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The Last Jedi: Rekindled (Released) — Page 10

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Sydonis,

I appreciate your passion, and I think you have a well articulated argument! However, I will try to explain why I don’t like the space Leia scene.

First, a quick sidenote: RogueLeader, I don’t believe that was me you discussed cropping the shots with. For me, it wasn’t so much about how it looked as much as it was about my suspension of disbelief.

Simply put, it’s more believable to me that she survives the bridge explosion than her using the force to fly through the vacuum of space. It’s similar to Poe’s survival of the hanger explosion. They both get knocked out of frame, and are left as the only survivors of a missile strike.

With space Leia, she does things my brain cannot accept anyone in this universe doing. The strongest force users still seem to have basic human vulnerabilities. Emperor Palpatine is thrown down an elevator shaft. Vader is electrocuted (force electrocuted, but it still seems like the same idea). Yoda is knocked unconscious (and electrocuted). The basic framework of the saga has told me that these people get wounded more or less the same way most humans would. They’re not super heroes.

With space Leia, she is frozen and floating away in the vacuum of space. She’s dead, she has to be. If it was Luke in her place, he would be dead too.

When she uses the force to push/pull herself back to the ship, it feels like a deus ex machine on the filmmakers part, using a new power to rescue a character that should be dead (and that we were made to think had died). It’s a filmmaking device that just doesn’t work for me.

That’s only my perspective, though, and I completely understand you counter-argument. I like your ideas, too, so I hope someone tries to cut the scene the way you, jarbear, and RogueLeader outlined!

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I have no problem with Leia using the Force to get back to the ship. It doesn’t require mastery of the Force, just a little nudge really, since moving in vacuum and zero-g doesn’t take a lot of force. Probably less Force is required than for pulling out a lightsaber from the snow for an untrained Luke. And being near death is the perfect occassion to manifest every last bit of your abilities - that’s true for every human.

Also, it is possible to survive in vacuum for a minute or so. See here: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/. Therefore this scene didn’t bother me at all upon my first viewing, and trust me, there were quite a few scenes that did.

Maybe the scene can be moved to immediately after the explosion to imply that she spends very little time in vacuum and cut out the bit where she is unconcious?

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That’s an interesting article, Dr. Krogshöj, thanks for posting!

Perhaps in the future my brain won’t reject scenes like this given the possibility, however it definitely felt like the filmmakers were trying to convince us that she had died, thereby making her force moment more dramatic. To me it’s an over-the-top way to demonstrate her power, and I’d prefer something more grounded (pun intended).

I respect that they hoped I would be in awe and excited to see Leia rescue herself, but every time I watch the scene I feel like they just sucked the stakes out of Star Wars. Obviously, most movies in this genre, including Star Wars movies, play fast and loose with the limits of their established realities, but this one was just a step too far for me.

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I’ve received a request for a smaller mp4 encode to get under the 4gb file size limits of fat32. I think it’s a good idea, so I may soon add a fourth option, but I wanted to ask here if there were any other preferences.

These are the specs I am thinking of:
-1gb or 2gb file size
-Mp4
(for those that have trouble with mkv)
-1280x720 or 854x480
(considering lowering resolution to keep the encoding quality higher)
-AAC Stereo audio
(thinking some might have trouble with AC-3 5.1)
-No captions or chapters
(not sure it can be muxed to mp4)

Would this be of interest to anyone else?

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Set your H264 encode to as slow as you can bear it, do a CRF value of about 22, 1280x720 (well, crop the letterboxing, so like 1280x544 or so), with AAC audio, and you can definitely get a decent ~2GB file. High profile 3.1 is fairly universally compatible.

Chapters can be kept, but can cause issues in an MP4 container, which is more widely compatible than MKV. And soft subs don’t work well in MP4.

That’s all from my own experience, YMMV.

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Dr. Krogshöj said:

I have no problem with Leia using the Force to get back to the ship. It doesn’t require mastery of the Force, just a little nudge really, since moving in vacuum and zero-g doesn’t take a lot of force. Probably less Force is required than for pulling out a lightsaber from the snow for an untrained Luke. And being near death is the perfect occassion to manifest every last bit of your abilities - that’s true for every human.

Also, it is possible to survive in vacuum for a minute or so. See here: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/. Therefore this scene didn’t bother me at all upon my first viewing, and trust me, there were quite a few scenes that did.

Maybe the scene can be moved to immediately after the explosion to imply that she spends very little time in vacuum and cut out the bit where she is unconcious?

This is how I felt when I saw the scene the first time. I’ve never understood the outrage over this scene. Not to mention we’ve all known Leia had the same power as Luke, she just hadn’t been trained to use it. It seems to me that you don’t have to be trained in using the force to use it. Look at Anakin as a kid, he most definitely used the force pod racing.

I see a lot of people think the scene looks awkward, but I’m not sure how else it should look when a person uses the force to fly through space. Imagine she doesn’t have the force but is holding a powerful magnet, it would look exactly the same way, minus the changes in speed of her flight.

Also, it’s a pretty common trope in movies and tv shows that when a character has a special power that hasn’t been tapped yet, it is generally awakened when that character or a friend or family member to that character is in mortal danger.

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Hello, here’s a few quick updates:

1. New Encodes

I’ve made a fresh set of encodes, including a new 2gb mp4 with stereo audio, 1280x536 video encoded at veryslow setting (ffmpeg). ChainsawAsh, thanks for the help on getting the best encoding quality at such a small size!

For this latest encode set, I also re-rendered a couple of FX shots where I noticed some minor issues, so if you want the latest, I would recommend grabbing these. This is all still really a V1, since no editorial changes have been made since initial release, and I’m just putting the date stamps on the file names. This new batch is “012319”.

2. No more Dropbox

Dropbox has proven to be a difficult place to host the files from. Some have had trouble downloading, and the uploads often stall on my end, despite a fast internet connection. It also makes it more difficult to have to upload everything twice, so I will stick with Google drive, which has proven to be more reliable.

3. Future Possible Edits

If I were to make a V2, one of the changes I would attempt is to remove Maz’s reference to a union dispute. I haven’t figured out how it would work convincingly, but I like the ideas presented by you all in earlier posts.

If there are any other changes/ suggestions, I’m always happy to hear them. I may disagree, but please feel free to chime in as this has always been a collaborative process! The conversation going about Space Leia has been very interesting, so even though I don’t want to change it, I appreciate the arguments presented.

Thank you!

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Would you possibly consider switching the opening scene “General Hugs” joke back to how it was in Hal’s version? I just compared the two and the prolonged “Hugs with an H? Skinny, pasty guy?” stuff still managed to get a little too cringey for my taste. Totally not as badly as in the theatrical version. But personally I liked Hal’s take more because we get the glimpse of the loading bar which already implies to us that Poe is stalling.

I wish editing was as simple as copy/paste so I could just blend the scene in myself. But I totally understand if you want to keep it the way it is. But yeah please, no need to touch Space Leia. Your version is fantastic at moment (in my opinion).

EDIT: Oopsies… I just read your explanation regarding the opening joke in the change list. I can respect us having quite different opinions on it, hehe. I just wish I had the know-how to blend in the more trimmed down version myself. 😃

EDIT 2: Wow! I also skipped through the Finn’s sacrifice sequence and it’s so perfect now. No Rose meddling, just him vs. The First Order. Awesome!

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bromeo said:

I wish editing was as simple as copy/paste so I could just blend the scene in myself. But I totally understand if you want to keep it the way it is. But yeah please, no need to touch Space Leia. Your version is fantastic at moment (in my opinion).

This might not be impossible using MKVToolNix - you’d have to remux each one and split it at an equivalent point just after the Hux convo, then use the "join* feature to cut in the first part of Hal’s with the rest of poppa’s.

I actually kind of agree with you, so I might experiment with trying this out when I have time and see if it works. If it does, I’ll provide detailed instructions.

Probably couldn’t play it on everything depending on the encoding settings of the two edits (which might preclude this from being doable at all without reencoding first at equivalent settings), but it should work on PC software players like MPC-HC.

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ChainsawAsh said:

I actually kind of agree with you, so I might experiment with trying this out when I have time and see if it works. If it does, I’ll provide detailed instructions.

Probably couldn’t play it on everything depending on the encoding settings of the two edits (which might preclude this from being doable at all without reencoding first at equivalent settings), but it should work on PC software players like MPC-HC.

Yeah, I’ve mostly been using MPC-HC with long-ass HDMI cables for my TV. Then after a while, I learned that Plex is a thing, haha.

…and I’m grateful for all the help. Thanks! 😃

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bromeo said:

Would you possibly consider switching the opening scene “General Hugs” joke back to how it was in Hal’s version? I just compared the two and the prolonged “Hugs with an H? Skinny, pasty guy?” stuff still managed to get a little too cringey for my taste. Totally not as badly as in the theatrical version. But personally I liked Hal’s take more because we get the glimpse of the loading bar which already implies to us that Poe is stalling.

I am aaaactually on the fence on this one. While I think my reason for doing something different makes sense, Hal’s edit is so smooth, and if that’s the way the film had been released initially I don’t think anyone would have thought it was anything other than more of Poe being a bad-ass. So, I’ll definitely consider it!

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poppasketti said:

I am aaaactually on the fence on this one. While I think my reason for doing something different makes sense, Hal’s edit is so smooth, and if that’s the way the film had been released initially I don’t think anyone would have thought it was anything other than more of Poe being a bad-ass. So, I’ll definitely consider it!

I’m an advocate for this as well! In my hypothetical hybrid cut involving yours and Hal’s, Hal’s version is the one I prefer. I also lean towards keeping Space Leia, but that’s been debated to the point of exhaustion so no need to say anything more on that matter! 🙂

Out of curiosity, will this edit be subject to change after Ep. IX comes out? For example, I ADORE your version of Finn’s sacrifice, but if Finn and Rose have any sort of romantic relationship in Ep. IX, somehow tagging on what Hal did which includes the kiss but gets rid of the cringey dialogue would help with keeping consistency between the films. Does that even make sense? Hah.

Same goes with Phasma - if she truly is dead in Ep. IX, doesn’t that make her death in XIII a little anticlimactic? This one’s not as big of a deal to me, but I thought I’d mention it! It might have even been brought up on here before.

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AbramPT said:

Out of curiosity, will this edit be subject to change after Ep. IX comes out? For example, I ADORE your version of Finn’s sacrifice, but if Finn and Rose have any sort of romantic relationship in Ep. IX, somehow tagging on what Hal did which includes the kiss but gets rid of the cringey dialogue would help with keeping consistency between the films. Does that even make sense? Hah.

IX will probably take place about 5 years after TLJ. There’s plenty of time for a relationship to develop in that time frame.

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I’ve been hearing one year, but even then I agree with Zach that a relationship could have just developed in between films. Even six months would be enough time to justify it. Also, doesn’t Poppa’s version keep Finn covering Rose on the Falcon? I think that alone hints that Finn might have feelings for her.

I think the bigger concern is if the “not fighting what we hate/saving what we love” will be a lesson Finn utilizes in IX. Though even then you could argue it is something he just comes to learn from Rose overtime, unless they directly refer to it I suppose.

In retrospect, I think the easiest way to solve the issue with that scene is to use darthrush’s idea (that Poppa built off of) and have it seem like Finn is about to get shot, but then Rose saves him from the oncoming laser and it continues as is. You wouldn’t be drastically altering what happens or any choices a character makes, but it makes it clearer that Finn was not going to stop the cannon. Because I think that is sort of the main reason people have a problem with the whole scene, because it wasn’t as clear as it could’ve been that Finn was not going to disable the cannon. So everything else Rose does, the line, the kiss, seems selfish and a “dumb”, as the stranger I sat next to in my second viewing called it, because not everyone felt Finn was going to 100% fail. But if an AT-AT shoots right at him, and we start thinking he is going to die for nothing, and Rose pushes him out of the way at the last minute, then it would be clearer that Finn was going to fail, and you wouldn’t be drastically changing what happened.

I think the solution Poppa has in Rekindled now, though, is really the best version for people who just didn’t like Rose’s speech and the kiss, regardless. If Poppa doesn’t like that moment, then I think he can stick with it as-is without having to worry about IX contradicting it. But if that line might be important in IX, then I think it might be something worth considering down the road. I think Poppa’s version is good, but it would be something I would like to see a future editor try out down the road.

AbramPT, I do see your point about Phasma too. For those who didn’t like Phasma, they probably won’t care and probably just be happy that she is gone. And if she does show up, then it still works because she could’ve just gotten extremely wounded by all the destruction in the hangar.

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RogueLeader said:

For those who didn’t like Phasma, they probably won’t care and probably just be happy that she is gone. And if she does show up, then it still works because she could’ve just gotten extremely wounded by all the destruction in the hangar.

If / when we see her again, I bet she will start with:

“FN-2187! I remember what you did to me in Episode VIII!” 😄

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AbramsPT, I would consider changes to be consistent with IX if they are necessary. I’m not sure they will be, but I do definitely want this version to work alongside the theatrical ST films (or edits like Hal’s).

Without the kiss and line about “saving what we love”, we could still see how their relationship has potential moving forward. Finn clearly cares for her by the end as he finds her on the battlefield and takes care of her aboard the Falcon. If they suddenly appear as a mushy couple in IX, then I suppose it would be odd and worth looking back at the edit. And if they specifically reference “saving what we love” (please no!), then I can see that being a problem. Simply speculating, I guess that could be better to deal with in an episode IX fanedit than adjusting TLJ.

As for phasma, to me, she’s a minor character who already had a little arc with Finn in TFA. The fact that her attempt at payback fails (thanks to Holdo) amidst the exploding ship is enough for me. It even feels a bit more realistic to me, as I don’t see why Finn or Phasma would be interested in another showdown before getting off the crumbling ship. It would be like Luke fighting storm-troopers in the DS2 hanger. Everyone there is in a panic, not really paying attention to who’s running where.

bromeo said:

If / when we see her again, I bet she will start with:

“FN-2187! I remember what you did to me in Episode VIII!” 😄

“Let this be our final battle!”

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Hey, that makes a lot of sense! Thanks for the reply. It’s true that the edit really does work as it is - I’m just an advocate for not leaving too much for the audience to have to assume. Lots of “stuff” happened between Ep. VI and Ep. VII that were only addressed in novels and comics, and that kinda sucks. Hopefully we don’t run into that issue when dealing with VII, VIII, and IX as a cohesive trilogy!

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Not a suggestion for V2, just an observation. I didn’t like the hangar scene in the theatrical cut. Before the explosion, they’re all at the same place, Phasma, Finn, Rose, the stormtroopers. After the explosion, Finn and Rose are at one place, and Phasma and her troopers are marching towards them in an orderly fashion from a completely different place. Poppasketti’s genius replacement solves that problem, gets rid of some ridiculous lines (“You’re a bug in the system!” “Let’s go, Chromedome!”) and a scene that is largely unneccessary for Finn’s character arc. In this version, he goes from telling DJ he’s wrong about war being just business to telling Rose they are going where they belong, fighting for the cause. (While, unbeknownst to him, being saved by Holdo’s sacrifice.)

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poppasketti said:

EddieDean said:

I’d also love a link!

PM sen

Hal 9000 said:

Congratulations! You deserve it. Glad you were able to get an edit you are happy with, since that’s the most important thing. 😃

Thanks so much, Hal! I appreciate all of your help and, of course, your fantastic work on the Legendary edit!

Could i please have a link tp the movie please

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Dr. Krogshöj, I appreciate your observation. It was strange to me as well that Phasma and her troops were marching in formation at the other end of the hanger. It looked cool, but otherwise didn’t seem logical.

Cutting it removed a lot of moments that bothered me in the theatrical version, including the BB-8 imperial walker material, which really kind of stunned of me when I first saw it. I like silly, but that was too much at an inappropriate time.

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I was thinking a little more about Phasma in the hangar today and was wondering if it would even be possible to change her to a completely different trooper altogether. I don’t know much about video editing, but if you could change Phasma’s armour to a gold or copper, you could get someone to record new lines and turn her into another high ranking trooper who still looks unique and badass. It may be a little awkward and out of nowhere, but it’s not like Phasma was ever utilized effectively either. It’s almost a trend in Star Wars to waste the coolest looking bad guys and could be a funny nod to that!

I’d be eager to send in recordings of new lines to you if you ever considered following through with this idea (I’m the person who did the new line in Hal’s TFA:R). For example, Phasma’s line when she captures Finn and the gang could be changed from “so good to have you back” to “I’ve heard a lot about you.” Also, they have a bright red trooper and gold trooper in the animated Resistance show, so having another unique colour wouldn’t be that ridiculous if you ask me.

The only difficulty (other than changing the armour colour) would be redubbing part of Hux’s “well done, Phasma.” Perhaps replacing it with a similarly mouth-shaped name. Or maybe that line could be removed completely! I’m not sure.

Then again, you may not be at all interested in making any more changes to that scene. Just had a moment of inspiration and wanted to throw it out there!

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AbramsPT,

That’s an interesting idea! I’m not sure it’s something I’d try, though.

You could change the color of the armor and dub new lines (although getting it perfect might take a long time), but you still have Gwendoline Christie’s stature and movement. I feel like we’d always be able to tell it’s Phasma.

And although I was happy to trim her to remove the fight scene with Finn, I like Christie and I’d rather not remove more of her performance than I have to.

Still, I’d love to see it tried and would be curious to see how effectively it could be done!

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Yeah, it might be too obviously Phasma still.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Gwendoline Christie - I suppose I just feel like as your edit stands, she’s been reduced to an unfulfilling cameo and she deserves more! Honestly, that goes for her role in both sequel movies as well and isn’t a jab at what you’ve done with Rekindled. I definitely understand wanting to keep as much of her as possible. Part of me just thinks I wouldn’t be so bothered by her lack of screen time if she wasn’t present at all! Haha.