Yeah, I was wondering, why did you keep that awful jokeful dialog at the opening segment. ¿Does it really work? I see it as a horrible statement to a terrible character. (Poe being the central victim here)
I assume you’re referring to ‘who talks first…’?
There are many edits which remove these lines, but whenever I watch them they tend to remove too many lighthearted moments to the point that the film starts to feel rather lifeless. I think Poe’s dialogue informs his character rather than detracting from it because of his unflappable bravado. Of course it contrasts with the tone of the scene which is why I’m still on the fence about it, but for now I can’t see a strong enough reason to warrant its removal.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I assume you’re referring to ‘who talks first…’?
There are many edits which remove these lines, but whenever I watch them they tend to remove too many lighthearted moments to the point that the film starts to feel rather lifeless. I think Poe’s dialogue informs his character rather than detracting from it because of his unflappable bravado. Of course it contrasts with the tone of the scene which is why I’m still on the fence about it, but for now I can’t see a strong enough reason to warrant its removal.
What do you think about removing just one or the other of “who talks first” and “it’s hard to hear you with the mask”? I removed both at first, but perhaps I’ll keep the mask comment.
I would say it would be to keep “Who talks first? You talk first or I talk first?” I heard a lot of comments about how that line won a lot of people over. To me, I think it would make more sense to cut all his other lines but keep that one (if you had to cut something).
I liked the way Nev at one point made it where Kylo immediately read his mind rather than say, “The old man gave it to you.”
Or, you could add the mind reading sound, then, “Pilot. Resistance. The old man gave it to you. Put him on board.”
Yeah, I was wondering, why did you keep that awful jokeful dialog at the opening segment. ¿Does it really work? I see it as a horrible statement to a terrible character. (Poe being the central victim here)
I absolutely, 100% disagree with this comment. There are some folks that are very anti-humor in Star Wars. I am not one of them.
While yes, I believe there are some jokes that run on or just miss the mark (C3PO’s puns in Attack of the Clones come to mind), Poe’s snarky comments to Kylo Ren are lighthearted and “feel” real. They sold me on him being an awesome character from the start.
If it were my fanedit, I wouldn’t get rid of either line. I think they are both a welcoming introduction, especially for folks that aren’t as familiar with Star Wars — keeps things fun and fresh. Puts some life in Star Wars without being too meta or overbearing.
There is no reason why either of Poe’s intro lines should be removed. Just my opinion, of course.
“The Ziggy Edit” — A Conceptual Fanedit of Return of the Jedi
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-The-Ziggy-Edit/id/17844
Thank you Ziggy, and it’s quite true. There’s a wide variation of opinion on the jokey aspects of the movies so I’ve tried to stick to changes which can be rationalized in terms of plot and character rather than tone, which varies greatly from person to person.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Random thought after seeing TROS: I’m now more pleased than ever that I changed the ending and end music of Starlight, so that now each film will end on a different musical cue.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Yeah, I was wondering, why did you keep that awful jokeful dialog at the opening segment. ¿Does it really work? I see it as a horrible statement to a terrible character. (Poe being the central victim here)
I absolutely, 100% disagree with this comment. There are some folks that are very anti-humor in Star Wars. I am not one of them.
While yes, I believe there are some jokes that run on or just miss the mark (C3PO’s puns in Attack of the Clones come to mind), Poe’s snarky comments to Kylo Ren are lighthearted and “feel” real. They sold me on him being an awesome character from the start.
If it were my fanedit, I wouldn’t get rid of either line. I think they are both a welcoming introduction, especially for folks that aren’t as familiar with Star Wars — keeps things fun and fresh. Puts some life in Star Wars without being too meta or overbearing.
There is no reason why either of Poe’s intro lines should be removed. Just my opinion, of course.
You can’t take that character seriously from that moment on, it is not anti-humor we are talking about it is a mock up performance, looking for the audience attention as you pointed out. If you want to bring a more realistic comparison, you should look at the original set of films, with those late 70’s expressions, where people could really rely on the characters carisma. Now as “real” as that out of tone conversation might seem to you, someone in these circumstances; with the possibility of dying, failing their mission, seeing his fallen comrade right before him, would not react in a comedic way, while at the same time, while he is saying that, you can see he comes off as uncomfortable, and bewildered. This is unrealistic human behaviour, he recieved no pleasure from these comments! If they wanted to imitate a scoundral, scruffy looking, nerf hearder, we’d ought to have seen that out of tone joke follow up with a grind atleast. American movies have relied on this type of mock up scenary for many years now, this is partly because people accept it as it is, and it is boring, unrealistic, and most importantly not funny to the mass mayority of media consuming maniacs.
Yeah, I was wondering, why did you keep that awful jokeful dialog at the opening segment. ¿Does it really work? I see it as a horrible statement to a terrible character. (Poe being the central victim here)
I absolutely, 100% disagree with this comment. There are some folks that are very anti-humor in Star Wars. I am not one of them.
While yes, I believe there are some jokes that run on or just miss the mark (C3PO’s puns in Attack of the Clones come to mind), Poe’s snarky comments to Kylo Ren are lighthearted and “feel” real. They sold me on him being an awesome character from the start.
If it were my fanedit, I wouldn’t get rid of either line. I think they are both a welcoming introduction, especially for folks that aren’t as familiar with Star Wars — keeps things fun and fresh. Puts some life in Star Wars without being too meta or overbearing.
There is no reason why either of Poe’s intro lines should be removed. Just my opinion, of course.
You can’t take that character seriously from that moment on, it is not anti-humor we are talking about it is a mock up performance, looking for the audience attention as you pointed out. If you want to bring a more realistic comparison, you should look at the original set of films, with those late 70’s expressions, where people could really rely on the characters carisma. Now as “real” as that out of tone conversation might seem to you, someone in these circumstances; with the possibility of dying, failing their mission, seeing his fallen comrade right before him, would not react in a comedic way, while at the same time, while he is saying that, you can see he comes off as uncomfortable, and bewildered. This is unrealistic human behaviour, he recieved no pleasure from these comments! If they wanted to imitate a scoundral, scruffy looking, nerf hearder, we’d ought to have seen that out of tone joke follow up with a grind atleast. American movies have relied on this type of mock up scenary for many years now, this is partly because people accept it as it is, and it is boring, unrealistic, and most importantly not funny to the mass mayority of media consuming maniacs.
I can’t stress how strongly I disagree with this.
As has been mentioned, “Who talks first” is the moment that won me over to TFA after going in very apprehensively. I’ll be pretty immediately stacked against any edit that removes it.
I can’t stress how strongly I disagree with this.
As has been mentioned, “Who talks first” is the moment that won me over to TFA after going in very apprehensively. I’ll be pretty immediately stacked against any edit that removes it.
Are you trying to say how much you enjoyed the theatrical cut? Why where you in that position of fear or awareness when entering the theater, and one more thing, to what extent does it benefit the character or the significance of the scene in motion. Could you elaborate your answer a little bit more.
I don’t mind the “Who talks first?” but his last bit about “all the apparatus” has always bugged me. Like a lot of Abrams, it goes just a step too far.
I was able to watch about the first half today, and I thought it was very smooth, successful at what it sets out to do.
I think the more exciting changes are in the last chunk, so I’ll look forward to finishing this later on, before taking a look through TLJ after having seen TROS.
I can’t stress how strongly I disagree with this.
As has been mentioned, “Who talks first” is the moment that won me over to TFA after going in very apprehensively. I’ll be pretty immediately stacked against any edit that removes it.
Are you trying to say how much you enjoyed the theatrical cut? Why where you in that position of fear or awareness when entering the theater, and one more thing, to what extent does it benefit the character or the significance of the scene in motion. Could you elaborate your answer a little bit more.
I mostly enjoyed the theatrical cut, yes, though I strongly prefer Restructured at this point and am excited to check out Starlight when I get the chance to.
When I sat down to see TFA the first time, I was worried that it would suck for a myriad of reasons. Up until “Who talks first,” I was still apprehensive, but that line sold both Poe’s character and the tone of the movie as a whole to me.
It’s one of the “joke” lines that I honestly don’t understand any logic behind removing. Others (“cute boyfriend”) I’d definitely like to see gone, but this one establishes both Poe’s character and the tone of the movie very effectively.
TIE fighter escape:
• Remove Finn saying “Did you see that, did you see that?” Poe “I saw it”.
• Remove Poe saying “well I ain’t using it” and instead just have him say “FN huh, Finn, I’m gonna call you Finn”.
• Remove TIE fighter exploding after being sucked into the sand.
I’ve just watched the workprint, but hadn’t written a review until a decade later. 😉
Bear in mind that I did not read the entire thread (considering it’s 42 pages long, and only the last couple have had the workprint released), so I may be repeating things that others have said.
Since it is a work-in-progress, I’ll only critique on the content of the edit, rather than the nit-picky things. (Though if you’re looking for a nit-pick technical review I can do that too.)
It also seems that I might be a harsher critic of this edit. However, I have tried my best to be as constructive as I can with my criticism. It’s not a horrible edit at all, it’s just that there are a few areas that I feel differently about.
(00:17:11)
Poe’s interrogation: The hinting of SKB felt much too early in the film. However, taking out the first shot of SKB in the wider view might improve it, in order to make it a little more subtle and less apparent. I also feel that the shots inserted in-between could be shortened to make them appear in a quicker succession.
(00:18:01)
I don’t think the next shots with BB-8 in the night is really necessary. We already know he went with Rey, and it’s a really really short sequence anyway. It’s also obvious to me that the first shot is a re-used shot but zoomed in.
(01:00:54)
The added sounds leading Rey to Luke’s lightsaber: I feel the sound effects here should be a bit more varied than just the “No!” child screaming sounds.
(01:18:27)
Rey’s dream sequence prior to the interrogation: I mentally associate fade-to-black transitions between shots with trailers very strongly. Perhaps, you could try cutting out the first shot we see of Rey and extending the black before the first shot. Also, is there some sort of effect that could be applied to shots to make it feel more like it’s a dream sequence rather than a montage? (Maybe the chromatic abberation effect you had for the ending Luke sequence, or some blurring, or even some level of discoloration.)
(01:31:08)
I feel like the whispers are used a little bit too much here.
(01:45:23)
I think the voices should be a little more echo/reverb-y here, to distinguish them from the dialogue heard in the actual scene.
(01:45:56)
This music always takes me to the scene in ANH where Luke finds the Lars homestead raided. I actually don’t know if this was used in the original TFA, this workprint is the first time I’ve seen any TFA in a while.
(01:52:46)
“Force voices” could have more reverb or echo. Also the complete silence feels a little weird, perhaps have some ambient effect or something here.
(01:54:29)
I just came fresh out of watching the beginning of The Last Jedi (mainly to nail down the volume for various TLJ: Rekindled QC tests I was doing), so this shot sticks out to me.
(01:59:24)
Rey’s dream is probably the one thing I’m the most mixed about. It’s an interesting idea, and it takes advantage of the fact that the footage of Rey finding Luke in TFA is different from TLJ. However, for me, a dream sequence works best as a continuous sequence, rather than having outside ongoings interleaved with it. And how would Rey know what Luke looks like? I also prefer to see the footage re-used from TLJ as little as possible, especially since TLJ is the film that comes right after TFA.
Everything else I liked, content-wise.
TIE fighter escape:
• Remove Finn saying “Did you see that, did you see that?” Poe “I saw it”.
• Remove Poe saying “well I ain’t using it” and instead just have him say “FN huh, Finn, I’m gonna call you Finn”.
• Remove TIE fighter exploding after being sucked into the sand.
“The Ziggy Edit” — A Conceptual Fanedit of Return of the Jedi
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-The-Ziggy-Edit/id/17844
I actually favor removing the TIE explosion as well, but I agree that it’s nitpicky. But I don’t understand the other two either.
I suppose they are nitpicky but thought I’d throw them in as a suggestion.
-Remove Finn saying “Did you see that, did you see that?” Poe “I saw it”.
They sound like little kids and it seems excessive.
-Remove Poe saying “well I ain’t using it” and instead just have him say “FN huh, Finn, I’m gonna call you Finn”.
That line sounds so hokey (I know it’s all subjective).
-Remove TIE fighter exploding after being sucked into the sand.
The thing that bugs me most about this scene is the distance between Finn backing up as it’s sinking compared to when it explodes. Also, what’s the point really? Isn’t having it completely sink underground enough?
Just finished watching the preliminary workprint, and I loved it! It promises a great cut of this film is on its way. Even for a work-in-progress with unfinished edits and some technical nitpicks, as a whole it is a pretty watchable movie with a lot of potential.
I’ve only followed this thread recently, so I don’t know if some these aspects have been discussed before. That being said, these are my first impressions:
That would be all I think. Looking forward for future versions of this edit!
Just wanted to chime in and ask what our thoughts have been on the feedback suggested so far, since the workprint was released?
“The Ziggy Edit” — A Conceptual Fanedit of Return of the Jedi
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-The-Ziggy-Edit/id/17844
Sorry I haven’t responded yet, but I’ve had to take my mind off the hook for a while regarding Star Wars in general and this edit in particular. After TROS, everything’s felt a bit surreal. It’s the sort of movie that I feel like pushes the ST into such a campy, turn-your-brain-off direction that any work these fanedits could do is practically meaningless. I suppose that there is still value in them as standalone projects, but those are the feelings I’ve been grappling with. In addition, the total sum of work I’ve put into Starlight has, for me, not been equal to the result. Many things about it are a mixed bag, as your excellent feedback has pointed out. Not that I am opposed to criticism, quite the opposite! But I know that a lot of work must still be done to make this the edit that you have all been hoping for, and I’m not sure that I’m up to the task. But let’s get to the specifics!
I’ve read all of the points but there are so many from quite a few people on the forum and in PM form that I should probably just go through the big issues at once:
BB-8’s scene after the interrogation - I’m still hoping to turn this into a more developed little scene. Otherwise I’d have to revert to the sequence of events in the original which is rather nonesensical.
Rey’s pre-interrogation dream - I’m on the fence about this. Maybe I can make it good enough to work, but on the other hand perhaps less is more here. There are a lot of dreams and visions going on with this edit, and this is the one that is least integral despite setting up the final scenes of the movie.
Rey’s final dream - Several people have mentioned that the TLJ clips are too out of place, and I’m inclined to agree. If the previous dream stays in, my intention is to remove the TLJ moments and simply rely on the iconography of the island. This will probably be enough to avoid whiplash with this new ending.
Starlight vs Restructured on Hosnian destruction - The consensus here seems to be that Restructured did this best, putting it right after Han’s death. Since I edited that sequence for Restructured, I will consider that a compliment 😉 But seriously, I’m actually leaning toward keeping the Starlight version, reason being that this version satisfies one of the goals of the edit - that of tightening the logic of the film - where Restructured bends the time logic even more with an extended death and destruction sequence with a cutaway to Leia before Chewie fires on Kylo. The original theatrical version took me out of the events with just the Leia cutaway, so Restructured is actually worse in this regard. Also, despite being a slightly more effective one-two gut punch, this requires the weapon to charge again and has a plot-jolting scene with Hux and Snoke to reset the tension. Hopefully I can get some new dialogue for the Hux countdown scene and re-include it. As for Leia’s cutaway, I think it might be good to cut down the Oscillator explosion even more to get more quickly to her reaction, and smooth the music where the cutaway originally happened.
Speaking of sound, that seemed to be the source of a lot of issues. I’ve already done some work in this regard post release, but your comments on sound issues are very helpful since I have trouble identifying all of them.
On a more positive note, I’m glad that people have responded so well to many of the changes such as the regradings and small tweaks throughout. The voices before Kylo kills Han started off as a weird little idea that few people remarked on at first, but seems to be a hit. I also haven’t heard anything about quite a few things I’ve put into the film or removed, and I’m curious if that’s because they’re not worth commenting on or whether they’re so seamless as to avoid detection. Probably the first, but I can always hope that in a few cases I’ve performed a magic trick 😃
So I know that this started out a bit pessimistic, but I’m glad people have overall enjoyed the work and want me to continue. And it will, maybe not right away but at some point when TROS has settled and we can get to work on that as well.
Thank you all so much! You are really the reason I enjoy doing this, after all 😃
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Nev, you’re one of my favorite people on these forums and I think you’re super talented. I hate how TROS deflated your enthusiasm a bit, but I totally understand. Take as much time away from Star Wars as you need to, either to move on to other things, or to come back with some fresh ideas. I don’t know how you come up with half the things you do, but I can only begin to imagine what ideas you could come up with for future endeavors.
I’ve felt pretty deflated after TROS as well and if it makes any fixing we do pointless, but honestly I’m regaining a bit of that optimism as time goes by. Once the DVD comes out and we can break down the movie and any deleted scenes we might get, it might give us a better idea on how far we can really push that film. You might not ever be interested in messing with it yourself but I hope you stick around to provide some insight!
Now regarding Starlight.
The BB-8 scene. If you can’t get that to work, I wonder if you could revisit the idea about giving a line to Kylo that could segue right into Finn “rescuing” Poe? Since Kylo’s “I leave that to you” line was removed, maybe Kylo could say something like, “Kill the pilot.” Then we cut directly to a Stormtrooper escorting Poe, presumably to his death, but then it turns out to be Finn.
If you can’t get Rey’s pre-interrogation dream to work, maybe you could use one shot of the island, maybe the one from the original island/desert mirage, then it just hard cuts to Rey waking up. Brief but simple.
EDIT: This might be weird, but what if you just dropped that original ReyDream idea into this moment as the dream sequence?
It cuts to black on Leia, then fades back in on the establishing shot of Rey’s AT-AT home. She’s having a dream that’s back on Jakku (where she wants to go). She’s sitting there wearing the pilot helmet when she starts seeing the island mirage, and then suddenly it hard cuts to Rey waking up in the interrogation. Maybe you could have some VO of Rey saying something like, “Waiting for my family. They’ll be back. One day.”
I do get what people are saying regarding the climax and the Hosnian restructuring. I really like how you’ve done it and I do think you should keep it that way. Back in December I actually showed my dad both versions, and I also think he responded more to the one-two punch of Han’s death and the Hosnian destruction. But I think out of many of the changes you’ve made throughout your edit, this is one I feel really deserves playing around with more.
Sorry I haven’t responded yet, but I’ve had to take my mind off the hook for a while regarding Star Wars in general and this edit in particular. After TROS, everything’s felt a bit surreal. It’s the sort of movie that I feel like pushes the ST into such a campy, turn-your-brain-off direction that any work these fanedits could do is practically meaningless. I suppose that there is still value in them as standalone projects, but those are the feelings I’ve been grappling with. In addition, the total sum of work I’ve put into Starlight has, for me, not been equal to the result. Many things about it are a mixed bag, as your excellent feedback has pointed out. Not that I am opposed to criticism, quite the opposite! But I know that a lot of work must still be done to make this the edit that you have all been hoping for, and I’m not sure that I’m up to the task.
Hey Nev,
I’d really like to have a larger discussion about The Rise of Skywalker and what your thoughts are, but it might not be appropriate for this thread (at least not until it has been tagged with including TROS spoilers). But how The Starlight Project fits into the sequel trilogy as a whole is something that I think is worth discussing.
You are not alone in your opinions about TROS. The truth is, the overarching handling of the ST was all over the place, in part, I think, because of divisiveness of The Last Jedi and the attempt to pull everything together in a single movie at the end. The result was a manic conclusion that is difficult to work out in conjunction with the other two films in the series.
The Force Awakens is such a good movie — my favorite of the ST — and I do believe that it should get the love it deserves. The work you’ve done on The Starlight Project has been nothing short of spectacular and makes the movie all the better.
So now what? Well, as someone that has truly adopted fanedits as being my go-to versions of various movies, I really think that the ST as a whole might have a saving chance depending on what people are able to do with fanediting these films. I don’t want to just “give up” because the theatrical version of TROS wasn’t what I wanted; rather, I actively thought to myself while watching it — “Oh, we could fix this in a fanedit,” etc.
What I think would help would be, after TROS is released on Blu-ray, taking some of the elements of that movie (esp. Rey’s lineage) and include it in bits and pieces into The Starlight Project. This could be in the form of flashbacks, or other little hits that are sprinkled in. I would like to see the same done in The Last Jedi.
Ultimately, I would like to spread out some of the craziness that is packed into TROS into the other two films of the ST to help give a more cohesive trilogy that anyone can enjoy and appreciate the story as a whole. The first place to start, I think, is with The Force Awakens, as it shares so much with The Rise of Skywalker.
It’s my hope that you’ll come back to this project, because I love the work you’ve done on it. But I can certainly understand if you need a break. But after TROS is released, I won’t lie: I’ll be itching to come up with new ideas to flesh out the trilogy as a whole, and I think a lot of that can be done with the work you’ve put into The Starlight Project. This has is my favorite fanedit of any I’ve watched, and I hope that we can continue to do more with it to improve the entire ST. I am confident that we can.
When you’re ready, let’s talk about how we can integrate some of the elements of TROS into The Starlight Project, because I think we can actually make it pretty cool and improve the sequel trilogy as a whole as result. I know you’ve mentioned some interest in fanediting The Last Jedi (which I would love to see someday), and being able to develop a ST that truly serves as a “definitive” version is one worth watching.
My dream is that, someday, I’ll no longer refer to the “ST” as “sequel trilogy,” but rather as the “Starlight Trilogy,” one cohesive overarching story that brings all of it together the way it should have been.
“The Ziggy Edit” — A Conceptual Fanedit of Return of the Jedi
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-The-Ziggy-Edit/id/17844
Could you send me the preliminary workprint?
Me too please! Stoked to see this!
Can I join the list to see the workprint? Many thanks!