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Info: Aspect Ratios of Original Trilogies

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 (Edited)

Hello All,

There is a lot of conflicting information out there so I wanted to start this thread to see if we could nail down once and for all…

What were the ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIOS of the ORIGINAL TRILOGY movies shown in US theaters during their original runs?

For example, this IMDB webpage says 2.39:1:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

But then this IMDB webpage says “2.20 : 1 (70 mm prints), 2.35 : 1 (theatrical ratio), 2.39 : 1”
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/technical

So if 2.20 was the 70mm prints, and 2.35 shown in theaters, what was 2.39 used for, and was it shown in theaters?

I was lucky enough to see the original in 1977 when I was 8 years old and today I want to recreate that experience at home as closely as I can.

Happy Discussions everyone!

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All three Star Wars films would’ve been shown in 2.39 on 35mm, and 70mm blow-ups cropped to 2.20 of course. The reason there is conflicting info on scope aspect ratios is because standards changed a couple times I think. To my knowledge, any film made in 1970+ was projected with a 2.39 gate. This wiki page actually has the history here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_format#Aspect_ratio

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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 (Edited)

The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”

Correction - the back of Episode IV states “theatrical aspect ration 2.35:1”

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riftamos said:

The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”

Interesting! Thank you. I don’t have the LDs or the videotapes, I only have the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays.

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Dek Rollins said:

All three Star Wars films would’ve been shown in 2.39 on 35mm, and 70mm blow-ups cropped to 2.20 of course. The reason there is conflicting info on scope aspect ratios is because standards changed a couple times I think. To my knowledge, any film made in 1970+ was projected with a 2.39 gate. This wiki page actually has the history here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic_format#Aspect_ratio

Thanks for the link! Excuse my ignorance. Are you saying that 35mm film can be blown-up to 70mm? And why would it need to be cropped to 2.20? Is that why IMDB shows multiple ratios for A New Hope?

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70mm has an inherently wide aspect ratio (it doesn’t use anamorphosis) but its frame is ‘only’ 2.20:1. Thus any prints derived from a ‘full’ widescreen source, e.g. ‘blown up’ from anamorphic 35mm, will lose a little picture information from the sides.

Opinions vary as to whether a 70mm blow-up actually offers better image quality than a straight-up 35mm print, but it did have the undeniable advantage of magnetic 6-track sound (which hairy_hen has replicated for the despecialized and 4K77/4K83 preservations) and was more commonly used in big theatres for showcase screenings.

I don’t know of anyone purposefully making a 2.20:1 version to recreate the 70mm experience. I guess the real question is which cinema you went to for that first viewing? Did you go to a big screen, which might have been showing a 70mm print with 6-track stereo, or a smaller theatre showing regular 35mm (with Dolby Stereo if you were lucky)?

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surroundsound99 said:

riftamos said:

The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”

Interesting! Thank you. I don’t have the LDs or the videotapes, I only have the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays.

Check out my thread on the LD “Faces” upscale to 1080p60, I’m working on a current project for the original trilogy and just finished a V1.0 draft of '77

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And to be blunt, there is a lot of imperfection in what you actually see on the screen. It depends on how accurately the theater was built and how well the camera is aimed at the screen, how the film is adjusted in the projector, and any curvature that shows up. From the 35 mm scans that have been done, all the 2.39:1 versions from LD to streaming, capture more of the image from the film than you would have seen in a theater. The various impefections in how films were projected from film meant that some of the image was projected on the black area surrounding the reflective screen and went unseen. In ANH, the wide shot of Vader walking over to the Falcon in the Death Star Hanger has two stormtroopers on either side of the screen. When I saw the SE in the theater in 97, they were partly cut off, but on the DVD, Blu-Ray, Disney+ and the 35 mm scan of the 1977 prints, you fully see all the stormtroopers and a bit of the hanger on either side.

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Jonno said:

I guess the real question is which cinema you went to for that first viewing? Did you go to a big screen, which might have been showing a 70mm print with 6-track stereo, or a smaller theatre showing regular 35mm (with Dolby Stereo if you were lucky)?

I went to a small theater in a small town. I seem to remember it was a “normal” sized screen, so based on what you said it was probably “regular 35mm” showing. Funny you ask about Dolby, I remember seeing speakers on the side walls and even at the age of 8 I could tell the sound was out of balance and should have been better! From there came my lifelong desire to hear SW the way George intended it.

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riftamos said:

Check out my thread on the LD “Faces” upscale to 1080p60, I’m working on a current project for the original trilogy and just finished a V1.0 draft of '77

Will do, thank you!

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SKYWALKER SAGA 4K BOXED SET IS COMING!! Per Blu-ray.com it might be just a Best Buy exclusive but I’m not sure:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Wars-The-Skywalker-Saga-4K-Blu-ray/259357/

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/star-wars-9-movie-collection-digital-copy-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-blu-ray-only--best-buy/6393929.p?skuId=6393929&irclickid=0XUW4s2d-xyOULX0MdV3iVCmUknRkO3ih3rKRU0&irgwc=1&ref=198&loc=0XUW4s2d-xyOULX0MdV3iVCmUknRkO3ih3rKRU0&acampID=615614&mpid=1808408

And right now it’s says it’s coming in 2.39:1, and of interest to this discussion, “Original aspect ratio: 2.39:1”. We’ll see how it actually comes. It looks like that webpage is a work in progress but supposedly we’ll find out on March 31st!

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Just as a heads up, that release might not be what you’re looking for if you’re in pursuit of an authentic theatrical experience.

All current indications seem to be that the discs will only feature the current 4K special editions of the OT (as seen on Disney+), which will look very nice but will also be quite some distance from the 77/80/83 releases, editorially speaking.

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Jonno said:

Just as a heads up, that release might not be what you’re looking for if you’re in pursuit of an authentic theatrical experience.

All current indications seem to be that the discs will only feature the current 4K special editions of the OT (as seen on Disney+), which will look very nice but will also be quite some distance from the 77/80/83 releases, editorially speaking.

Yeah, you’re right! But I’m going to buy it anyways 😃

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surroundsound99 said:

riftamos said:

The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”

Interesting! Thank you. I don’t have the LDs or the videotapes, I only have the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays.

My mistake - the back of the Episode IV laserdisc actually states “theatrical aspect ratio 2.35:1”

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riftamos said:

surroundsound99 said:

riftamos said:

The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”

Interesting! Thank you. I don’t have the LDs or the videotapes, I only have the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays.

My mistake - the back of the Episode IV laserdisc actually states “theatrical aspect ratio 2.35:1”

Thanks for catching that!

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Is this author referring to the Despecialized Editions, or is he referring to something else?

“But if you want to see high-quality versions of the original Star Wars trilogy as it appeared to audiences in the late 1970s and early 1980s, with some visual effects mistakes from the old versions fixed without anything else being changed, then they are out there.” https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/03/disney-acquired-fox-star-wars-meaning.html

And to what is this author referring to?

“Unaltered versions of the original trilogy are available — but, because they’re out of production, they’re not available through official channels.” https://www.inverse.com/article/3942-why-finding-the-original-1977-star-wars-verges-on-the-impossible

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surroundsound99 said:

Is this author referring to the Despecialized Editions, or is he referring to something else?

“But if you want to see high-quality versions of the original Star Wars trilogy as it appeared to audiences in the late 1970s and early 1980s, with some visual effects mistakes from the old versions fixed without anything else being changed, then they are out there.” https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/03/disney-acquired-fox-star-wars-meaning.html

That or any number of other similar fan projects.

And to what is this author referring to?

“Unaltered versions of the original trilogy are available — but, because they’re out of production, they’re not available through official channels.” https://www.inverse.com/article/3942-why-finding-the-original-1977-star-wars-verges-on-the-impossible

Same, or any of the out of print official releases (VHS, Laserdisc, 2006 “GOUT” DVD).

surroundsound99 said:

Just found this quote from George: “…The other movie, it’s on VHS, if anybody wants it.” By “other”, he means the original, but what version of the videotape did he mean? https://ew.com/article/2016/02/16/star-wars-restore-1977/

Literally any VHS of the movies released before 1997.

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ChainsawAsh said:

surroundsound99 said:

Just found this quote from George: “…The other movie, it’s on VHS, if anybody wants it.” By “other”, he means the original, but what version of the videotape did he mean? https://ew.com/article/2016/02/16/star-wars-restore-1977/

Literally any VHS of the movies released before 1997.

Thanks for the input. I found this actually on StarWars.com suggesting that each subsequent videotape release made alterations: “Each VHS release had something that the previous did not, be it improved audio, a different aspect ratio…” https://www.starwars.com/news/collectibles-from-the-outer-rim-star-wars-vhs-releases

I just found out about the Silver Screen Edition(s) done by Team Negative One which seems to me to be the most authoritative way to determine original aspect ratio, a single reel! No offense to the other hard-working fan projects but it seems they piece their works together whereas a single reel… wow… how much more authentic can you get than that?!

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The Silver Screen Edition should not be used as an end all reference. When making that preservation, anything was up to their choice. I don’t know off hand what aspect ratio they used for it, but I would bet on 2.35 since most home video releases use that as the standard for scope movies. But if you’re a stickler for details, 2.39 I think is correct.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Time

Dek Rollins said:

The Silver Screen Edition should not be used as an end all reference. When making that preservation, anything was up to their choice. I don’t know off hand what aspect ratio they used for it, but I would bet on 2.35 since most home video releases use that as the standard for scope movies. But if you’re a stickler for details, 2.39 I think is correct.

Thanks Dek!

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Asking for your help! Would the owners of these versions tell me what aspect ratios they are, and what versions? Thanks!

4K77
4K80
4K83
Silver Screen Edition
Harmy’s Despecialized

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4K80 doesn’t exist yet.

And you do realize that the difference between 2.35:1 and 2.39:1 is basically unnoticeable, right?

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ChainsawAsh said:

And you do realize that the difference between 2.35:1 and 2.39:1 is basically unnoticeable, right?

I didn’t dare say it …

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rick.lang said:

Although the traditional anamorphic format utilized an AR of 2.35:1, the AR of most 35mm anamorphic movies since 1970
is more accurately 2.39:1. Often, this is rounded up to 2.40:1. In many areas the “2.35:1” moniker has stuck in the
same way that “scope” is still used by people in the industry for films made with anamorphic lenses even though
CinemaScope has not been used since 1967.