-235 set correctly?
  • The cutaway after “the show is about to begin” works well.

McFibb, the droid stuff is pretty heavily baked into TCW, so you’ll probably just wind up inevitably having to stomach some of it. Same with Yoda using a lightsaber and many other traditional PT complaints.

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McFibb, we’re on the same page. I agree about tightening being an option. Right now, since a lot of voices here have swung me toward inclusion rather than exclusion, I’ve produced, let’s call it, the ‘loosest possible tight edit’. As in, I’ve made the necessary cuts for the story to work and to remove the most objectionable bits, but left the episode otherwise intact. Mainly due to cognitive load! Once I have the story and key cuts working, I can then look to trimming and polishing - but I thought that might be best to do incorporating viewer feedback. So I’ll absolutely consider yours and other trims, once this round is complete.

I also hate the PT droids, and have cut their voices as much as possible. You might have spotted a couple of ‘roger rogers’ removed from that clip already, and there’re more in the full episode. You do need to put up with their voices when they’re carrying important dialogue, but I’m getting rid of as much trash as possible. I couldn’t cut their 'aaaaah!'s as they fall from the speeder bikes due to the surrounding sound, though I think that ‘joke’ is OK.

I’m also thinking that I much prefer to release content as a dialogue with you guys to feed back. That’ll give us our best final quality for each episode. I’m starting to think that a weekly schedule might encourage me to rush episodes or not account for all the to-and-fro, so I think what I’d prefer to do is to simply release each one in (my) chronological order, as and when they’re done, but accounting for feedback, so I don’t have too many spinning plates at one time. I’ll build less of an audience this way, which may be detrimental for feedback, but I think I should give the work on each episode as long as it needs, for a better result.

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Totally makes sense and agree on all points! 😃