Fair enough, but it just seemed plausible rather than silly given the rest of the final product.
The last day of 2019 has NOT been a good day for Reylos, has it.
Why today? Did I miss something in the news?
Why today? Did I miss something in the news?
John Boyega is teasing and making fun of Reylo on Twitter and on Instagram, I believe.
John Boyega openly clowned them on twitter and instagram earlier today and everyone else who’s been annoyed with them took the invitation to open fire as well.
His name has been a trending topic on Twitter all day.
https://twitter.com/search?q="John Boyega"&src=tren
So - first, they didn’t get the ending they wanted, and then their detective work about that last shot gets debunked by an editor, and finally John Boyega shines a spotlight on them and they… don’t react well.
One thing I haven’t seen brought up yet is how the Rey-Palpatine lineage now makes TFA absolutely, hilariously coincidental.
The map to Luke is discovered on Jakku by an old friend of Luke’s, and the first person BB-8 carrying the map runs into is the granddaughter of Palpatine, who is in speeder distance of the Millennium Falcon and happens to use this to escape the planet and they happen to be picked up within five minutes by Han Solo and brought to a place that has Luke’s old lightsaber in the basement. All of these things, save the connection between Han and the Falcon, are complete coincidences.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Honestly I think the editor is bullshitting around the answer. The way she answered it just seemed rather weird. Sure, that could’ve been intended to be the last shot when they filmed it, but was who was in the shot always the same?
I don’t think John Boyega and Mark Hamill have ever realized how their negative comments can be lightning rods for online bullying. They can say tons of complimentary things and people will ignore them, but as soon as they say anything negative it becomes fuel for online attacks.
The map to Luke is discovered on Jakku by an old friend of Luke’s, and the first person BB-8 carrying the map runs into is the granddaughter of Palpatine, who is in speeder distance of the Millennium Falcon and happens to use this to escape the planet and they happen to be picked up within five minutes by Han Solo and brought to a place that has Luke’s old lightsaber in the basement. All of these things, save the connection between Han and the Falcon, are complete coincidences.
Another reason why Rey Nobody would’ve made a lot more sense!
Honestly I think the editor is bullshitting around the answer. The way she answered it just seemed rather weird. Sure, that could’ve been intended to be the last shot when they filmed it, but was who was in the shot always the same?
Who knows, but either way I don’t like the implication that a smart editing technique makes something “slapped together.”
I don’t think John Boyega and Mark Hamill have ever realized how their negative comments can be lightning rods for online bullying. They can say tons of complimentary things and people will ignore them, but as soon as they say anything negative it becomes fuel for online attacks.
Yep. And John is free to his opinions, but some of the things he’s said are a little yikes.
The map to Luke is discovered on Jakku by an old friend of Luke’s, and the first person BB-8 carrying the map runs into is the granddaughter of Palpatine, who is in speeder distance of the Millennium Falcon and happens to use this to escape the planet and they happen to be picked up within five minutes by Han Solo and brought to a place that has Luke’s old lightsaber in the basement. All of these things, save the connection between Han and the Falcon, are complete coincidences.
Another reason why Rey Nobody would’ve made a lot more sense!
Exactly!
I’m guessing the Star Wars subreddit is predominantly male teenagers, but it sort of boggles my mind how people are just boxing in anyone who likes Reylo as the creepy fans who want Adam Driver to cheat on his wife with Daisy, or want Kylo to just be abusive to Rey. Most people who like that aren’t crazy people.
I just don’t think people get why it appeals to people, or how it is a common fantasy trope. But people look at Star Wars through a modern real-world lens and they can’t help it, I guess.
EDIT: I do think it sucks in a way that John can’t really make comments like a regular fan without being a spokesperson for the whole community. If a regular fan had said that most would just ignore it. I can understand why John responded to some angry fans, but now everyone sees it as John vs all the Reylos. Just because people like the Ben and Rey dynamic doesn’t mean they all hate John or some shit. Jesus Christ, enough internet for today.
Fandom in general is pretty mentally unhealthy. It only makes sense that smaller, more intensely-focused sub-fandoms would be seen as being even more “yikes.” The mainstreaming of fandom is maybe one of the worst things to have been facilitated by the internet in the 21st century, not just in how it helped normalize toxicity in discourse, but in how entertainment discussions have become both distraction from, and proxy for, ACTUALLY important and and meaningful things happening in the real world.
The more we get distracted, the more we convince ourselves the distractions are more meaningful than they actually are - the more meaning we undeservedly project onto entertainments, the more warped and shrunk our perspectives become, the more toxic and reactionary we are - until the baseline we occupy every time we log on is frequently scared, angry, helpless, and disillusioned, at all times, of most things; things which we can’t control and never could because we don’t actually make movies or tv shows, we just watch them - which only causes us to further pursue pop culture distractions as a form of “escapism.”
It’s a pretty dumb, ugly, vicious circle that’s been mainstreamed and normalized to a fairly disturbing degree. Its partially why our cultural memory is maybe two-weeks long at best.
Anyway - way off topic, I know, so back to the ending shot: I don’t think the editor has any reason to lie about that final shot, so I’ll take their word for it, and it’s honestly a lot more likely that crowdsourced internet detective work wasn’t correct than the editor is lying to cover something up. There’s a lot more evidence of the former being frequently true than there is the latter.
And yes, Rey being Palpatine’s hidden granddaughter is some JJ Abrams “Spock just happens to be in the exact cave that young Kirk escaped from a monster into” level coincidence, LOL
Fandom in general is pretty mentally unhealthy. It only makes sense that smaller, more intensely-focused sub-fandoms would be seen as being even more “yikes.” The mainstreaming of fandom is maybe one of the worst things to have been facilitated by the internet in the 21st century, not just in how it helped normalize toxicity in discourse, but in how entertainment discussions have become both distraction from, and proxy FOR, ACTUALLY import and and meaningful things happening in the real world.
The more we get distracted, the more we convince ourselves the distractions are more meaningful than they actually are - the more meaning we undeservedly project onto entertainments, the more warped and shrunk our perspectives become, the more toxic and reactionary we are - until the baseline we occupy every time we log on is frequently scared, angry, helpless, and disillusioned, at all times, of most things; things which we can’t control and never could because we don’t actually make movies or tv shows, we just watch them - which only causes us to further pursue pop culture distractions as a form of “escapism.”
It’s a pretty dumb, ugly, vicious circle that’s been mainstreamed and normalized to a fairly disturbing degree. Its partially why our cultural memory is maybe two-weeks long at best.
Broom Kid, I’ve seen you bring this up several times before, to the point where I legitimately wonder why you are on a site which proudly proclaims its intensely-focused sub-fandom cred if you believe that such a thing is unhealthy.
While I agree with you that many people use the internet to hyperfocus on their negativity with regards to movies and shows, these online spaces are also filled with people who have genuine appreciation for these properties. These are people who saw Star Wars with their friends and family and through enjoyment of these films formed stronger bonds of friendship because of them. These are people who took some of their ideas and philosophy to heart and used them as empowering messages in dark times in their lives.
Most of toxicity in fandoms arises when the art in question becomes so vast and varied in quality that gatekeeping and no-true-fan-ing becomes the norm. It arises when schisms erupt and battle-lines are drawn, when versions of art are suppressed and its creators gaslight its fans for decades, when creators declare levels of cannonicity and declare decades of creative work null and void, and the creative reins are handed to those who replace those works with other works of dubious quality. In this way the toxicity of the Star Wars fandom has long been cultivated and encouraged. Yet despite all of this there is a tremendous amount of goodwill for Star Wars even now. I believe that site has in some small way helped in keeping the suppressed art alive and reversed some of the toxicity the creators have cultivated around the fans. I believe that this preservation and the fandom which created it is good, and more than that it is right. All acts of appreciation for art are good, and even criticism when tempered with praise.
I want to leave in 2019 the idea that a fandom is toxic purely because it is a fandom. If you find yourself becoming a more angry, worried person because of a fandom then absolutely it is unhealthy and you must find a way to regain that former appreciation or find a way to leave peaceably. But I love Star Wars, the Original Trilogy. I appreciate the bold intent behind the Prequels and the vast imagination of the EU. I find wonderful vivid characters and excellent production quality in the Sequel Trilogy, and adore the Mandalorian with my girlfriend, who now also has a new appreciation for this world. People are allowed to have strong positive feelings for works of art, and they are allowed to come together to express those feelings. I don’t think that is a bad thing.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I don’t believe fandom is an absolute bad but there is some inherent toxicity to it, in regards to the possessive nature it engenders in fans. That’s not healthy and the way the internet works really just serves to heighten the hyperbolic and extreme emotions and unhealthy tendencies. I don’t really know if there’s a solution or anything but it’s a complicated issue.
Broom Kid, I’ve seen you bring this up several times before, to the point where I legitimately wonder why you are on a site which proudly proclaims its intensely-focused sub-fandom cred if you believe that such a thing is unhealthy.
Couple reasons. Three, actually:
I’m not any different than anyone else who struggles with breaking (or at least modulating) unhealthy habits, or who is trying to find a way to maintain a balance that works. Plus I like Star Wars.
This place DOES have its share of toxic behaviors and bad posters engaging in mostly unhealthy behavior, but it’s also small and self-contained enough (and willing to self-police in a manner that many communities don’t indulge, or in some cases actively shun) that compared to other communities, it’s relatively “safe,” if you will. Plus it’s one of the few places in which “community” isn’t a pretentious euphemism, but an accurate descriptor.
All things in moderation, etc.
I want to leave in 2019 the idea that a fandom is toxic purely because it is a fandom. People are allowed to have strong positive feelings for works of art, and they are allowed to come together to express those feelings. I don’t think that is a bad thing.
It doesn’t HAVE to be, no, and I agree that it’s not always. But I’ve seen about 20 years of experience that it almost always becomes that way, and the last 10 of that 20 has been an ongoing example in how bad it becomes once mainstreamed.
Being a fan of something is fine. Sharing why you like things with others who might share your interests is also fine. But millions of people manage to do this all the time without being part of a fandom. Liking popular culture isn’t special, and that self-awareness goes a long way towards avoiding the mentally unhealthy pitfalls fandom is constantly introducing while its members act like those pitfalls are actually swimming pools. Letting entertainment supplement your life experiences is good! That’s what it’s supposed to do! Letting your enjoyment of an entertainment REPLACE large parts of your personality? That’s fandom. One of those results often discards moderation and perspective, and promotes obsession, entitlement, possessiveness, and fixation, and that’s where it can get unhealthy if you’re not paying attention to yourself and what you’re doing with your time.
Good things can come out of fandoms, have done before, will do again, and are truly remarkable at times. But the presence of a good thing in a bad situation doesn’t transform the situation’s inherent badness. Good students graduate from terrible schools every year. Fandom is like a school that is nothing but electives. That might be fun for a semester or two, but if you’re not careful you wake up a decade later like Wooderson cruising high school parking lots trying to get high with some 5th year seniors because they won’t realize you’ve been making the same jokes and telling the same war stories for the last 10 years.
Again - way off topic. But you asked me directly, so I thought I should at least answer. For what it’s worth, I appreciate that you addressed me directly, and did so with patience and kindness (which we could all do with a lot more of) so for my part, I’m going to try and help fulfill your request to leave conversations about fandom toxicity behind in 2019, so when I do visit here and see fit to pitch in my two cents, I’ll keep that particular penny in my pocket. Or leave it in the tray at the 7-11 before I even come through the door.
Happy New Year!
Hey Nev, had your girlfriend seen the Star Wars films before you jumped into Mandalorian with her? I’m glad you two are enjoying it together!
Happy New Year to you all! I really do think you are all fun and friendly people, and I think about you all a lot. Hope you’re all doing well and wish you a good 2020.
I don’t believe fandom is an absolute bad but there is some inherent toxicity to it, in regards to the possessive nature it engenders in fans. That’s not healthy and the way the internet works really just serves to heighten the hyperbolic and extreme emotions and unhealthy tendencies. I don’t really know if there’s a solution or anything but it’s a complicated issue.
I imagine a vastly improved personal life would solve many problems.
Perhaps I’m just projecting.
Broom Kid, I’ve seen you bring this up several times before, to the point where I legitimately wonder why you are on a site which proudly proclaims its intensely-focused sub-fandom cred if you believe that such a thing is unhealthy.
Couple reasons. Three, actually:
I’m not any different than anyone else who struggles with breaking (or at least modulating) unhealthy habits, or who is trying to find a way to maintain a balance that works. Plus I like Star Wars.
This place DOES have its share of toxic behaviors and bad posters engaging in mostly unhealthy behavior, but it’s also small and self-contained enough (and willing to self-police in a manner that many communities don’t indulge, or in some cases actively shun) that compared to other communities, it’s relatively “safe,” if you will. Plus it’s one of the few places in which “community” isn’t a pretentious euphemism, but an accurate descriptor.
All things in moderation, etc.
I want to leave in 2019 the idea that a fandom is toxic purely because it is a fandom. People are allowed to have strong positive feelings for works of art, and they are allowed to come together to express those feelings. I don’t think that is a bad thing.
It doesn’t HAVE to be, no, and I agree that it’s not always. But I’ve seen about 20 years of experience that it almost always becomes that way, and the last 10 of that 20 has been an ongoing example in how bad it becomes once mainstreamed.
Being a fan of something is fine. Sharing why you like things with others who might share your interests is also fine. But millions of people manage to do this all the time without being part of a fandom. Liking popular culture isn’t special, and that self-awareness goes a long way towards avoiding the mentally unhealthy pitfalls fandom is constantly introducing while its members act like those pitfalls are actually swimming pools. Letting entertainment supplement your life experiences is good! That’s what it’s supposed to do! Letting your enjoyment of an entertainment REPLACE large parts of your personality? That’s fandom. One of those results often discards moderation and perspective, and promotes obsession, entitlement, possessiveness, and fixation, and that’s where it can get unhealthy if you’re not paying attention to yourself and what you’re doing with your time.
Good things can come out of fandoms, have done before, will do again, and are truly remarkable at times. But the presence of a good thing in a bad situation doesn’t transform the situation’s inherent badness. Good students graduate from terrible schools every year. Fandom is like a school that is nothing but electives. That might be fun for a semester or two, but if you’re not careful you wake up a decade later like Wooderson cruising high school parking lots trying to get high with some 5th year seniors because they won’t realize you’ve been making the same jokes and telling the same war stories for the last 10 years.
Again - way off topic. But you asked me directly, so I thought I should at least answer. For what it’s worth, I appreciate that you addressed me directly, and did so with patience and kindness (which we could all do with a lot more of) so for my part, I’m going to try and help fulfill your request to leave conversations about fandom toxicity behind in 2019, so when I do visit here and see fit to pitch in my two cents, I’ll keep that particular penny in my pocket. Or leave it in the tray at the 7-11 before I even come through the door.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for your answer. I’m not saying we should not have discussions about toxicity, but it just seemed weird to me that you so often cast fandom as an absolute bad. I’m glad to hear that this impression was a mistake on my part.
RL, she had seen all the films before (and the OT many times), but she hadn’t rewatched any of it in years or had much interest in SW material really until Mando.
Dom, it’s true that possessiveness is part of the issue, and I’d imagine anyone doing a fanedit could easily be cast as being on the wrong side of that issue. Guilty as charged I suppose. However I’d argue that even in fanediting there can be a difference between ‘deleting stuff I don’t like’ and enhancing/adding to what already exists. I try to do the latter, but it is often splitting hairs.
I’ve taking a break from editing after the workprint was released, and am shifting to some new creative endeavors at least until TROS arrives on video. But I’m sure to stick around here in the meantime regardless. Happy new years everyone!
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I personally think of the toxic fandom issue as one of grumpy people with little else to do. The people on OT.com for the most are are highly intelligent and have well thought out arguments compared to the mostly emotional reaction of the toxic fans. I don’t know of any long time regular poster here that I would consider toxic. I don’t agree with a few people on a regular basis, but their comments are well reasoned even if I don’t agree with them. It makes conversations quite enjoyable and what keeps me posting here. I don’t want to agree with everyone. Disagreement can broaden the mind and make you really think about your position and either find more support for your reasoning or be forced to change your mind. Arguing with a toxic fan just makes you angry. I hate that.
Before the film came out, Abrams and co. said there were references to every film in it. Is this true?
TPM: Qui-Gon’s voice, Ewan and Mace’s voices too I guess, the “balance”
AOTC: No idea. I guess cloning is mentioned and we see Snoke clones? I guess you could count Hayden’s voice for this, and maybe some of the other Jedi?
ROTS: Couple Palpatine lines lifted, Mustafar appearance (barely)
Solo: Lando’s outfit, Ben’s blaster (partly an Aftermath reference)
Rogue One: No idea, although I’ve heard originally Kylo got the wayfinder from Vader’s castle
ANH: The training remote, medals, the homestead, etc
TESB: Raising the X-Wing, Bespin, etc
ROTJ: The Death Star, Endor, etc
TFA: Obvious stuff
TLJ: More obvious stuff
Even TCW gets a reference (Ahsoka’s voice) and Rebels (the Ghost). Wonder what else there is?
Yeah I heard that Vader’s castle was there, it’s his wayfinder. But like many interesting elements that might have fleshed things out it was cut for some reason…
AOTC: No idea. I guess cloning is mentioned and we see Snoke clones? I guess you could count Hayden’s voice for this, and maybe some of the other Jedi?
ALOL
I guess there’s a part with music nearly identical to a portion of “Return to Tatooine” from AOTC. But that doesn’t really count.
It’s not just nearly identical, it’s lifted from the soundtrack from AOTC. There are also snippets lifted from TLJ, TFA, ROTJ and ROTS sprinkled throughout the film.
He did the same thing by dropping in “Burning Homestead” into TFA during Rey and Kylo’s fight.
Why he couldn’t get Williams to simply rescore them is beyond me.
“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017
MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration/id/55707
It’s not just nearly identical, it’s lifted from the soundtrack from AOTC. There are also snippets lifted from TLJ, TFA, ROTJ and ROTS sprinkled throughout the film.
He did the same thing by dropping in “Burning Homestead” into TFA during Rey and Kylo’s fight.
Why he couldn’t get Williams to simply rescore them is beyond me.
It sounded like a new recording to me, same with the ROTS “lift.” The others definitely seemed like the old recordings.
There are quite a few reasons, ultimately I’d think last minute editing is the primary culprit (same with when this happened on the prequels).
Yeah. Old school film composition par excellence as Williams does so well requires having the final edit in front of him to work with.