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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 294

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Oh my goodness I love that revoked! I feel like a total idiot but I never connected that this room and the room from EP 4 were the same until I saw the lights switched on!

Such a good idea!

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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Fantastic work as always Snooker!

“Get over violence, madness and death? What else is there?”

Also known as Mr. Liquid Jungle.

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snooker said:

I don’t like that tone of yours, Anakin.

I don’t like it either.

DZ-330 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

I can’t be bothered to check what it looked like in ANH, because I know that regardless, I dislike this recolor. I guess I’m on my own as someone who’s willing to edit the OT to fit PT under certain circumstances.

Eagerly waiting for some screenshots!

Don’t expect to see anything anytime soon, although I can send you my change list if you want.

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Did Adywan ever mention what his plans were for the Prequel Trilogy?

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He has touched on little things, and doubleofive had listed some things he said about them over the years on the Revisited blog. I think they mentioned he was eventually going to talk about his ideas for the prequels, but I don’t think he has yet.

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You probably already know this but in the small chance you don’t, he’s not going to do the prequels anymore.

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

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I know, but he or someone said he would reveal what his plans were.

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I do know he had some pretty big ideas. He was planning to work at them all simultaneously in case certain elements were carried over into the other films. General color correction. Fixing lightsabers. He spoke about voice dubbing. C-3PO wouldn’t appear until ROTS.

He mentioned before that he wanted to change it to where the Vader reveal would be saved until ESB, so it definitely would’ve required radical changes. Padme also would’ve survived ROTS, so that probably would’ve been something similar to what Hal did.

Here was one of his biggest quotes regarding that:

2008-12-05, ESBR Thread:
“When i first planned on doing the saga i wanted to bring the saga together as a whole and not have the PT >ruin many of the surprises in the OT, namely Leia being Lukes sister and Vader being Lukes father. I want >them to be able to be watched in chronological order. So in ROTS you will not have Anakin named as Vader or >even see him don the costume. The last we see of Anakin is being led away in the life support chamber after it >leaves the shuttle. Leia will not be named either. Palpatine has Maul, Dooku & Grievous in the PT, so when we >see Vader in ANH we will just think that he’s just another henchman. We will hear mention of Vader in ROTS but >not connected to Anakin. And also the problem with Leia remembering her real mother but Padme dies in ROTS >will be fixed in the PT, so no changes are needed in ROTJ.
“There will be probably more work done on the PT than in the Revisited OT. I have so many ideas for the PT but >a lot of new FX need to be done to achieve this. I’m hoping that a new version of TPM is released before i get >to that movie with the new CG Yoda because the abomination that is the PT puppet Yoda just cannot exist in my >edit. I’m even thinking of building my own mechanical puppet Yoda to replace the one in that movie.”

But as you can see from the date, a lot of what he said was from 10 years ago, and I’m sure Ady had come up with new ideas and changed old thoughts since then. But you can tell he really wanted to change the Prequels to remain consistent with the OT. Obviously don’t blame him for not wanting to do it. He’s already put so much time into the OT: Revisited, and the amount of work his Prequels would need probably would be even more than what he has done with the OT. But he has inspired a lot of the people in the fan-editing community, so maybe others can take his ideas and run with them.

I’m curious about which characters he was planning to dub. I’ve always felt like dubbing is really difficult to pull off seamlessly.

While I think the most interesting thing would be to hear his ideas on improving characters/plot, I’m also curious if he had any ideas for aesthetic/music changes. Also, for some reason I thought I remembered reading somewhere the possibility of him adding characters. So yeah, definitely a lot of VFX work in general. But like I said, I imagine his plan was pretty dynamic when thinking about it after a decade.

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Heir to the Empire described Coruscant as having mountain ranges, greenery and other aspects of nature in addition to the massive city. I’m wondering if this depiction could be edited in to the prequels.

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Anyone good with CG animation could probably just replace the space shots, and it doesn’t conflict with that. Maybe add some shots of greenery some places in the prequels (maybe the shot of the Star Destroyer when Obi-Wan leaves to find Grievous), and done.

Reading R + L ≠ J theories

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While this isn’t a major
radical idea, I haven’t seen this idea mentioned before, but maybe it has.

I think most people would agree that one of the weaker aspects of Revenge of the Sith is how Padmé does not really have much to do in that film. Luckily it has become commonplace for ROTS edits to reinsert most, if not all, of her deleted scenes. While this does give her more to do, really what she does doesn’t have much an influence on the overall story. It’s more of a sideplot, and it really doesn’t go anywhere.

While the scenes technically show us the beginnings of the Rebellion, it’s not really the Rebellion, but more about the Petition of the 2000.

Basically, I’m wondering if the subplot could be restructured to give Padmé a more fundamental role in the founding of the Alliance.

I’m curious about the possibility of slightly reordering the appearance of these deleted scenes in a convincing way. Instead of being last, the first deleted scene we see could be when Padmé meets with Palpatine about the Petition of 2000. Palpatine “reassures” them that he’ll do the right thing. This versions would cut the reference to the regional governors, and just refer to more constitutional amendments in general.

The next deleted scene would be when the senators discuss Palpatine appointing Regional Governors across the Republic. With this restructure, the senators are now clearly upset that Palpatine is still abusing his power despite their wishes. Now, the “organization” that Bail alludes to more clearly appears to be referring to what eventually will be the Rebellion. They are taking the next step in order to preserve the Republic. I do think this scene could be trimmed too, like Padmé being defensive of Palpatine, since she would have already seen that Palpatine can’t be trusted.

Now, while not totally necessary, and I still don’t know for sure where the last scene could be placed best, but adding the scene where Padmé requests involving a Jedi she trusts could help tie her plot into the main crux of the story.

Since she never refers to the Jedi she trusts by name, it leaves room for doubt in the audience. Of course we’d assume this is Anakin, but has his close position with Palpatine affected this?
It would be nice if this scene could take place before Anakin visits Padmé, when he asks if Obi-Wan has been there to see her. Anakin senses that he had been there, and now the audience is wondering if Obi-Wan is the Jedi she was referring to earlier. It is not made clear, so we would begin doubt Padmé’s honesty, just like Anakin probably is.

If Padmé did speak to a Jedi about the proto-Alliance, it would not only help add to why Bail immediately goes out searching for Yoda and Obi-Wan after Order 66, but it makes Anakin’s paranoia regarding the Jedi, the Senate, and especially the two people he is closest to, Obi-Wan and Padmé, more understandable. It could add to Anakin’s suspicions regarding Padmé, so him lashing out at her on Mustafar would be a more predicatable reaction.

All the scenes would require slight trims to have the restructure not be contradicted by each other, removing references regarding the Petition of 2000, regional governors in the first scene, cutting Bail saying not to get the Jedi involved just yet, etc.

It also could add to the tragedy of ROTS, because in a way Palpatine isn’t wrong about the seeds of doubt he plants in Anakin. Even though they have good intentions, the Jedi and a group of Senators are really making plans against the Chancellor. For obvious reasons, but Palpatine is still technically right. He made them react exactly the way he wanted them to.

With this restructure, we now could see Padmé take a more active role in the narrative. Also, since Padmé makes active decisions in the last two films, returning to liberate Naboo on her own and going to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan, this could fit more into her previously established character.

My biggest problem at the moment though is figuring out where to place these scenes.

If generally sticking with the theatrical format, I think the Palpatine/Padmé scene would need to go in between Obi-Wan asking Anakin to spy on the chancellor and Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace’s gunship conversation. I think this scene could replace the Anakin and Padmé couch conversation “You’re sounding like a separatist!”

The scene where Bail discusses this secret “organization” would need to go after the gunship scene. And the third scene, where Padmé requests that they involve a Jedi she trusts, would probably need to go inbetween the first Kashyyyk scene and the scene where Anakin says goodbye to Obi-Wan.

It would be pretty tight, but I think it could work. And I like how other edits reorder certain scenes, like rearranging the opera scene, but o haven’t figured out such a restructure would fit other edits. And like I said before, one could at least swap the Palpatine/Padmé meeting and Bail’s “organization” deleted scenes to imply that Padmé is a founding member of the early Rebellion.

While just swapping those two deleted scenes would add more to Padmé’s story and tie her legacy into the next films, I think adding the other deleted scene in this way also does a lot to add to Anakin’s growing doubts regarding the people he’s closest to, and how he would feel like Palpatine is the only person he can turn to.

Anyway, just a thought I’ve had for awhile. Not sure if it would work but maybe it is something that could be explored. If you guys have any ideas about scene order or anything else, please share them.

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Thanks! Like I said, it would be a tight fit, but Padmé is one of the big three of the prequels, so I feel like it would be nice to give her a more active role in the film if it’s possible.

And you would have to trim a few lines from each scene for it to make sense, so it would shorten them but maybe it would help maintain a brisk pace?

The most important thing is that they’re positioned appropriately for it to make sense. At the moment that positioning is the only one I can think of that would work, but maybe there are other options.

And as I mentioned, just putting the Padmé/Palpatine scene first and the “Seeds of the Rebellion” scene second would help set up Padmé as a founder of the Alliance, but adding the final scene could help link Bail with the Jedi and create more doubt and tension between Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padmé. Could be interesting.

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i like the idea too, but i like the “you’re sounding like a separatist!” scene, so i’m not sure if that’d be one to be cut.

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Thanks! I don’t think it would have to be cut, necessarily. I just figured that that scene served a similar purpose, so it could be replaced if everything couldn’t fit.

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RogueLeader said:

Thanks! I don’t think it would have to be cut, necessarily. I just figured that that scene served a similar purpose, so it could be replaced if everything couldn’t fit.

I would think it would be a scene you’d want to make sure you don’t cut, as it feels to me like the only part of the theatrical film that links to those deleted scenes.

I’d think, with your idea, you’d want to place the Palpatine deleted scene after the “sounding like a separatist” scene. Anakin says that he’s not the one to talk to about this, so she goes a different way. Then later it might help your implication that the Jedi she’s referring to is Obi-Wan, if we know that she’s already been rebuffed by Anakin.

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Ah, I see what you’re saying. That’s a good point. Though I don’t think it has to be before the Palpatine deleted scene, does it? Basically, once the Petition of 2000 fails to make a difference with Palpatine, that’s when the Senators take it a step further. They agree to keep it a secret, but Padmé does try to talk to Anakin about it but he deflects the topic. So, the next time we see Padmé she suggests talking to a Jedi she trusts, which makes us think she isn’t talking about Anakin. And then basically you would end that scene not with Bail saying no, and just leaving the possibility she will in the air.

I’ve laid out the scene orders for both the theatrical and Hal’s restructured version, and then I’ve laid out two optional structures with the Padmé scenes rearranged.

Theatrical
Pregnant
Grievous
Balcony
Nightmare
Yoda’s Advice
Briefing
Anakin’s Appointment
You’re on this council…
Spy on Chancellor
Gunship conversation
Sound like a sep
Opera
Kashyyyk/Utupau discovery
Goodbye old friend
Second dream, visiting Padmé
Obi-Wan arrives

Hal’s Edit
I’m Pregnant
Briefing
Palpatine Appoints Anakin
Jedi discuss
On this council
First Padmé scene
Spy on Chancellor
A prophecy misread
Sound like a sep
Grievous makes a call
Anakin’s nightmare (doesn’t tell padme)
Opera
Kashyyyk
Second Padmé scene
Goodbye old friend
Third Padmé scene
Obi-Wan on Utupau

Option #1
I’m Pregnant
Balcony
Grievous
Nightmare
Briefing
Palpatine appoints Anakin
Yoda, Mace & Obi meeting
Not a Master
Spy on Chancellor
Third Padmé deleted scene
Gunship conversation
First Padmé deleted scene
(Possibly “Sounding like a sep”)
Opera
Second Padmé deleted scene
Kashyyyk
Goodbye old friend
Anakin visits Padme “Obi-Wan’s been here?”
Obi arrives at Utupau

Option #2
I’m Pregnant
Briefing
Palpatine Appoints Anakin
Jedi discuss
On this council
Spy on Chancellor
Third Padmé scene
Gunship conversation
First Padmé scene
Grievous makes a call
Anakin’s nightmare
Opera
Second Padmé scene
Kashyyyk
Goodbye old friend
Was Obi-Wan here?
Obi-Wan on Utupau

I think if you were to to try to put it in your ROTS, hypothetically, Dom, you could just swap the first deleted scene with third, the second with the first, and then put the second deleted scene inbetween “You’re sounding like a seperatist” and the Kashyyyk scene, with maybe some type of Coruscant establishing shot to create a buffer between those two Coruscant scenes to maybe imply time has passed and it’s the next day.

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RogueLeader said:

Ah, I see what you’re saying. That’s a good point. Though I don’t think it has to be before the Palpatine deleted scene, does it?

You don’t have to, but it might be odd for Anakin to see Padme openly confront the chancellor, then be surprised after to hear her air grievances with him in private (though of course what is discussed in the scenes aren’t exactly the same).

I think if you were to to try to put it in your ROTS, hypothetically, Dom, you could just swap the first deleted scene with third, the second with the first, and then put the second deleted scene inbetween “You’re sounding like a seperatist” and the Kashyyyk scene, with maybe some type of Coruscant establishing shot to create a buffer between those two Coruscant scenes to maybe imply time has passed and it’s the next day.

It’d be a little complicated with my edit, especially as I’ve excised the second scene entirely. The other thing I’m weary about is that section of the film feeling to jumpy from scene to scene with little connective tissue between them. This is a problem with the theatrical ROTS, and honestly most fan edits have only made this aspect worse (in my opinion, though of course I think they’ve on the whole improved the film). I’ve put a lot of thought into how I’ve structured that section, and while the way I have it now is by no means set in stone, I’d definitely have to do some real thinking on this possibility before chancing an implementation. I do really like where your head’s at on this idea, though.

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Thanks! And I totally understand what you’re saying. I don’t think it could work for every edit, but I think it might work for some. I’ll have to try to put it together sometime and see if it could work at all.

And you’re right, I didn’t realize just how many scenes there were in this part of the movie until now. Honestly I think it is sort of a side effect of George waiting to tell the bulk of the story until the third movie in the trilogy.

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RogueLeader said:

Thanks! And I totally understand what you’re saying. I don’t think it could work for every edit, but I think it might work for some. I’ll have to try to put it together sometime and see if it could work at all.

And you’re right, I didn’t realize just how many scenes there were in this part of the movie until now. Honestly I think it is sort of a side effect of George waiting to tell the bulk of the story until the third movie in the trilogy.

It’s honestly the section where 80% of the film’s problems lie. The rest of the movie is pay off for stuff that should have but didn’t occur in that section, which you’re definitely right is partly because of the last minute cram nature of the trilogy.

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Apparently early on, Padme was gonna have a knife in hand when she hugs Anakin on Mustafar, intending to kill him but not being able to bring herself to do it. I think that would’ve been really powerful. I suppose it can’t feasibly be edited in, though.

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i think vader’s story is more tragic if padmé dies believing in him rather than losing hope in him and trying to kill him.