Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 104

I showed a friend ghost force ghosts today, and he recommended that I add a little more sparkle to the jedi close-ups. I’m going to do a test, let’s see what remains.

idir_hh said:

You know, you could be right. The grass is always greener on the other side but I’ll wait till I see his Jurassic Word 3 to pass my verdict on him as a film-maker.

That makes two sandwich trilogies. Shoulda just swapped directors. JJ Abrams’s Jurassic World 3.

omnimuffin said:

idir_hh said:

And while they’re at it they should bring back Trevorrow and Derek Connolly to write and direct.
They deserve a chance.

I really hope not. Treverrow’s script may have had some cool Resistance stuff and some very pretty concept art, but even ignoring how totally and completely it butchers the concept of balance in the force, it’s got serious issues.

While that’s true, let’s not pretend JJ or Rian cared about that concept either. In fact, no one actually cared about it other than Lucas, since Lucas’ idea of the balance is no Sith. Pretty much everyone who wrote things past ROTJ ignored this, EU or Disney, since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.

idir_hh said:

since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.

At the the announcement of the Lucasfilm buy-out I had my hopes up for a villian akin to the Yizhon Vohng, an outer galaxy threat. An enemy that threatened the force itself.

Seriously. When I saw TFA, I had figured Luke had been forced into exile to focus on a much larger threat. The tragedy would’ve been he KNEW the First Order was rising and killing his friends, but was forced to see the bigger picture.

idir_hh said:

Like, what if Snoke was an agent of said threat. Sowing the seeds for a wider invasion.

Seriously. It would’ve “subverted expectations” just as much to make the analogue-Emperor a puppet of a greater force. Instead of the total joke we got, he would’ve emphasized the theme of moving beyond the old storyline and its good-bad imagery. He still could’ve been wiped out easily and build towards a greater threat; imagine if the First Order and the resistance had to be forced to work together?

In the future, with more media, it may be possible to heavily edit TLJ and Rise into this film, but that would take an incredible level of storywriting skill.

While that’s true, let’s not pretend JJ or Rian cared about that concept either. In fact, no one actually cared about it other than Lucas, since Lucas’ idea of the balance is no Sith. Pretty much everyone who wrote things past ROTJ ignored this, EU or Disney, since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.

Sure, but at least none of the ST movies we got ended with “it turns out the Dark Side IS good after all, and that Gray Jedi, something that deeply go against everything about how the force has been depicted thus far in any canonical media and how it was set down by George, are totally right as a concept, even though using the dark side is genuinely inherently corrosive to the user’s soul and unavoidably corrupts their moral core when people are under its unfluence.”

Because that’s where Treverrow’s script goes. You can have a little corruption, as a treat.

thebluefrog said:

idir_hh said:

since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.

At the the announcement of the Lucasfilm buy-out I had my hopes up for a villian akin to the Yizhon Vohng, an outer galaxy threat. An enemy that threatened the force itself.

Seriously. When I saw TFA, I had figured Luke had been forced into exile to focus on a much larger threat. The tragedy would’ve been he KNEW the First Order was rising and killing his friends, but was forced to see the bigger picture.

This is confusing to me, because TFA straight up tells us exactly why Luke went into exile. When asked, Han says:

He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible… He walked away from everything.

This seems pretty clear to me.

omnimuffin said:

While that’s true, let’s not pretend JJ or Rian cared about that concept either. In fact, no one actually cared about it other than Lucas, since Lucas’ idea of the balance is no Sith. Pretty much everyone who wrote things past ROTJ ignored this, EU or Disney, since no Sith villains make for a less exciting franchise.

Sure, but at least none of the ST movies we got ended with “it turns out the Dark Side IS good after all, and that Gray Jedi, something that deeply go against everything about how the force has been depicted thus far in any canonical media and how it was set down by George, are totally right as a concept, even though using the dark side is genuinely inherently corrosive to the user’s soul and unavoidably corrupts their moral core when people are under its unfluence.”

Because that’s where Treverrow’s script goes. You can have a little corruption, as a treat.

Sure, it would’ve been against the “balance” idea…which is basically a fancy word for “No bad guys.” Which is immediately violated with Snoke, Kylo and then Palpatine. George’s story was that Anakin brought balance by ending Palpatine. Anything after that renders the balance idea…moot.

Grey Jedi would’ve actually flown from the Disney setup, so it goes back to Rian who was trying to REALLY push the franchise away from the Jedi/Sith good/bad ideology. At least then RoS would’ve flown thematically instead of stamping it right back down to ROTJ’s “kill off bad guy for balance.”

Seriously. When I saw TFA, I had figured Luke had been forced into exile to focus on a much larger threat. The tragedy would’ve been he KNEW the First Order was rising and killing his friends, but was forced to see the bigger picture.

This is confusing to me, because TFA straight up tells us exactly why Luke went into exile. When asked, Han says:

He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible… He walked away from everything.

This seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, however, we aren’t told WHY it happened. And Han solo’s 3rd hand report can have inaccuracies, easily.

For example, here’s a take why did “the boy” do it. Note that in the movie they never SPECIFICALLY say it was Kylo. Sure, we know it’s him and they drop many hints, but it wasn’t set in stone yet. Star Wars changes huge plot point directions all the time.

What if something happened where the boy’s force powers suddenly went out of control and killed everyone by accident? What if it was a harbinger of future problems with The Force itself? What if the boy was driven insane, and not only did Luke feel responsible, he also realized it was going to get worse? If Anakin was the vergence in the force, what would the opposite be? Someone who poured force OUTWARD into everything?

or

What if the boy was an unknowing beacon of Force energy. What if his very existence was drawing in a more powerful enemy (similar to the Vong?) that wanted to seek out and eradicate the force itself. What if, in learning that he was destined to destroy not just the Jedi but bring death to the galaxy? The realizing could drive him mad and instead chose to embrace the coming annihilation. Instead of being a Sith, he wanted become something more: the Forceless, destined to erase the Sith and Jedi forever.

Just 2 ideas I just came up with that are beyond just good vs evil/Sith vs Jedi.

Yes, however, we aren’t told WHY it happened. And Han solo’s 3rd hand report can have inaccuracies, easily.

He’s talking about his son and his best friend. I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about.

For example, here’s a take why did “the boy” do it. Note that in the movie they never SPECIFICALLY say it was Kylo. Sure, we know it’s him and they drop many hints, but it wasn’t set in stone yet. Star Wars changes huge plot point directions all the time.

I mean, it was very much firmly established at the time. All of the supporting material made it abundantly clear it was Kylo. It’s said in no uncertain terms in the TFA visual dictionary.

Anyway, this discussion isn’t productive and we’re distracting from the purpose of the topic.

omnimuffin said:

Supposedly, the only major change in later drafts is that Leia dies earlier and that Snoke but Worse Tor Valum is replaced by a holocron, though obviously that’s hard to confirm without the scripts.

Another major change is that the fight at the end is a 3-way fight between Kylo, Rey, and this Knight of Ren girl called Sollony, who’s the new Phasma, basically, and is there at the end so Kylo isn’t the final enemy.

jonh said:

I showed a friend ghost force ghosts today, and he recommended that I add a little more sparkle to the jedi close-ups. I’m going to do a test, let’s see what remains.

John, did you consider adding Leia? Or Adi Gallia/Shaak Ti/Aayla Secura? Or did that turn out to be difficult (I mean, the Jedi are basically glorified extras, but Leia?)

StarkillerAG said:

You can’t read the full draft yet, but you can read a plot summary here:

https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/i-read-colin-trevorrow-and-derek-connollys-final-star-wars-episode-ix-script/

I don’t think it’s much of an improvement. Mustafar, Coruscant, and Mortis are replaced with generic planets, and there’s a female Knight of Ren who only exists to give Rey and Kylo someone to team up against once Kylo turns good.

What’s wrong with a female knight of Ren?

I don’t have any problem with the concept; all of the Knights wear thick enough clothing that you wouldn’t be able to tell any more than you could tell Enfys Nest was a woman. My problem is that Sollony ain’t one of the Knights of Ren we see in the flashback or in any of the supporting material. She comes out of nowhere.

omnimuffin said:

I don’t have any problem with the concept; all of the Knights wear thick enough clothing that you wouldn’t be able to tell any more than you could tell Enfys Nest was a woman. My problem is that Sollony ain’t one of the Knights of Ren we see in the flashback or in any of the supporting material. She comes out of nowhere.

How do we know that? We don’t have the script.