SomethingStarWarsRelated said:
This might be ambitious and may not be something to do, but would you consider asking help from someone very talented and experienced with DeepFakes to fix Leia in the flashback scene. She looks too much like her character model in Battlefront II in there.
That’s Carrie Fisher’s actual face from Jedi, not CGI. I don’t know how an amateur could make it look better using deepfake technology.
It didn’t look like they merged archived material for that scene. If that’s true, could you tell me which scene from Return of the Jedi they pulled her face from? Was it when she was struggling to tell Han that her and Luke were related?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9d1bkRC0Hs&t=1s
So it is essentially a deepfake…
Wow. That’s impressive. Leia still does look a little funny, though. Luke looks fine.
The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.
It seems doable (for someone who is not me, anyway) to replaces the Snokes in a jar with Palpatines. It would essentially just be a still image mapped over and tracked for the shot.
It seems doable (for someone who is not me, anyway) to replaces the Snokes in a jar with Palpatines. It would essentially just be a still image mapped over and tracked for the shot.
I don’t know if this has been discussed yet, but apparently in the novel Palps “spirit/force ghost/whatever” is in a clone that degrades since the clone cannot house him … literally falling apart to do so. Kinda what I was expecting the direction they were going.
I like the idea of putting some Palpy bodies in those tubs to “help” answer the question why/how Palps is around … I don’t like comics/books/tweets/etc. that explain things in a movie OUTSIDE of the actual movie. We don’t ned EVERYTHING be overly explained, but for major plot points … we need some kind of answer or at least applied reasoning.
By doing what you are proposing HAL, it would help answer the question without being overly blatant and over explaining things.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
I’m down with that idea, but that makes it even more necessary to come up with some way to communicate to the audience at the end that Palps is 100% for realsies dead this time, you guys - otherwise it’s just, “Well, we saw all his clone bodies earlier, clearly he’s just gonna get cloned again.”
I’m down with that idea, but that makes it even more necessary to come up with some way to communicate to the audience at the end that Palps is 100% for realsies dead this time, you guys - otherwise it’s just, “Well, we saw all his clone bodies earlier, clearly he’s just gonna get cloned again.”
I think the shockwave created when Palpatine is killed might destroy the liquid tanks containing the cloned bodies?
The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.
I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.
Honestly I was a bit iffy about Palpatine being a clone, but in retrospect having Kylo see clones of Palpatine would be the clearest way to explain to the audience how he is back. Seeing clones of Palpatine would serve a greater purpose for the story TROS than seeing clones of Snoke, who plays no role in this film. Seeing clones of Snoke doesn’t make it any clearer as to who he was, or who the original Snoke was, if there even was one. You could even keep Palpatine’s dialogue regarding him if you wanted to keep that connection.
I’m not really saying clone Palpatine is a better idea than Frankenstein Palpatine, but we don’t see or get a clear explanation in the film that Sith Cultists recovered Palpatine’s body from the wreckage of the Death Star, and put it back together again like some demonic Humpty Dumpty. At least with the pickled Palpatines idea, the movie would actually show us how he survived, rather than just leaving us with “dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew”.
But I do agree with Ash that there has to be a more effective way to show that Palpatine is definitively dead. I really think the Force ghosts need to manifest in some way, and basically use Rey as a conduit to destroy Palpatine’s malevolent spirit once and for all. I think ways to actually portray this would be really worth brainstorming.
Hey, Hal. I know that you have a life as us fan editors do too. But I was wondering that in the future, most likely when the film arrives on Blu-ray, since there’s no deleted scenes available, would you be interested if I offered you a pitch scenario of restructuring scenes in the narrative?
The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.
I’m down with that idea, but that makes it even more necessary to come up with some way to communicate to the audience at the end that Palps is 100% for realsies dead this time, you guys - otherwise it’s just, “Well, we saw all his clone bodies earlier, clearly he’s just gonna get cloned again.”
I get your reasoning … but let’s be honest about this … We are talking about the very thing that was done for this movie. In ROTJ,he was tossed down and his “dark side energy/spirit/thingy” was released … And in this movie, again he was now viewably exploded and his energy was released. Again. We pretty much have to accept the “logic” here anyway.
…
So yeah, even in this movie as is Disney can do the same thing again if they wanted more Palps for Star Wars in Episode 25, The Return of the Return of the Return of Palpy.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
But depending on how you frame it, that could be the point. TFA and TLJ definitely play into the idea of the cycle of good and evil, and even though you can’t destroy evil forever, that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth fighting against it.
So it actually might make more sense that there’s always a chance that Palpatine, who is basically the personification of evil in Star Wars, could always return.
I recall Dom having an idea of changing his last line to something like, “I have died before” and Rey saying, “I’ll be waiting.” (Or have them say nothing at all). Basically playing into that idea of people needing to be ever vigilant against the rise of evil.
BUT, if you did want to make it clear that he’s dead for good, I do think the Force ghosts playing some part in it, figuratively dragging him to hell, could help make his demise feel more absolute.
But depending on how you frame it, that could be the point. TFA and TLJ definitely play into the idea of the cycle of good and evil, and even though you can’t destroy evil forever, that doesn’t mean it isn’t worth fighting against it.
So it actually might make more sense that there’s always a chance that Palpatine, who is basically the personification of evil in Star Wars, could always return.
I recall Dom having an idea of changing his last line to something like, “I have died before” and Rey saying, “I’ll be waiting.” (Or have them say nothing at all). Basically playing into that idea of people needing to be ever vigilant against the rise of evil.
Yes. The question is just how to accomplish.
Now Palpatines confirmed to be a clone and also explained is the decaying snoke appearance in TFA & TLJ as not being able to hold his powerful force spirit for long hence the tanks of other incubated snoke bodies.
This would explain all his talk in RTJ about strike me down with all of your hatred as doing so would let Palpatine take over whoever does kill him while angered with his dark force spirit akin to 1998s film Fallen. Going further would it be right in thinking Palpatine always had this ability “which some consider to be unnatural” and that Darth plagueis and Palpatine are one in the same. This would explain the statues in snokes throne room and the relationship with those attendence aliens from the unknown region also in snokes throneroom in TLJ as well as Exegol cultists. How this may shape into an edit of ROS erm… I’m still thinking over 🤔
Possibly emphasize that the cultists on Exegol are the key reason that the emperors spirit was able to reinbody itself and without those cultists hes not coming back.
“We Are What They Grow Beyond” - Yoda
My Prefered Saga Viewing Preference:
Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith Special Edition (StankPac Edit) * Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. IV - A New Hope D+77 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. V - Empire Strikes Back D+80 (OohTeeDee Edit)
Ep. VI - Return of The Jedi OTD83 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. VII - The Force Awakens Restructured (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi Legendary (Hal 9000 Edit) * Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker Ascendant (Hal 9000 Edit)
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I don’t follow every TROS thread so I apologize if this has already been posted elsewhere, but I’d suggest giving this a listen. Essentially it’s Ian McDiarmid saying a line from an old version of the script that pretty much confirms Palpatine is a clone. The line is: “More than a clone; less than a man.” He does it in character too, which is tight.
The audio definitely isn’t amazing, but perhaps some wizardry could be done to make it usable?
The audio definitely isn’t amazing, but perhaps some wizardry could be done to make it usable?
Secrets only the Sith knew would have to be used to make that audio usable. Too bad because it’s a great line.
heil Palpatine!
I’m down with that idea, but that makes it even more necessary to come up with some way to communicate to the audience at the end that Palps is 100% for realsies dead this time, you guys - otherwise it’s just, “Well, we saw all his clone bodies earlier, clearly he’s just gonna get cloned again.”
Hmm, I’m not sure how this causes greater need for confirmation that he’s dead forever this time. It was already sorely needed to begin with! (Unless he represents the sort of evil that cannot be killed along with any one man and is never truly vanquished.)
Hey, Hal. I know that you have a life as us fan editors do too. But I was wondering that in the future, most likely when the film arrives on Blu-ray, since there’s no deleted scenes available, would you be interested if I offered you a pitch scenario of restructuring scenes in the narrative?
Of course! Don’t be shy.
If the deleted scenes ever see the light of day, would you do another version of this edit with some of them added in?
The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.
Probably!
So this is my proposed narrative structure that I wanted to share. Because there are no deleted scenes, restructuring the scenes in this order may help the film feel less rushed.
Opening with Kylo Ren and Palpatine
Rey’s Training
Rey & Leia’s Conversation
Light Speed Skipping Sequence
Kylo Ren’s Mask Repaired
Falcon’s Return to Resistance Base
Resistance Discussing Palpatine’s Return
Group Discusses Traveling to Pasaana and Depart
First Order Conference Discussion
Group Arrives on Pasaana
Rey and Kylo Ren’s 1st Force Conversation
Group Meets Lando
Speeder Sequence
Knights of Ren Arrive on Pasaana
Underground Cave Sequence
Rey & Kylo Ren TIE Fighter and Force Lightning Sequence
Rey & Finn Discuss Her Power
Falcon is Boarded the First Order Ship
The Group Mourns Chewie’s Death and Discuss Traveling to Kijimi
First Order Take Chewie Into Custody
Arrival on Kijimi and Encounter with Zorii Bliss
The Group Hacks C-3PO
C-3PO is Shut Down
Kylo Ren is Reported of Activity on Kijimi
Poe & Zorii Talk
C-3PO Translates the Message
The Group Flee and Kylo Ren Arrives
The Group Board the First Order Ship
Rey Mind Tricks the Stormtroopers
Kylo Ren Searches Kijimi
Chewie is Rescued
The Group is Captured
Rey & Kylo Ren’s Force Duel Part 1
Pryde Orders to Kill the Group
Rey & Kylo Ren’s Force Duel Part 2
Hux Reveals Himself
Kylo Ren Offers Rey to Join Him
Pryde Kills Hux
Rey & Finn Discuss Her Lineage
Kylo Ren & Palpatine Talk
The Group Arrive on Endor
Encounter with Jannah
Finn & Jannah Talk
Rey Travels to the Death Star
Finn & Poe Bicker About Rey
Rey Searches the Death Star
Leia Feels Ben
Rey vs. Kylo Ren
The Group Arrive Back to Leia’s Death
(Possibly add in a exterior shot of the planet’s surface as Chewie’s painful growl is echoed. Maybe try adding a cross fade to another shot to simulate the passage of time on the planet to help sink in the impact of Leia’s death. Just and idea.)
C-3PO’s Memory Restored
Finn Talks with D-O
Poe Talks with Leia & Lando
Finn & Poe Discuss What They’ve Learned
Rey & Luke’s Conversation
Ben & Han’s Conversation
Palpatine Promotes Pryde
Resistance Discuss Traveling to Exegol
Poe’s Speech
The Resistance Takes Off
Rey Arrives on Exegol
The Resistance Arrives
The Battle Begins
Ben Arrives and Begins His Search for Rey
Palpatine Offers Rey the Throne
Ground Battle Occurs
Palpatine Allows Rey to Kill Him
Ben vs. The Knights of Ren
Palpatine Comes Back to Power
The Fleet Arrives
Palpatine Releases His Power
Rey Defeats Palpatine
First Order is Defeated
Reylo Moment and Ben’s Death
The Resistance Departs
Celebration
(Maybe leave it on a black screen to let the music wrap up before transitioning to Tatooine. Maybe even add an FX shot of the Falcon flying towards the planet. Someone could help you out with that.)
Rey on Tatooine
Sorry for how long this came out as. I understand the film arrives on Blu-ray in a few weeks, but once you see it again, this list may give you a better picture on how these sequences can be restructured and shuffled around. You may feel that this list does not suit your vision, but it is an idea to help get you started when you come around to working on Episode IX. Thanks, Hal!
The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.
I don’t follow every TROS thread so I apologize if this has already been posted elsewhere, but I’d suggest giving this a listen. Essentially it’s Ian McDiarmid saying a line from an old version of the script that pretty much confirms Palpatine is a clone. The line is: “More than a clone; less than a man.” He does it in character too, which is tight.
The audio definitely isn’t amazing, but perhaps some wizardry could be done to make it usable?
Here’s my attempt to clean up the background noise: https://mega.nz/#!bGZy2Sgb!nNUL-Fz75kM1s0M_2rzmGqhHPdttpCpQaGQ3xtloF_M
Also a version with some emulated plate reverb and a fade in the middle to minimize the remaining background noise: https://mega.nz/#!WHB2XSxD!hHFjBD_mZZQ_ZKpgPTl62xtMKZo7YCwvYFUCt_sZHsY
^ Thanks, nl! It is hard to totally picture all of those scenes in that order, but once I can see the movie again I’m sure I’ll be in a better place to appraise it in terms of desirability and feasibility. Scene transitions can be difficult, but this film’s relentless BLAH pacing may allow for less polish than I’d usually strive for.
I can’t listen to the Emperor’s line right now, but that’s be amazing if it were able to blend in seamlessly after all.
Damn, the Emperor line with the added reverb is excellent. I think if a little more work was done to make it match to his existing dialogue as close as possible, it could totally work.
Man, if that can be polished all the way … that opens up some possibilities.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
Here’s my attempt to clean up the background noise: https://mega.nz/#!bGZy2Sgb!nNUL-Fz75kM1s0M_2rzmGqhHPdttpCpQaGQ3xtloF_M
Also a version with some emulated plate reverb and a fade in the middle to minimize the remaining background noise: https://mega.nz/#!WHB2XSxD!hHFjBD_mZZQ_ZKpgPTl62xtMKZo7YCwvYFUCt_sZHsY
Wow, great work! Based on what I heard through my headphones the version with reverb makes individual words a little hard to pick out but overall it’s way cleaner! Part of me wonders if an impressionist could provide a better version of the line, but at that point you might as well just add any line you want!
It seems doable (for someone who is not me, anyway) to replaces the Snokes in a jar with Palpatines. It would essentially just be a still image mapped over and tracked for the shot.
The most dramatic, effective and realistic image would be multiple clones that clearly look like Palpatine but are younger.
heil Palpatine!
I’m down with that idea, but that makes it even more necessary to come up with some way to communicate to the audience at the end that Palps is 100% for realsies dead this time, you guys - otherwise it’s just, “Well, we saw all his clone bodies earlier, clearly he’s just gonna get cloned again.”
I remember hearing that in the LotR books, when Saruman dies, we see his spirit rise up and float towards the Undying Lands from whence it came, only to be blown back. Something like that. I think we could with something like that where we see Palpatine’s spirit (blue like the stuff when he “dies” in RotJ) rise from his corpse and then that spirit is visibly torn apart, preferably with some kind of face screaming in agony.
Personally, though, I much prefer him being frankensteined back together because:
a) Clones are cheesy
b) Think of the awesome design potential of cyborg Palpatine (admittedly cheesy too, but in a good way)
While Clones are cheesy, they are part of the fabric of Star Wars. Plus there’s a precedent for the Emperor resurrecting like this in the EU. And I find the idea of his body surviving the DS2 explosion less believable.