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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 34

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“Or have you always known? And you’ve just hidden it away. You know the truth.”

It’s perfectly reasonable to think that he has convinced her, and so she’s convinced herself. It doesn’t mean she’s right either.

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 (Edited)

He hasn’t even met her before she’s realized the truth of her parentage.

‘Dear child, you already know the truth. Whomever you’re waiting for on Jakku…they’re never coming back. The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead.’

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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The most desolate hole in the galaxy being very important would be ironic and funny.

I that’s cancelled out by how many times we’ve gone back to Tatooine by now.

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Why would something she’s come to terms with become a flaw? If anything, it would eliminate a flaw.

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NeverarGreat said:

He hasn’t even met her before she’s realized the truth of her parentage.

‘Dear child, you already know the truth. Whomever you’re waiting for on Jakku…they’re never coming back. The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead.’

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Of course you cut out an important part of that dialogue

Maz: “They’re never coming back. But there’s someone who still could.”
Rey: “Luke”

As Kylo notes in TLJ
“You can’t stop needing them. It’s your greatest weakness. Looking for them everywhere - in Han Solo, now in Skywalker.”

Her flaw is not the mystery, nor simply coming to terms with the fact that they’re never coming back. It’s relying on them or someone else in that role to guide her. The fact that they’re nobody isn’t devastating to her because it means she’ll never see them again, it’s because it means she doesn’t have an easily understood preordained story to follow (like being a Skywalker would), she has to figure one out for herself.

I’m with Tobar here.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

The most desolate hole in the galaxy being very important would be ironic and funny.

I that’s cancelled out by how many times we’ve gone back to Tatooine by now.

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Why would something she’s come to terms with become a flaw? If anything, it would eliminate a flaw.

But we know from Luke that Jakku is worse than Tatooine. 😉

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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NeverarGreat said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Why would something she’s come to terms with become a flaw? If anything, it would eliminate a flaw.

Ric Olié was a human male starship pilot who served in the Royal Naboo Security Forces. He was the commander of the Naboo Royal Space Fighter Corps, and the leader of Bravo Flight. Olié's talents also landed him the job of the Queen's personal pilot, often flying the Naboo Royal Starship in the service of Padmé Amidala. Due to Naboo's pacifistic nature, Olié's skills were rarely in use, although he saw military action during the Invasion of Naboo.

I take it the remark I was responding to was sarcastic.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

NeverarGreat said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Why would something she’s come to terms with become a flaw? If anything, it would eliminate a flaw.

Ric Olié was a human male starship pilot who served in the Royal Naboo Security Forces. He was the commander of the Naboo Royal Space Fighter Corps, and the leader of Bravo Flight. Olié's talents also landed him the job of the Queen's personal pilot, often flying the Naboo Royal Starship in the service of Padmé Amidala. Due to Naboo's pacifistic nature, Olié's skills were rarely in use, although he saw military action during the Invasion of Naboo.

I take it the remark I was responding to was sarcastic.

Yes.

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

He hasn’t even met her before she’s realized the truth of her parentage.

‘Dear child, you already know the truth. Whomever you’re waiting for on Jakku…they’re never coming back. The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead.’

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Of course you cut out an important part of that dialogue

Maz: “They’re never coming back. But there’s someone who still could.”
Rey: “Luke”

Actually forgot that part, but it doesn’t really change the point.

As Kylo notes in TLJ
“You can’t stop needing them. It’s your greatest weakness. Looking for them everywhere - in Han Solo, now in Skywalker.”

Her flaw is not the mystery, nor simply coming to terms with the fact that they’re never coming back. It’s relying on them or someone else in that role to guide her. The fact that they’re nobody isn’t devastating to her because it means she’ll never see them again, it’s because it means she doesn’t have an easily understood preordained story to follow (like being a Skywalker would), she has to figure one out for herself.

I don’t think Rey waited her whole life for her parents to return simply so they could reveal ‘her place in all this’, but because she wanted a family.

Wanting a family with whom to belong isn’t a weakness, it’s a strength. Of course it’s typical Kylo to make that mistake, but it shows the limitation of using his reasoning on Rey’s character flaws. Rey might have gone to Luke’s island ostensibly for the Resistance and for his guidance, but her real reason was to find a genuine belonging that she has lacked her entire life. If Luke had been that kind, fatherly figure that she imagined, she wouldn’t have gone to Kylo as a last resort, to find some sort of decency that even Luke couldn’t muster for her.

When Kylo instead dives further into nihilistic abandon, telling Rey that what she’s searching for is a preordained place in the story, it’s his warped interpretation of her journey. He’s trying to give her what she wants, to the best of his understanding. But she doesn’t care about all that, not really.

So if Kylo was lying and her parents really were super secret Jedi or Skywalkers or Kenobis or Palpatine’s granddaughter, it wouldn’t make any difference to her. The fact that they never came back is all the evidence she needed in TFA that they didn’t care, and that she’d need to move on. This scene needed to directly threaten Rey’s journey, but it is a big swing and a miss, in terms of challenging her.

When Vader was revealed to be Luke’s father, it struck at the heart of Luke’s journey to be a Jedi. He wanted to be a Jedi like his father, and he never dreamed that his father could be anything but good. It was a revelation engineered for the audience to be sure, but more importantly it was put in place to directly challenge Luke.

When Kylo reveals that Rey’s parents are nobodies, it is no revelation except maybe to the conspiracy-minded audience members. Rey already knows it, and more importantly has known since TFA that they’re never coming back. If Kylo had made some argument to Rey that Luke, Finn, Leia all cared about Rey because of her powers and that he alone cared about her as a person, that might have struck closer to her core journey. But instead Kylo clearly only cares about her for her power, whereas Finn cares about her regardless. It’s a simple choice for her to reject that sort of temptation, and she does so even before the end of the movie.

It was a scene by, for, and to the audience, not Rey.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

He hasn’t even met her before she’s realized the truth of her parentage.

‘Dear child, you already know the truth. Whomever you’re waiting for on Jakku…they’re never coming back. The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead.’

So glad that this minor mystery that she, by her actions, made peace with in TFA is now her central character flaw.

Of course you cut out an important part of that dialogue

Maz: “They’re never coming back. But there’s someone who still could.”
Rey: “Luke”

Actually forgot that part, but it doesn’t really change the point.

It’s relevant insofar as it sets up that Rey has transferred her search for a parental figure from her actual parents to Luke (as Kylo points out).

As Kylo notes in TLJ
“You can’t stop needing them. It’s your greatest weakness. Looking for them everywhere - in Han Solo, now in Skywalker.”

Her flaw is not the mystery, nor simply coming to terms with the fact that they’re never coming back. It’s relying on them or someone else in that role to guide her. The fact that they’re nobody isn’t devastating to her because it means she’ll never see them again, it’s because it means she doesn’t have an easily understood preordained story to follow (like being a Skywalker would), she has to figure one out for herself.

I don’t think Rey waited her whole life for her parents to return simply so they could reveal ‘her place in all this’, but because she wanted a family.

Wanting a family with whom to belong isn’t a weakness, it’s a strength. Of course it’s typical Kylo to make that mistake, but it shows the limitation of using his reasoning on Rey’s character flaws. Rey might have gone to Luke’s island ostensibly for the Resistance and for his guidance, but her real reason was to find a genuine belonging that she has lacked her entire life. If Luke had been that kind, fatherly figure that she imagined, she wouldn’t have gone to Kylo as a last resort, to find some sort of decency that even Luke couldn’t muster for her.

Searching for belonging and a “place in all this” are two separate things. As I said in my post (perhaps not worded properly), “Her flaw is not [about] coming to terms with the fact that they’re never coming back.” The reasons she’s fixated on them in TFA and TLJ are different. In TFA she wants a family, and she finds one in the Resistance. In TLJ, after the Force has awakened in her, she’s wants to understand herself as a person with a purpose in the galaxy. She explicitly states as much when Luke asks her why she’s there. The idea of “searching for belonging” still exists in TLJ, but it’s on a more subconscious level for her (she thinks she’s overcome it but perhaps she hasn’t fully, which is understandable).

When Kylo instead dives further into nihilistic abandon, telling Rey that what she’s searching for is a preordained place in the story, it’s his warped interpretation of her journey. He’s trying to give her what she wants, to the best of his understanding. But she doesn’t care about all that, not really.

So if Kylo was lying and her parents really were super secret Jedi or Skywalkers or Kenobis or Palpatine’s granddaughter, it wouldn’t make any difference to her. The fact that they never came back is all the evidence she needed in TFA that they didn’t care, and that she’d need to move on. This scene needed to directly threaten Rey’s journey, but it is a big swing and a miss, in terms of challenging her.

When Vader was revealed to be Luke’s father, it struck at the heart of Luke’s journey to be a Jedi. He wanted to be a Jedi like his father, and he never dreamed that his father could be anything but good. It was a revelation engineered for the audience to be sure, but more importantly it was put in place to directly challenge Luke.

When Kylo reveals that Rey’s parents are nobodies, it is no revelation except maybe to the conspiracy-minded audience members. Rey already knows it, and more importantly has known since TFA that they’re never coming back. If Kylo had made some argument to Rey that Luke, Finn, Leia all cared about Rey because of her powers and that he alone cared about her as a person, that might have struck closer to her core journey. But instead Kylo clearly only cares about her for her power, whereas Finn cares about her regardless. It’s a simple choice for her to reject that sort of temptation, and she does so even before the end of the movie.

It was a scene by, for, and to the audience, not Rey.

As most fan theories would prove, there’s any number of reasons why Rey’s family might not have come back.

The scene’s possibly a revelation only for the audience, sure (debatable in terms of the stuff about them being dead, hard to say for sure where that’s coming from), but that doesn’t mean it holds no weight for Rey. It’s her admitting some hard truths that she’s seemingly repressed or lied to herself about for awhile. When the last time you saw your parents was when you’re ten, it’s probably pretty easy to think there’s potential for them to be someone far beyond what you knew them as.

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I agree with almost everything Dom has ever said on this forum. This conversation isn’t an exception.

JEDIT: forgot a word oops

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snooker said:

I agree with almost everything Dom has ever said on this forum. This conversation isn’t an exception.

JEDIT: forgot a word oops

I disagree.

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Carrie fisher will be in episode ix. Apparently Abrams is using some unreleased footage of her from TFA. Thoughts?

Ah 77, my favourite year even if i wasn’t alive

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That’s been common knowledge for several months now.

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Where were you in '77?

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I saw a thread on another forum yesterday suggesting that maybe they’ll use the scrapped warhammer subplot from TFA to integrate Leia. It wasn’t a leak or rumor, just conjecture, but it makes sense.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I saw a thread on another forum yesterday suggesting that maybe they’ll use the scrapped warhammer subplot from TFA to integrate Leia. It wasn’t a leak or rumor, just conjecture, but it makes sense.

That would imply that they filmed any of that material, which I seriously doubt ever got out of early script stage, if it even got that far.

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Is there anyone here who thinks that Rey and Kylo Ren will have a romantic relationship? I used to dismiss this story direction after The Force Awakens came out, but The Last Jedi actually won me over to being a fan of the direction. To me, I think this makes so much sense. Just ignore the majority of content online called, “Reylo.”

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

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Nah

“Get over violence, madness and death? What else is there?”

Also known as Mr. Liquid Jungle.

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I say that they should reveal the sequels and anything else Disney to be a nightmare Luke had after ROTJ

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LordZerome1080 said:

I say that they should reveal the sequels and anything else Disney to be a nightmare Luke had after ROTJ

I love the sequel trilogy. Why is there so much hate for it!? Did everyone forget about the prequels!?

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

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nl0428 said:

LordZerome1080 said:

I say that they should reveal the sequels and anything else Disney to be a nightmare Luke had after ROTJ

I love the sequel trilogy. Why is there so much hate for it!? Did everyone forget about the prequels!?

Please get off Ryan’s cock. TLJ sucks ass!! At least the prequels had some watchability

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LordZerome1080 said:

nl0428 said:

LordZerome1080 said:

I say that they should reveal the sequels and anything else Disney to be a nightmare Luke had after ROTJ

I love the sequel trilogy. Why is there so much hate for it!? Did everyone forget about the prequels!?

Please get off Ryan’s cock. TLJ sucks ass!! At least the prequels had some watchability

Be nice, or be dog food.

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Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

LordZerome1080 said:

nl0428 said:

LordZerome1080 said:

I say that they should reveal the sequels and anything else Disney to be a nightmare Luke had after ROTJ

I love the sequel trilogy. Why is there so much hate for it!? Did everyone forget about the prequels!?

Please get off Ryan’s cock. TLJ sucks ass!! At least the prequels had some watchability

Be nice, or be dog food.

Thank you very much for standing up for me, but I think it is best that you do not give any toxic bullies in the fanbase any notification and recognition by not responding to them. You are just giving them justification by doing so. I just wish the toxicity in the Star Wars fanbase will stop. It’s awful.

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.