I’d describe it as “willingly sacrifices himself to save his friends and preserve hope for the future,” but if you think he “just dies,” then okay.
Yes, that interpretation is widely accepted by people who understood what the movie was going for with that choice.
‘20th Century Fox logo’
Uh…
“Get over violence, madness and death? What else is there?”
Also known as Mr. Liquid Jungle.
symbolic point of the fight.
but… the point of the fight was to hold off the First Order. Whether Luke was actually physically there stalling them or “force-projecting” himself into a fake fight, the point of the fight remains the same either way.
In theatrical TLJ, it was never about stalling through a fight. Luke “won” the moment he stepped onto the battlefield.
The way I see it, Luke’s real goal was humiliating the First Order’s leadership. It’s because the idea, the spark of hope is always stronger than what’s really there.
So Luke walks up to an entire army and the supposed all-powerful leader, Kylo Ren, is unable to recognize he isn’t making any footsteps. Kylo then fails to realize Luke couldn’t possibly have the destroyed saber. This is because everyone is either scared/awed, or angry at their enemy. Luke basically insults them by giving them numerous outs: none of which they take.
Where does that leave us with? Well, to the average stormtrooper you just watched your supposedly invincible yet recently installed leader get played like a kid. The resistance escaped because Kylo was too busy playing with his emotions to think logically. Now you are questioning the First Order’s leadership and are in awe of the other Jedi, who could force project behind you at any minute for all you know. A good way to mess with morale, Master Skywalker.
Yes, that interpretation is widely accepted by people who understood what the movie was going for with that choice.
Sooo it’s “widely accepted” among the niche of people who “understood what the movie was going for with that”… makes sense… lol
I don’t know what you’re getting at. To be honest this discussion belongs in the Last Jedi spoilers thread.
I hope you feel better about yourself knowing you recked some people who liked a movie you didn’t. I’m pretty certain that that’s the widely accepted interpretation, but go on. Keep feeling special, they’re the wrong ones. You’ve earned it.
I don’t know what you’re getting at. To be honest this discussion belongs in the Last Jedi spoilers thread.
I hope you feel better about yourself knowing you recked some people who liked a movie you didn’t. I’m pretty certain that that’s the widely accepted interpretation, but go on. Keep feeling special, they’re the wrong ones. You’ve earned it.
If that’s what the movie was going for, the message is muddled at best. Luke shows up as a projection, using a projection of the saber he rejected at the beginning of the film. Furthermore, it doesn’t really emphasize his acceptance of the sword. I think it could have been powerful if he had a quiet moment of finally accepting his destiny and his father’s sword. But everything is just a projection, plus Rey and Ben destroyed the real sword.
I think that’s a fine interpretation, but if it was intended as such it’s kind of half-baked, like many things in this movie. That said, I would rather have the symbolism of his father’s sword than have it be replaced with his green saber for nit-picky fans who are overly-obsessed with Star Wars internal logic and continuity.
I think regardless of which lightsaber is used in the scene, having Luke appear as a force projection is more powerful, because it was the only way he could live up to his legend. He never could have faced down the entire First Order, as he said earlier, but he could outwit them with his cunning. This scene resonated very strongly for me (it’s actually one of my favorite scenes of the entire saga). The cinematography, music, and dialogue (“The rebellion is reborn today”) all reinforced Luke’s legendary status.
I am interested in seeing Ivan’s extended fight, but it’s more out of curiosity to see if he can pull it off. Storywise, however, it turns the scene into another boss battle. It’s also illogical, because Kylo-Ren decides to fight Luke by himself despite having his whole army behind him (assuming Ivan is cutting out all of the walkers firing at Luke).
Never heard of this fan theory of accepting the saber. I just chalked it up as a “gotcha” moment from Rian Johnson, in the fact that most viewers wouldn’t notice the obviousness of the blue saber even after it was destroyed which acted as a clue that he wasn’t really there.
JEDIT: Nevermind
Let’s keep heavy TLJ discussion in the proper thread.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-VIII-The-Last-Jedi-Discussion-SPOILER-THREAD/id/18125
Where were you in '77?
No offense guys, but you were the ones who were insulting him and berating him behind his back, I’ve just gone through this thread after the link was posted on a Star Wars Reddit (SaltierthanCrait) thread, he isn’t forcing anyone to give him money, or pay for the edit, if people want to give him money in appreciation for the work then that is their prerogative.
If he loved doing the work so much he wouldn’t be asking for people to pay him so he can do it full time. He wants to be paid a wage for doing it and pay others in the process. That goes against everything fan editing is about . And the quickest way for Disney to crack down on fan edits and shut them all down. He is profiting from material he doesn’t own the copyright to.
Despite being an avid supporter of this edit (if any edit will make this movie watchable for me, it will be this one or none), I do have to concede at this point that I fully agree with you Ady. If the patreon was so that he could quit his normal job to become a self sufficient film editor that then contracted out his editing work to studios and simply made free fanedits on the side, then this would be realising “his dream” while not making any profit from essentially marketing his fan edit.
Such is not the case though and from the start I have always felt uneasy about his motives behind starting the patreon, saying as much in an earlier youtube comment as well as another comment when I made him aware of the fact many people back here were not happy with the direction he was pursuing with the patreon and that he needed to be crystal clear that any money raised was all going straight back into the edit itself (like you do) and that the finished edit would be completely free to obtain. He did come to comment and eventually make a video that the edit would be freely available to anyone (not just patreon supporters) but the fact he is using the patreon funds to effectively take a wage from and pay others for their time is where it clearly crosses the line and I think for the sake of fan editing and this site, any remaining ties to Ivan should be completely and obviously cut (such as banning his account) apart from just general discussion of his interesting edits.
I am still extremely interested in the fan edit he is making of TLJ but after the time frame for it’s release seems to have gone from 2-3 months from the opening of this thread to I believe the end of this year, he is clearly milking it for all it is worth despite otherwise just coming off as a passionate Star Wars fan and generally good bloke, which is a shame.
Anyway time will tell how this all pans out, I just hope OT.com doesn’t get caught up in any potential fall out if the mouse ends up getting a hold of him (though I get the impression from him with him being in Mexico that he believes he can get away with it and is why he is so bold in throwing it in their faces).
Val
If you’ve followed the thread, it’s unlikely he would ever return to this forum.
Where were you in '77?
If you’ve followed the thread, it’s unlikely he would ever return to this forum.
I have and also re-read through it all again last night and I agree that he likely will never return. It’s more our apparent “response” to finding out he is making a profit from editing the movie that I thought may be important if faced with the mouse coming down hard on the matter. Banning his account and only leaving the thread open as a means of discussing his editing choices and methods I thought might be a prudent course to take. Of course that is for yourself, the other mods and Jay to decide.
Val
It would only serve the narrative that we’re the bad guys who oppose him at this point. I doubt Disney/Lucasfilm keeps track of banned members from Star Wars forums. They don’t even seem to check the social media of people they allow to podcast/blog from Celebration.
If they return we’ll deal with it then.
Where were you in '77?
It would only serve the narrative that we’re the bad guys who oppose him at this point. I doubt Disney/Lucasfilm keeps track of banned members from Star Wars forums. They don’t even seem to check the social media of people they allow to podcast/blog from Celebration.
If they return we’ll deal with it then.
Fair enough. I’ve seen threads simply discussing his edit on FE.org get locked so I just figured a similar response would occur on here as a means of clearly showing no support for such practices.
Back to discussing the edit itself and it’s apparent imminent completion, from what I understand he is just waiting on some finishing touches for the Luke and Kylo costumes after which they will be traveling to location to film the new lightsaber battle scene (which they can now do in one take at full speed) and then it simply needs integrating into the movie and final polishing done on the edit. Ivan then intends to release a 2nd and final trailer and straight after information on the website to where you can obtain the edit for free.
I just hope he can do some magic on those voiceovers because while it is a valiant effort and great idea in theory, the end result as far as the 1st trailer goes just doesn’t quite work.
All up though and shady stuff aside, it’s a very ambitious and radical edit and I think it will be an amazing achievement of fan editing if he can pull it off. Much like Adywan initially received some incredulous criticism and mockery when first stating what he was setting out to do with his Revisited edits only for them to become one of the gleaming examples of what is actually possible from a passionate fan editor, I believe Ivan also has the potential to break new ground and set another level of how fan editing can save what is IMHO an un-saveable movie.
Val
I feel like comparing Ivan to Adywan is disingenuous to say the least.
…
May the Force be with us.
I feel like comparing Ivan to Adywan is disingenuous to say the least.
How is what I said being disingenuous? I’m not saying Ivan is or will be the next Adywan, but that if he can pull off some of the really out there radical edit ideas that many people are sceptical of then it would be similar to how Ady initially had his own sceptics but in the end blew people away with what he was able to do and set new precedents for what people think is possible to do in a fan edit. I feel Ivan is likewise pushing and testing those boundaries and we get to decide whether what he does actually works or not.
Val
Don’t get all the hate for Ivan. All Youtubers use Patreon. I understand why some might consider it an ethical issue,but its out of our control. Drop it and get over it. He’s gonna be remembered as one of the greatest fan editors because of what he’s doing to TLJ.
I wouldn’t say it is hate, just frustration instead that he seems to be tossing all caution to the wind and doing something that is a fan editing 101 no-no which imperils the entire fan editing community. It all comes down to the reasons for collecting money from people and for what purpose. If it was just to support his channel so he could produce more content for his supporters or in the example scenario I posted about above regarding contracting out his professional work while making free edits on the side, then it wouldn’t be an issue.
But seeing that it is solely his editing of someone else’s copyright material which causes people to pay him money to continue doing that very same thing, he has generated a recurring income using that copyright material. It’s probably the next worst thing beside actually selling his edit for profit.
Whether his edit ends up being any good is also yet to be seen. His reasons for fixing narrative and character details through smart edits and use of better music is really promising on top of some great cuts and rearrangements of scenes and some very interesting ideas in restructuring the film to an extent to tell a much more compelling and Star Wars like story. But it’s not till we view the completed edit that we can tell whether it will all come together as a cohesive and well made edit or not.
Val
Don’t get all the hate for Ivan. All Youtubers use Patreon. I understand why some might consider it an ethical issue,but its out of our control. Drop it and get over it. He’s gonna be remembered as one of the greatest fan editors because of what he’s doing to TLJ.
Other youtubers are making money off of their own original content, not the intellectual property of a huge company with an army of lawyers. It’s an ethical issue that can ruin everybody’s day. And it violates the rules that this and other fanediting forums live by. CBS cracked down on Star Trek fan films for similar issues, and Disney easily could do the same to all of us. Why can’t you grasp that?
Where were you in '77?
Don’t get all the hate for Ivan. All Youtubers use Patreon. I understand why some might consider it an ethical issue,but its out of our control. Drop it and get over it. He’s gonna be remembered as one of the greatest fan editors because of what he’s doing to TLJ.
I don’t even think it’s the ethical issues that bother most people, but rather the implications it may have on the fanfilm/fanedit community as a whole.
Lucasfilm has been pretty relaxed with the fact that Star Wars fans are out there and distribiting their copyrighted material. And this site in particular has been very careful to play safe, by not linking directly to downloads, keeping online materials password protected and out of sight of the general public, and recommending that users legally purchase/own the source material, etc. Not many big franchises would allow the type of thing we do here to grow to this level. This was a big concern during the Disney acquisition. Many were worried that Disney would pull the plug on Lucasfilm’s history of leniency with communities like this.
Advertising his project the way he has, and asking for an income stream not just to fund the project but to make a living (even if it is just temporary) is exactly the kind of thing that could push Disney to police for these projects much more heavily and shut them down, putting the entire community at risk.
Don’t get all the hate for Ivan. All Youtubers use Patreon. I understand why some might consider it an ethical issue,but its out of our control. Drop it and get over it. He’s gonna be remembered as one of the greatest fan editors because of what he’s doing to TLJ.
Why the f**k should we “drop it and get over it”? His actions could have serious repercussions for every Star Wars fan edits & fan editors. We have seen what happened when Axanar decided to personally profit from a brand they had no rights to. Disney could see what he is doing and decide to clamp down on fan edits. This could put an end to a whole section of the fan editing community through the actions of one person. Years worth of work, down the drain. And, no, not all youtubers use Patreon. NO fan genuine fan editors monetise their videos on youtube, for one, and certainly not set up a Patreon to pay themselves a wage.
Don’t get all the hate for Ivan. All Youtubers use Patreon. I understand why some might consider it an ethical issue,but its out of our control. Drop it and get over it. He’s gonna be remembered as one of the greatest fan editors because of what he’s doing to TLJ.
Why the f**k should we “drop it and get over it”? His actions could have serious repercussions for every Star Wars fan edits & fan editors. We have seen what happened when Axanar decided to personally profit from a brand they had no rights to. Disney could see what he is doing and decide to clamp down on fan edits. This could put an end to a whole section of the fan editing community through the actions of one person. Years worth of work, down the drain. And, no, not all youtubers use Patreon. NO fan genuine fan editors monetise their videos on youtube, for one, and certainly not set up a Patreon to pay themselves a wage.
Agreed, it’s also just plain scummy.
Don’t get all the hate for Ivan. All Youtubers use Patreon. I understand why some might consider it an ethical issue,but its out of our control. Drop it and get over it. He’s gonna be remembered as one of the greatest fan editors because of what he’s doing to TLJ.
Why the f**k should we “drop it and get over it”? His actions could have serious repercussions for every Star Wars fan edits & fan editors. We have seen what happened when Axanar decided to personally profit from a brand they had no rights to. Disney could see what he is doing and decide to clamp down on fan edits. This could put an end to a whole section of the fan editing community through the actions of one person. Years worth of work, down the drain. And, no, not all youtubers use Patreon. NO fan genuine fan editors monetise their videos on youtube, for one, and certainly not set up a Patreon to pay themselves a wage.
Man really said it the way it is, fan films and fanedits should be inspired by the merritt of creativity and should be made without any question of legality, the rules set up by this community have been put in place for ethical and legal reasons, we should NOT be paying people to fuck with disney and further fuck with the fanedit community by risking everything we have built on this page for over a decade. Projects such as these are hobbyist projects, not jobs. It is possible that good hobby work done here could land skilled members new jobs in the industry, but there is nothing correct about breaking the core rules and forcing yourself into a career based on dishonesty and ignorance of the law and history of projects such as these, I’m so done with seeing this shit man. Ivan had some pretty cool creative ideas, and that’s it, at the first sign of criticism he turned to his small gang of worshippers that he calls “fans” and shit talked the entire website like a middle-school girl, pathetic. The ONLY time money should be involved in fan projects is when they invest their OWN hard earnings into their OWN resources to complete the tasks at hand, that’s an unfortunate reality that must be grasped by everyone who invests their time into shit like this. I’m quite pissed that I was one of the first viewers of Ivan’s channel and that I linked him to this site pretty early on as an opportunity to better his own project and to welcome a useful new creative and productive member to the forum to have this ignorant drama arise based on pure greed. Don’t watch Ivan’s edit, don’t leave a good review, or a bad review in the comments, don’t buy his merch, don’t pay him, this guy is bad news.
Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329