logo Sign In

Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 133

Author
Time
 (Edited)

JakeRyan17 said:

I guess we see her speak a couple other languages there with other people at or around the outpost.

We do see Rey communicate with Teedo; it’s clear Rey knows who he is, as in her first scene with BB-8 she tells it “That’s just Teedo.” But there is no indication he’s from a different planet, so we can conclude from what we know that he is from Jakku.

JakeRyan17 said:

Her having skills learned offscreen isn’t being a Mary Sue

I understand that, but if it contradicts her background presented to us as well as established in-universe facts, then it would make her a Mary Sue. For example, my character is a regular human baby who lives in Hell and speaks normal English, after being abandoned by his English-speaking parents moments after it was born; in Hell the only language everyone ever speaks is perfect and normal English. But somehow he understands the Navajo language, literally on the verge of “extinction”; this would make my character a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

sade1212 said:

Shyriiwook must be a very straightforward language, since even 22-year old ex-scumrat and Imperial Academy expellee Han Solo seemed to be able to understand it.

If I recall correctly it’s established in Solo the Empire is enslaving Wookiees, so I don’t think it’d be hard to conclude Han learned what the language is specifically during his time at the Imperial Academy.

Author
Time

The difference is your character is not living in a trading outpost with implied off-worlders and already shown speaking multiple languages.

Even looking at the chain of stealing, Rey seems to know the person that stole the ship from Han, as she says his name with familiarity (similar to Teedo).

For this to go against the background presented, it would have to be things that aren’t part of the background presented. Her entire presented background is what’s being labelled as a Mary Sue (good pilot, speaks multiple languages, good with melee weapons, etc.). All of that is established when we first see her: piloting her speeder, speaking multiple languages at and around a trading outpost, fighting with her staff. That is her established background.

Again, it’s far more strange that Finn would be good with a blaster or on a firing squad when he’s a janitor. Even him flying the speeder in the Battle of Crait is suspect based on how quickly it takes place after the film that establishes he doesn’t know how to fly.

But with the woman, we have to tear apart every detail of every frame and waveform to complain that she’s a Mary Sue. It just doesn’t make sense to me, these films have bigger issues and this “issue” was addressed in the original films, as released.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I always got the impression that Rey’s background was carefully planned to fully equip her with a standard set of Star Wars skills so she could be a flexible protagonist right off the bat. Being a scavenger who’s spent years with criminals and lowlifes on a pretty rough planet makes her athletic, practiced with melee weapons, a skilled mechanic with a knowledge of old Imperial and Rebellion stuff that she’s salvaged, resourceful, able to fly a speeder (and other vehicles she may have had a chance to use on Jakku), etc. I felt this was intentional to avoid having her spend a whole movie being a confused farmboy or a child like our previous protagonists. Disney wanted TFA to make a bang all by itself, not just set up the next two movies, and they knew people expected lightsaber fights and force powers.

Author
Time

Lol I think people are making misconceptions of what a Mary Sue and Gary Sue are and trying to broaden it’s meaning by tying it with Power/Ability, knowledge/knowhow, etc.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

I feel like you guys are making up reasons to call Rey a Mary Sue. There’s really not much suggesting either way whether or not Wookiee language is easy or hard to learn, so I’d personally take Rey picking it up as evidence that it’s easy. Not as evidence that it’s hard and that she’s OP.

jarbear said:

Lol I think people are making misconceptions of what a Mary Sue and Gary Sue are and trying to broaden it’s meaning by tying it with Power/Ability, knowledge/knowhow, etc.

Yeah. Mary Sues and Gary Stus aren’t bad characters just because they’re super OP or whatever, but because they’re extreme self flattery (or flattery of another group, but it’s usually self flattery) with the subtlety of a jackhammer.

The original fanfic where the name Mary Sue comes from was a (parody of a) self-insert fanfic where the author’s self-insert was super talented and outperformed all the Star Trek characters because she was so cool and awesome, and they all instantly loved and respected her instantly for no other reason than because the author was (parodying) flattering herself.

The first people to accuse Rey of being a Mary Sue back in 2015 were more in line with this, but in a much less palatable way if you know what I mean.

I really don’t think Rey’s OP, though. Compared to Anakin and Luke, she’s pretty much on par for most things, albeit she starts a little bit further along with her abilities in the Force than Luke does. But for Luke, he doesn’t even believe it exists in ANH until the middle of the movie, doesn’t put any faith in it until the end of ANH, and doesn’t put complete faith in it until the very end of ESB. Versus Rey, who kinda starts off pretty close to where Luke was in ESB. She’s not a faster learner or naturally more OP than Luke, she just starts her movie further along than he started his. Beyond that, I’d absolutely say he’s a slower learner than him.

With Rey’s other abilities, TFA gives pretty solid reasons for them if you actually pay attention to the movie. She’s a good pilot because she has years of experience. She can fight using a lightsaber because she has years of experience with a similar weapon, and even then she’s not in a fair fight, it’s heavily stacked against Kylo.

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

Author
Time

That’s one of the things I like about Rey: while Luke was slow on the uptake to believe in the Force, Rey was instantly ready to learn, and the reason that she was was because of Luke’s legend.

Author
Time

SparkySywer said:

There’s really not much suggesting either way whether or not Wookiee language is easy or hard to learn, so I’d personally take Rey picking it up as evidence that it’s easy. Not as evidence that it’s hard and that she’s OP.

I never said it wasn’t easy to learn; I said that it was implied to be rare, in that Chewbacca is the only Wookiee shown outside of his homeworld and most people do not even know what a Wookiee is, let alone its language.

Regarding the thing in the later part of your comment about faith, that doesn’t explain how Rey knows how to resist Kylo’s mind probe or how she knows how uses the mind trick. This is what people mean when they criticize Rey’s usage of the Force without any training.

Also, a single-handed sword-like lightsaber with a weightless blade that can kill you if you were to use it incorrectly is not the same as a heavy-weight double-handed metal staff.

Author
Time

Ignoring most of the “she’s a Mary Sue because… reasons!”

But Lightsabers have always been shown to be heavy. It was a major plot element in the first six films that Vader was the only one strong enough to wield a lightsaber with one hand.

Is that still canon? Maybe not. But lightsabers have never been described or depicted as light.

But keep looking for reasons to call Rey a Mary Sue despite her similarities to Luke and Anakin.

As for the question of how she resisted the mind probe, it’s a common trope that Rey quotes… about doors being able to be walked through from either direction when opened.

Author
Time

For everyone arguing that Rey’s power in TFA wasn’t unusual…the creator of that movie made a sequel to it where he acknowledges that it is unusual and explains it by tying her by blood to the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. I don’t remember the name of that movie, it might come to me later.

Regardless, TFA is designed to raise questions about Rey’s parentage and her unusual affinity to the Force. Otherwise TLJ wouldn’t try to explain it by tying it to a Force equation involving Kylo and JJ wouldn’t have tried to make her the spawn of Space Satan.

This isn’t to forgive TFA’s choices - a movie should stand on its own merits. The real issue with Rey’s power in that film is that it requires extra context to appreciate, and not because it’s necessarily unusually strong based on the prior films, but because it feels unearned.

Take the scene of Luke levitating a saber in the Wampa cave. Someone watching this film after the first one could complain that this is a bogus and overpowered new ability, but the scene sells that this power is the only thing that will save Luke’s life and he struggles mightily to achieve it. The music and camerawork, the sense of peril, all were necessary to generate the need for this new power.

Rey in contrast is never in mortal peril in her moments of crisis. Rather, in each one she chooses to pit herself against a superior opponent and comes out on top, sometimes to her own astonishment. And this makes all the difference in terms of earning a power versus merely acquiring it.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time

NeverarGreat said:

For everyone arguing that Rey’s power in TFA wasn’t unusual…the creator of that movie made a sequel to it where he acknowledges that it is unusual and explains it by tying her by blood to the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. I don’t remember the name of that movie, it might come to me later.

Regardless, TFA is designed to raise questions about Rey’s parentage and her unusual affinity to the Force. Otherwise TLJ wouldn’t try to explain it by tying it to a Force equation involving Kylo and JJ wouldn’t have tried to make her the spawn of Space Satan.

This isn’t to forgive TFA’s choices - a movie should stand on its own merits. The real issue with Rey’s power in that film is that it requires extra context to appreciate, and not because it’s necessarily unusually strong based on the prior films, but because it feels unearned.

Take the scene of Luke levitating a saber in the Wampa cave. Someone watching this film after the first one could complain that this is a bogus and overpowered new ability, but the scene sells that this power is the only thing that will save Luke’s life and he struggles mightily to achieve it. The music and camerawork, the sense of peril, all were necessary to generate the need for this new power.

Rey in contrast is never in mortal peril in her moments of crisis. Rather, in each one she chooses to pit herself against a superior opponent and comes out on top, sometimes to her own astonishment. And this makes all the difference in terms of earning a power versus merely acquiring it.

Exactly. You shouldn’t have to go outside of a film and rely on a sequel, prequel or even ancillary material in order for it to make sense, each film has to stand on its own and be coherent on its own; you can argue the same for The Empire Strikes Back, except most of its set-ups, specifically Luke dealing with Darth Vader being his father, can be summed up as “What happens next?”, whereas plot holes and inconsistencies aren’t the same as “What happens next?” questions.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

NeverarGreat said:

the creator of that movie made a sequel to it where he acknowledges that it is unusual and explains it by tying her by blood to the most powerful Force user in the galaxy.

I really don’t think they thought that hard about it. I think they just kind of thought “Fuck it, bring Palpatine back” in the eleventh hour and then thought “Fuck it, make Rey a Palpatine, it’ll be a mind = blown moment or something.” I never took it to have any meta meaning like that, nor did I ever take it to be any sort of explanation of Rey being powerful. I didn’t realize anyone took it that way until hopping onto the cybertubes.

I mean, Kylo does say “You have his power”, but I always took it to be just your average sub-par Star Wars line.

JakeRyan17 said:

But lightsabers have never been described or depicted as light.

/s

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

Author
Time

I think if there’s a connection to Abrams writing TRoS in response to Rey’s powers, it would be like everything else in that film: bending over backwards to please Reddit trolls who didn’t like The Last Jedi. That’s not artistic intention, quite the opposite.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I don’t wanna moan to hard about TRoS tonight, but TRoS’s end product really isn’t at all reflective of the ideas they had going into production, let alone pre-production, let alone the production during TFA. Major plot points, like Palpatine even being in the movie, weren’t there until January 2019, and it’s likely that Rey Palpatine wasn’t even a thing until late summer 2019. Everything was shifting around that much that ideas that old (4+ years old, absolutely ancient) are unlikely to have made it to the finished product of TRoS.

If JJ had anything like Rey being OP and it being because of her bloodline, that’s a hell of a lucky idea to survive the culling that far.

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Having the main hero humiliate the main villain in part 1 of a 3 part story was the critical mistake. You can’t have a standard hero’s journey and have the villain straight up lose 1/3 of the way in. It doesn’t work with audiences to establish the antagonist as a credible threat to the hero. To empathize with the hero’s struggles, they have to actually STRUGGLE and grow and learn.

Now, if Star Wars were a more cerebral and genre-defying franchise, that’d be a different story, but it’s not. The people want your familiar hero’s journey, and when they don’t get it, they get confused and dislike the feelings they get.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

It’s a stretch to describe Rey vs Kylo in TFA as a humiliation. She barely defends herself, then unexpectedly goes at him in a rage, and after a struggle lands a single blow. Plus, not to reiterate tired points, but Kylo had also just been shot, was riding something of a post-patricide emotional rollercoaster, and wasn’t trying to kill her. It’s certainly not as humiliating as having your spaceship blown up by a ten year old by accident, or having twenty years worth of R&D on a massive space station rendered moot by a lucky shot from a redneck.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

sade1212 said:

It’s a stretch to describe Rey vs Kylo in TFA as a humiliation. She barely defends herself, then unexpectedly goes at him in a rage, and after a struggle lands a single blow. Plus, not to reiterate tired points, but Kylo had also just been shot, was riding something of a post-patricide emotional rollercoaster, and wasn’t trying to kill her. It’s certainly not as humiliating as having your spaceship blown up by a ten year old by accident, or having twenty years worth of R&D on a massive space station rendered moot by a lucky shot from a redneck.

Those details aren’t the relevant parts. This is about the feelings the audience gets. They saw the hero beat up the villain at the end of the story–she stands triumphant over him and he’s on the ground. This is the imagery that resonates in the movie medium, and why people didn’t connect with Rey as the hero: she already won.

That’s not a good starting point for Rey’s journey–if anything, that’s the starting point for Kylo.

Author
Time

I read some editorial somewhere that this reminds me of. It was pointing out the backlash against The Last of Us Part II, and how the protagonist was disliked for being so violent and an awful human being, unlike the male lead in the prior game who rescues her in a violent rampage and effectively commits genocide by preventing a cure from being made. The accepted male protagonist isn’t criticised, even though he’s far more violent than the female protagonist.

People have an issue with female characters acting “like men”. Many people in the audience had zero issues with Rey. I had plenty of issues with TFA, and Rey being a “Mary Sue” doesn’t even register as one of them. I think it’s more about a cultural gender roles issue than it actually is a problem with the character and what she’s doing. Her victory at the end of the film is far less contrived or exaggerated than the victories of our other two (male) protagonists in their respective first films, and the hero’s journey is often defined by an early victory before the big defeat.

It’s because Rey is a woman. Not calling anyone actively or intentionally sexist, but every argument that’s being raised can’t really hold water—- especially when compared to Anakin and Luke.

Author
Time

I’m with JakeRyan17 on most of this.

There’s a lot to catch up on but changing Rey using a mind trick on the stormtrooper to escape and eliminating most of the fight with Kylo, leaving it to just one force/lucky/rage blow and having the ground open up straight away taking away her standing over a “defeated” Kylo removes any “mary sue” feel she has, imo. Her linguistics and piloting skills was believable for me but trimming down her abilities in TFA gives her more of an arc leading into TLJ and TROS. In fact, I’ve made her even stronger in TROS because we’ve already seen her do so much by the time she’s on DSII.

On another note:

I’m trying to export my cut in Premiere Pro but even at 480p sd, it’s saying 27 hours to render. My computer has suffered some serious issues lately but can anyone give me a clue as to why this is happening? It used to take around 2 hours but this is a joke!

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

Promote your own Fanedits here: https://www.reddit.com/r/moviesremastered/

MR Discord Community (Only taking fanedit requests via Discord with proof of ownership/subscription) - https://discord.gg/EBdQVXhDUh

Author
Time

What codec are you using for 480p SD?

Are the app/os versions 64bit?

How much RAM?

How much VRAM from dedicated GPU?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I’ve tried several but H264 - Mobile Device 480p SD Wide, 884MB

How do I find bit rate?

24GB RAM

Is there VRAM on Mac?

I’m really new to exporting but all my old settings never took this long. It does keep saying "conforming file… at the bottom. It’s never done that before either.

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

Promote your own Fanedits here: https://www.reddit.com/r/moviesremastered/

MR Discord Community (Only taking fanedit requests via Discord with proof of ownership/subscription) - https://discord.gg/EBdQVXhDUh

Author
Time

If you’re on Mac, go to the Apple Logo in the menubar, and click “About This Mac…”

64bit apps and OSes are more complex and can utilise more RAM. I think Catalina was when macOS fully committed to 64bit architecture and left 32bit behind. So, if you’re running Premiere CC in that OS or newer, you should be fine.

The bitrate of the video shouldn’t matter based on the codec settings you listed.

In the About This Mac, you can also find info about your graphics card. Intel Iris graphics and other Intel graphics cards are integrated to the CPU and share their RAM. If you have an NVIDIA or AMD graphics card, it should have its own dedicated RAM.

Also, in Premiere Pro’s preferences, you can dictate how much RAM the application has access to. This is to keep the application from choking your system during an export, but the default may be lower than you want. I’d set it to 18GB or 20GB, that way there’s 4-6GB RAM for any other tasks you’re doing.

I’m using a late-2014 15” MacBook Pro (I’d have to look up more detailed specs), and I don’t seem to be having that extensive of export times unless I’m doing a lot of graphics-intensive work, like color correction or VFX.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I’ve got an AMD Radeon HD 6970M and 21GB set with 3GB for other tasks.

I’m running High Sierra on a mid-2011 model. Everything has been rendering fine until this one. I can’t work it out.

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

Promote your own Fanedits here: https://www.reddit.com/r/moviesremastered/

MR Discord Community (Only taking fanedit requests via Discord with proof of ownership/subscription) - https://discord.gg/EBdQVXhDUh

Author
Time

It might be the CPU then. That’s the only thing that seems not ready to overwork, or older in any case. Is this the last cheese grater v1 Mac Pro?

Author
Time

27in iMac 3.1 GHz Intel Core i5

I’ll be looking to upgrade to a Mac mini next year. Their new machines are pretty awesome and great at running 4k but I’m stuck with this for now until I can work again.

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

Promote your own Fanedits here: https://www.reddit.com/r/moviesremastered/

MR Discord Community (Only taking fanedit requests via Discord with proof of ownership/subscription) - https://discord.gg/EBdQVXhDUh