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Is Revenge of the Sith the Best or Worst Prequel? — Page 6

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“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

Watto is kinda iffy though, I’ll give him that.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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 (Edited)

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

chyron8472 said:
And Jar Jar’s character was overtly racist

I think this statement has no real basis in reality to be honest, and says more about the US’s historic relationship with racial stereotypes and racial issues in general then what’s actually in the movie. For the character to be overtly racist one must first find sufficient evidence for either racist intentions, or clear evidence of the character being a racial stereotype, neither of which is the case in my view. I personally fail to see how an orange amphibian with floppy ears is supposed to be representative of a person of color outside of the fact that the character was portrayed by a black man.

For what it’s worth, my friends and I all agreed Jar Jar acted, walked and talked with the racial stereotypes of a black man. From the strutting type gait, the “mesa sorry” type language etc. It was painfully obvious to me and many others. It isn’t one of those things that you have to look at “just right” to see it either.

Well, I’m a black man, and I didn’t percieve Jar Jar as reflecting on me as a person, or on my racial background. I just saw a clumpsy floppy eared orange character meant to entertain kids portrayed by a black man who gave the character a somwhat Caribbean inflection in his speech. However, I’m absolutely convinced that the character in no way was intended to ridicule or attack people of color, and so I can only view such a point of view as stemming from a sort of overcompensation in response to racial stereotyping that happened in the past. To quote another user on another forum:

If I’m a black man and another black man says “Hey, that guy is tall, clumsy , stupid and speaks funny, that’s supposed to be us.”, I would say “it may be you sir, but that does not represent me.”

So, in my view if you see a racial stereotype in Jar Jar Binks, it’s because you are conditioned to see a racial stereotype, not because Lucas put it there to ridicule another race of people.

I agree that Lucas did not intend to ridicule anyone…that being said, Jar Jar is a stereotypical African American in many ways. They are exaggerated in the manner Dom mentioned of course but that is what makes it glaringly obvious. The asian and Jewish stereotypes are quite obvious as well.

Interesting bit I found whilst typing this out for you.

https://davechen.net/2012/02/racism-and-ethnic-stereotypes-in-star-wars-the-phantom-menace/

"Bruce Gottlieb over at Slate wrote up a pretty good summary of Lucas’s racial offenses when Phantom Menace was first released:

Crafty Japanese trade villains aren’t the only heavy-handed ethnic stereotype in The Phantom Menace. As the story continues, the heroes slip past the evil Japanese to a nearby planet. There, they attempt to repair their broken spaceship but are stymied by the hook-nosed owner of the local parts shop–Watto–who also happens to have a thick Yiddish accent! (To hear an example, click “Great.”) Psychological manipulations that work on almost everyone fail with Watto–“Mind ticks don’ta work on me … only money! No,” he cries–and the heroes get what they want only through the bravery of a gifted slave boy (Anakin Skywalker). At the end of the desert planet sequence, Anakin is emancipated but separated from his mother, who still belongs to Watto. Even in a galaxy far away, the Jews are apparently behind the slave trade.

And then there’s Jar Jar Binks, the childlike sidekick with the unmistakably West Indian accent and enormous buttocks. Jar Jar is likable, easygoing, and dumb as dirt–always being scolded or saved from death by the Jedi knights. His stupidity and cowardice are running jokes throughout the film. And his people, the Gungan, are a brave but primitive tribe who throw spears and rocks at the oncoming army in the climactic battle sequence. Only Hispanics escape Lucas’ caricature, which is actually something of a mixed blessing since Hispanics often rightly complain that they are ignored in the national race debate."

Well to me these comparisons are like people that see dogs in a cloud. It says more about people claiming there’s a stereotype than what’s actually being conveyed by the movie. The above narrative is not Lucas’ narrative. It is Bruce Gottlieb’s. It’s like those videos that through clever editing make it seem Frodo and Sam in LOTR, or Rocky and Apollo in Rocky 3 are gay lovers. You take a flying blue alien who’s driven by money with a slurf, you claim the slurf is a hook nose, the rough voice is yiddish somehow, and voilá you just invented a Jewish stereotype.

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ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

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 (Edited)

The critic was checking out Jar Jar’s butt?

And I don’t recall any Gungans throwing spears or rocks at the battle droid army. They aren’t primitive and have technology. Undercuts their arguments when you make up stuff that doesn’t happen in the movie.

Most of Watto’s face is a nose. He’s like ALF’s greedy uncle or something.

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Where were you in '77?

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Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

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DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

chyron8472 said:
And Jar Jar’s character was overtly racist

I think this statement has no real basis in reality to be honest, and says more about the US’s historic relationship with racial stereotypes and racial issues in general then what’s actually in the movie. For the character to be overtly racist one must first find sufficient evidence for either racist intentions, or clear evidence of the character being a racial stereotype, neither of which is the case in my view. I personally fail to see how an orange amphibian with floppy ears is supposed to be representative of a person of color outside of the fact that the character was portrayed by a black man.

For what it’s worth, my friends and I all agreed Jar Jar acted, walked and talked with the racial stereotypes of a black man. From the strutting type gait, the “mesa sorry” type language etc. It was painfully obvious to me and many others. It isn’t one of those things that you have to look at “just right” to see it either.

Well, I’m a black man, and I didn’t percieve Jar Jar as reflecting on me as a person, or on my racial background. I just saw a clumpsy floppy eared orange character meant to entertain kids portrayed by a black man who gave the character a somwhat Caribbean inflection in his speech. However, I’m absolutely convinced that the character in no way was intended to ridicule or attack people of color, and so I can only view such a point of view as stemming from a sort of overcompensation in response to racial stereotyping that happened in the past. To quote another user on another forum:

If I’m a black man and another black man says “Hey, that guy is tall, clumsy , stupid and speaks funny, that’s supposed to be us.”, I would say “it may be you sir, but that does not represent me.”

So, in my view if you see a racial stereotype in Jar Jar Binks, it’s because you are conditioned to see a racial stereotype, not because Lucas put it there to ridicule another race of people.

I agree that Lucas did not intend to ridicule anyone…that being said, Jar Jar is a stereotypical African American in many ways. They are exaggerated in the manner Dom mentioned of course but that is what makes it glaringly obvious. The asian and Jewish stereotypes are quite obvious as well.

Interesting bit I found whilst typing this out for you.

https://davechen.net/2012/02/racism-and-ethnic-stereotypes-in-star-wars-the-phantom-menace/

"Bruce Gottlieb over at Slate wrote up a pretty good summary of Lucas’s racial offenses when Phantom Menace was first released:

Crafty Japanese trade villains aren’t the only heavy-handed ethnic stereotype in The Phantom Menace. As the story continues, the heroes slip past the evil Japanese to a nearby planet. There, they attempt to repair their broken spaceship but are stymied by the hook-nosed owner of the local parts shop–Watto–who also happens to have a thick Yiddish accent! (To hear an example, click “Great.”) Psychological manipulations that work on almost everyone fail with Watto–“Mind ticks don’ta work on me … only money! No,” he cries–and the heroes get what they want only through the bravery of a gifted slave boy (Anakin Skywalker). At the end of the desert planet sequence, Anakin is emancipated but separated from his mother, who still belongs to Watto. Even in a galaxy far away, the Jews are apparently behind the slave trade.

And then there’s Jar Jar Binks, the childlike sidekick with the unmistakably West Indian accent and enormous buttocks. Jar Jar is likable, easygoing, and dumb as dirt–always being scolded or saved from death by the Jedi knights. His stupidity and cowardice are running jokes throughout the film. And his people, the Gungan, are a brave but primitive tribe who throw spears and rocks at the oncoming army in the climactic battle sequence. Only Hispanics escape Lucas’ caricature, which is actually something of a mixed blessing since Hispanics often rightly complain that they are ignored in the national race debate."

Well to me these comparisons are like people that see dogs in a cloud. It says more about people claiming there’s a stereotype than what’s actually being conveyed by the movie. The above narrative is not Lucas’ narrative. It is Bruce Gottlieb’s. It’s like those videos that through clever editing make it seem Frodo and Sam in LOTR, or Rocky and Apollo in Rocky 3 are gay lovers. You take a flying blue alien who’s driven by money with a slurf, you claim the slurf is a hook nose, the rough voice is yiddish somehow, and voilá you just invented a Jewish stereotype.

I’m trying to think in the manner you’ve posted but I just cannot in good faith agree with you. I recall clearly my thoughts on these characters the first time I saw them. Some more obvious, some less. The trade federation and Watto stook out like a sore thumb. Jar Jar is, imo, an amalgamation of island and African stereotypes. That makes him less glaring than the first two.

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DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw any.

But that’s what they are…perhaps the better word is bulbous? Go take a look and tell me what you think.

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 (Edited)

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing. They also bow a lot, mix up their I’s and R’s. Sound familiar? C’mon guys.

http://media.weirdworm.com/img/misc/the-five-most-racist-star-wars-characters/nute-gunray-neimoi.jpg

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 (Edited)

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing.

Yes, but the fact that many thought similarly doesn’t make it true. It’s cherry picking. You ignore the alien on the left, and focus on the one on the right, because you believe, he fits the narrative, even though the visual similarity is tenuous at best.

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 (Edited)

I thought the Nemoidians were supposed to be the same species as these guys from the Cantina scene, but I guess not?

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color.

That’s a bit of an odd statement. They are all ‘people of colour’, yes, but Indian, Jamaican and Creole are three very different cultures with noticeably different accents. I fail to see how Jar Jar can be a stereotype of all three at the same time.

Creox said:

The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Bulbous fish-eyes hardly make them look Asian. “Walk around like Geishas”? That’s a really weird comparison. can’t say I’ve seen a lot of Geishas walking around, but that’s not a comparison I’d ever make. The Neimoidians are meant to be cowardly fish-men that walk around nervously with their hands in an awkward manner.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing.

Yes, but the fact that many thought similarly doesn’t make it true.

Really? How does that make sense? If one person or a few dozen thought this then you might have a case. The debate over this issue in general with the TPM and the PT is well known and well documented. As noted before, I don’t believe Lucas was going out of his way here but To say this has no legs is just false.

Watto in the next movie has a small beard and hat that looks decidedly Hasidic. Am I really just imagining this? Seriously?

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DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing.

Yes, but the fact that many thought similarly doesn’t make it true. It’s cherry picking. You ignore the alien on the left, and focus on the one on the right, because you believe, he fits the narrative, even though the visual similarity is tenuous at best.

Fair enough and i agree. You ignored the other criteria I was using to make my thoughts clearer.

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 (Edited)

ZkinandBonez said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color.

That’s a bit of an odd statement. They are all ‘people of colour’, yes, but Indian, Jamaican and Creole are three very different cultures with noticeably different accents. I fail to see how Jar Jar can be a stereotype of all three at the same time.

Creox said:

The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Bulbous fish-eyes hardly make them look Asian. “Walk around like Geishas”? That’s a really weird comparison. can’t say I’ve seen a lot of Geishas walking around, but that’s not a comparison I’d ever make. The Neimoidians are meant to be cowardly fish-men that walk around nervously with their hands in an awkward manner.

As I said, the Jar Jar stereotypes are an amalgamation of these different cultures. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. Geisha was what I thought of first when I watched them walking, heads bowed, hands clasped in front. They obviously have Asian accents. This is not a vague comparison but quite glaring. They also pronounce their I and R in a way a cliched Asian person would talk English.

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Personally, I think ROTS is by far the best prequel, and more than that, it is the only one that I actually enjoy. (Just a little).

For me, this mostly comes down to Ewan McGregor, who is so likable and delivers his dialogue so well that I can’t help but enjoy it. I know objectively that his dialogue isn’t good, but he delivers it perfectly.

I decided to add a signature

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 (Edited)

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing.

Yes, but the fact that many thought similarly doesn’t make it true.

Really? How does that make sense? If one person or a few dozen thought this then you might have a case. The debate over this issue in general with the TPM and the PT is well known and well documented. As noted before, I don’t believe Lucas was going out of his way here but To say this has no legs is just false.

Watto in the next movie has a small beard and hat that looks decidedly Hasidic. Am I really just imagining this? Seriously?

Humans see patterns in things that simply aren’t there. It is our nature.

Is the cloud deliberately or subconciously attempting to look like Winnie the Poo, or is it all in the eyes of the beholder?

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Looks more like a WWI helmet or a hubcap to me. YMMV.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Supposedly Watto’s accent is ‘Italian’

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It doesn’t really matter if the story needs to be told so long as the end result is entertaining (that is, unless it’s one of the cases where knowing more takes too much mystery away, but this isn’t one of them). TPM may not be as relevant to the story as AotC, but it sure as hell is more entertaining.

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SilverWook said:

I thought the Nemoidians were supposed to be the same species as these guys from the Cantina scene, but I guess not?

In Legends, Neimoidians are descended from Duros.

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 (Edited)

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing. They also bow a lot, mix up their I’s and R’s. Sound familiar? C’mon guys.

Most characters in the prequels bow a lot, including the Jedi and the senators, so the Neimoidians are hardly unique in that aspect (they bow very little, and not very far down, compared to the humans overall). And quickly scanning through their scenes in TPM I couldn’t find a single moment where they mix up their J’s and R’s.

I’m not saying that there’s not vaguely Asian characteristics to the accents. Their tone of voice has similarities to traditional Samurai, or Edo period characters in general. Some of the enunciation are also similar. But to say that they walk like Geishas, have Asian-looking eyes,Asian facial features, that they represent duplicitous yellow peril stereotypes despite their made-up alien look and behavior, is just plain odd to me. If they had long nails and fu-manchu mustaches, then I’d agree that they were blatant stereotypes.

Like I said, there are some Asian similarities, or rather influences when they made the accents, but I have to agree with DreDre that the extent to which people go to compare them to Asians, or specifically Japanese (or in some cases Chinese), seems to be quite a stretch. I have the same problem with how people perceive Jar Jar. He’s become a perceived amalgamation of several contradictory stereotypes; based on very different cultures and accents.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
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Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Looks more like a WWI helmet or a hubcap to me. YMMV.

Like this guys hubcap?

You guys are sure going out of your way here.

Author
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing. They also bow a lot, mix up their I’s and R’s. Sound familiar? C’mon guys.

Most characters in the prequels bow a lot, including the Jedi and the senators, so the Neimoidians are hardly unique in that aspect (they bow very little, and not very far down, compared to the humans overall). And quickly scanning through their scenes in TPM I couldn’t find a single moment where they mix up their J’s and R’s.

I’m not saying that there’s not vaguely Asian characteristics to the accents. Their tone of voice has similarities to traditional Samurai, or Edo period characters in general. Some of the enunciation are also similar. But to say that they walk like Geishas, have Asian-looking eyes,Asian facial features, that they represent duplicitous yellow peril stereotypes despite their made-up alien look and behavior, is just plain odd to me. If they had long nails and fu-manchu mustaches, then I’d agree that they were blatant stereotypes.

Like I said, there are some Asian similarities, or rather influences when they made the accents, but I have to agree with DreDre that the extent to which people go to compare them to Asians, or specifically Japanese (or in some cases Chinese), seems to be quite a stretch. I have the same problem with how people perceive Jar Jar. He’s become a perceived amalgamation of several contradictory stereotypes; based on very different cultures and accents.

They apparently sport different accents in foreign language dubs of the film.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

ZkinandBonez said:

“West-Indian accent”? I though Jar Jar was supposed to sound Creole. And previously in this thread his accent was described as resembling Jamaican. This is really why the Jar Jar criticism confuses me so much. People can never agree on how exactly he is offensive. Also this is literally the first time I’ve heard mention of Jar Jar’s “buttocks”, and what does that have to do with Indians?

Also when was “crafty Japanese trade villains” ever a thing? I’ve heard people make ‘yellow peril’ comparisons, but apart from the accent (which the voice actor based on Philippino I belive) there’s not much about them that resembles any Asian cultures. Not that I’m aware of at least.

LoL

Well, sure but the point is that Jar Jar sounds decidedly stereotyped in that fashion. Be it Caribbean or Jamaican they all have a very noticeable trait that is very much human being of color. The trade federation have very obvious, thick Asian accents with large slitted eyes…they walk around like Geishas with their hands folded in front of them. I took the “crafty” in that phrase to just illustrate they were stereotypes that were cast as villains. Nothing more. Yellow peril certainly would fit that stereotype.

Watto and Jewish is ( I hope) not in need of an explanation?

Large slitted eyes…that’s a contradiction in terms if I ever saw one.

Obviously Asian…

The alien on the right is definitely Asian in facial characteristics but that is not the only trait I’m talking about. At any rate it is not important for my basic premise to be true. Many thought similarly, including the persons in the piece I linked. All my friends felt this way at the first viewing. They also bow a lot, mix up their I’s and R’s. Sound familiar? C’mon guys.

Most characters in the prequels bow a lot, including the Jedi and the senators, so the Neimoidians are hardly unique in that aspect (they bow very little, and not very far down, compared to the humans overall). And quickly scanning through their scenes in TPM I couldn’t find a single moment where they mix up their J’s and R’s.

I’m not saying that there’s not vaguely Asian characteristics to the accents. Their tone of voice has similarities to traditional Samurai, or Edo period characters in general. Some of the enunciation are also similar. But to say that they walk like Geishas, have Asian-looking eyes,Asian facial features, that they represent duplicitous yellow peril stereotypes despite their made-up alien look and behavior, is just plain odd to me. If they had long nails and fu-manchu mustaches, then I’d agree that they were blatant stereotypes.

Like I said, there are some Asian similarities, or rather influences when they made the accents, but I have to agree with DreDre that the extent to which people go to compare them to Asians, or specifically Japanese (or in some cases Chinese), seems to be quite a stretch. I have the same problem with how people perceive Jar Jar. He’s become a perceived amalgamation of several contradictory stereotypes; based on very different cultures and accents.

If you truly don’t see it then fair enough. I think it is a glaring and obvious collection of traits but each to their own subjective experience.