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All Things Star Trek — Page 189

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Possessed said:

Well they originated during TOS, and having them be Humanoid was the only way to make them convincing.

My philosophy is if you can’t make truly alien aliens, don’t include aliens in your story. The Trek universe is a largely anthropocentric universe anyway, so it would’ve been a better course of action to have made the Vulcans/Klingons/etc. derivations of humanity and left non-human entities out of the picture entirely.

These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its continuing mission: to monitor human Federation worlds, to seek out no new life and avoid other civilizations; to boldly go where humanity has already gone before.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Possessed said:

Well they originated during TOS, and having them be Humanoid was the only way to make them convincing.

My philosophy is if you can’t make truly alien aliens, don’t include aliens in your story. The Trek universe is a largely anthropocentric universe anyway, so it would’ve been a better course of action to have made the Vulcans/Klingons/etc. derivations of humanity and left non-human entities out of the picture entirely.

or you could just decide to enjoy the show and not nitpick at how you wish in-universe explanations were this and not that.

Everyone in the galaxy speaking English doesn’t stop me from enjoying SG-1.

I mean, if you’re going to dismiss a common-ancestry explanation as junk science, I don’t see how saying that common ancestor came from Earth would make it any better.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Possessed said:

Well they originated during TOS, and having them be Humanoid was the only way to make them convincing.

My philosophy is if you can’t make truly alien aliens, don’t include aliens in your story. The Trek universe is a largely anthropocentric universe anyway, so it would’ve been a better course of action to have made the Vulcans/Klingons/etc. derivations of humanity and left non-human entities out of the picture entirely.

or you could just decide to enjoy the show and not nitpick at how you wish in-universe explanations were this and not that.

One can enjoy a show while still wishing some things had been done differently.

Everyone in the galaxy speaking English doesn’t stop me from enjoying SG-1.

I view SG-1 as a satire. I don’t take it seriously at all. Even then, everything past Season 5 stinks.

I mean, if you’re going to dismiss a common-ancestry explanation as junk science, I don’t see how saying that common ancestor came from Earth would make it any better.

It’s plausible that if humanity ever colonizes space, certain populations will have to resort to genetic manipulation to comfortably exist on worlds with hotter/colder temperatures, higher/lower gravity, etc. Aliens blowing their load on primordial planets and said load evolving into near-identical lifeforms capable of interbreeding* is pure hokum.

*Interbreeding in spite of often having radically divergent body chemistries & anatomies, I might add.

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I’m glad Duracell was never in the writers room during the original series run.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Handman said:

I’m glad Duracell was never in the writers room during the original series run.

He has a point. If you’re suggesting none of these stories should’ve been told until budgets and practical effects work were up to your standards, well…that’s a bit asinine, no?

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MTFBWY…A

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If these guys

were changed from an extraterrestrial species into a human subspecies, it would change essentially nothing about the episode. Nothing about the series in general would change. Exploration and meeting new civilizations would still be the focus of the show; only the origin/nature of those civilizations would be different.

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Hope suspension of disbelief isn’t dead. That said, I get annoyed when more recent series opted for minor head/ear cosmetics.

The blue elephant in the room.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

If these guys

were changed from an extraterrestrial species into a human subspecies, it would change essentially nothing about the episode. Nothing about the series in general would change.

Really? Because I would wonder “how the fuck did that happen” since supposedly humans from earth hadn’t been there before? If humans have already been through the galaxy and altered the gene pool that actually kinda changes the premise of the entire series. If it were in TNG I’d buy it since much more time and space exploration had past but not in TOS.

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Possessed said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

If these guys

were changed from an extraterrestrial species into a human subspecies, it would change essentially nothing about the episode. Nothing about the series in general would change.

Really? Because I would wonder “how the fuck did that happen” since supposedly humans from earth hadn’t been there before? If humans have already been through the galaxy and altered the gene pool that actually kinda changes the premise of the entire series. If it were in TNG I’d buy it since much more time and space exploration had past but not in TOS.

It’s not a scenario which would’ve worked in the timeline as-is. Human colonization of space would’ve had to been going on a lot longer than a couple hundred years.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Possessed said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

If these guys

were changed from an extraterrestrial species into a human subspecies, it would change essentially nothing about the episode. Nothing about the series in general would change.

Really? Because I would wonder “how the fuck did that happen” since supposedly humans from earth hadn’t been there before? If humans have already been through the galaxy and altered the gene pool that actually kinda changes the premise of the entire series. If it were in TNG I’d buy it since much more time and space exploration had past but not in TOS.

It’s not a scenario which would’ve worked in the timeline as-is. Human colonization of space would’ve had to been going on a lot longer than a couple hundred years.

Which changes the premise of the entire original series…

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But you said

Nothing about the series in general would change.

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Discovery…Kelvin…the return of Picard…these current status of Star Trek! The current producers objectives: to completely f up Star Trek, to completely ruin it, to boldyly drive away the fans that no version of Trek could drive away before!

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Possessed said:

But you said

Nothing about the series in general would change.

You wanna know how I would’ve handled TOS if I’d been in charge? What the premise would’ve been? How I would’ve executed it? All the ins and outs?

Alright.

Here goes.

I’m going back to the '60s, now. . . .

***

The Federation would be over 1000 years old, but Mankind itself would’ve been exploring space for over 4000 years. In those thousands of years, humans spread throughout the Orion Arm of the galaxy. Due to various extenuating circumstances — war, plague, etc. — a fair number of these colonies became separated & isolated, forgotten. Some of these isolated colonies diverged significantly from baseline humanity, culturally and/or physiologically. Some, like the Vulcans, were peaceful & friendly and had little problem resuming contact with humanity. Others, like the Klingons, become warlike xenophobes. So on, so forth.

The series would be set in the late 7th millennium — 6745-6749 CE. At the beginning of the series, the Federation would not have yet made verified first contact with intelligent species of extraterrestrial origin. Ruins & relics of extinct alien civilizations have been catalogued, and spacers tell tall-tales of encounters with mysterious entities at the fringes of known space, but there’d be no confirmed sightings or encounters with living, breathing aliens.

Kirk’s five-year mission would primarily consist of

  1. Patrolling the borders with the Klingon & Romulan Empires.
  2. Delivering supplies to outlying outposts & colonies.
  3. Dealing with pirates & smugglers.
  4. Doing light exploration into areas of space which have been charted but not quite explored yet.

Most of the “new civilizations” Kirk & co. would encounter would be isolated human & near-human cultures. Eventually, however, genuine aliens would surface — truly bizarre critters like the Horlas & Excalbians & Salt Vampires & Melkot. They would remain few and far between, however, due to budgetary/SFX limitations.

And that’s my Star Trek.

P.S. – I’d also like to do ongoing character & story arcs, if the executives don’t mind deviation from the standard episodic storytelling formula. A full five seasons would be swell, too.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

And that’s my Star Trek.

Why does it have to be Star Trek? It could be some other series/franchise entirely, and let Star Trek be what it is.

Mrebo said:

Hope suspension of disbelief isn’t dead.

Basically this. The science of the franchise doesn’t have to make sense to our universe; it just has to make sense and be believable in and of its own universe.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Warbler said:

Discovery…Kelvin…the return of Picard…these current status of Star Trek! The current producers objectives: to completely f up Star Trek, to completely ruin it, to boldyly drive away the fans that no version of Trek could drive away before!

What?! Come on.

They rebooted Star Trek with the Kelvin Universe to attract a more mainstream audience. Discovery is a dumpster fire, yes, but not deliberately. And we really have no idea what they’ll do with Picard or if it will even actually lead to anything substantive.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Possessed said:

But you said

Nothing about the series in general would change.

You wanna know how I would’ve handled TOS if I’d been in charge? What the premise would’ve been? How I would’ve executed it? All the ins and outs?

Alright.

Here goes.

I’m going back to the '60s, now. . . .

***

The Federation would be over 1000 years old, but Mankind itself would’ve been exploring space for over 4000 years. In those thousands of years, humans spread throughout the Orion Arm of the galaxy. Due to various extenuating circumstances — war, plague, etc. — a fair number of these colonies became separated & isolated, forgotten. Some of these isolated colonies diverged significantly from baseline humanity, culturally and/or physiologically. Some, like the Vulcans, were peaceful & friendly and had little problem resuming contact with humanity. Others, like the Klingons, become warlike xenophobes. So on, so forth.

The series would be set in the late 7th millennium — 6745-6749 CE. At the beginning of the series, the Federation would not have yet made verified first contact with intelligent species of extraterrestrial origin. Ruins & relics of extinct alien civilizations have been catalogued, and spacers tell tall-tales of encounters with mysterious entities at the fringes of known space, but there’d be no confirmed sightings or encounters with living, breathing aliens.

Kirk’s five-year mission would primarily consist of

  1. Patrolling the borders with the Klingon & Romulan Empires.
  2. Delivering supplies to outlying outposts & colonies.
  3. Dealing with pirates & smugglers.
  4. Doing light exploration into areas of space which have been charted but not quite explored yet.

Most of the “new civilizations” Kirk & co. would encounter would be isolated human & near-human cultures. Eventually, however, genuine aliens would surface — truly bizarre critters like the Horlas & Excalbians & Salt Vampires & Melkot. They would remain few and far between, however, due to budgetary/SFX limitations.

And that’s my Star Trek.

P.S. – I’d also like to do ongoing character & story arcs, if the executives don’t mind deviation from the standard episodic storytelling formula. A full five seasons would be swell, too.

It’s easy to look back 50+ years and rewrite a groundbreaking science fiction universe with all the benefits provided by exposure to 50+ years of material that is both contained within and inspired by the universe you’re rewriting.

I’d watch your show today, though. It just wouldn’t be anything close to what we know as Star Trek.

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MTFBWY…A

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chyron8472 said:

Warbler said:

Discovery…Kelvin…the return of Picard…these current status of Star Trek! The current producers objectives: to completely f up Star Trek, to completely ruin it, to boldyly drive away the fans that no version of Trek could drive away before!

What?! Come on.

They rebooted Star Trek with the Kelvin Universe to attract a more mainstream audience. Discovery is a dumpster fire, yes, but not deliberately. And we really have no idea what they’ll do with Picard or if it will even actually lead to anything substantive.

I believe they are talking about merging the two timelines or creating yet another timeline. The whole thing is a mess. I believe Trek should be put out of its misery and then left to rest in peace.

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Warbler said:

I believe they are talking about merging the two timelines or creating yet another timeline. The whole thing is a mess. I believe Trek should be put out of its misery and then left to rest in peace.

I don’t see what that has to do with Kelvin, nor do I understand why Kelvin is supposed to be awful. It’s different, but it still feels like Star Trek. Discovery doesn’t feel like Star Trek.

I’m reserving judgment about Picard until there actually is something new regarding Picard to actually watch. Until then I’m pretty much ignoring any and all news about it because I’m neither enthused about nor interested in it.

Also, Warb, I think you put too much stock in what this or that supposed authority says is canon. In my view, they can say Discovery is in the Prime Universe all they want, but if it doesn’t make sense for it to be, I’m not required to consider it to be. Nevermind Picard, because there’s still nothing but talk at this point.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Possessed said:

But you said

Nothing about the series in general would change.

You wanna know how I would’ve handled TOS if I’d been in charge? What the premise would’ve been? How I would’ve executed it? All the ins and outs?

Alright.

Here goes.

I’m going back to the '60s, now. . . .

***

The Federation would be over 1000 years old, but Mankind itself would’ve been exploring space for over 4000 years. In those thousands of years, humans spread throughout the Orion Arm of the galaxy. Due to various extenuating circumstances — war, plague, etc. — a fair number of these colonies became separated & isolated, forgotten. Some of these isolated colonies diverged significantly from baseline humanity, culturally and/or physiologically. Some, like the Vulcans, were peaceful & friendly and had little problem resuming contact with humanity. Others, like the Klingons, become warlike xenophobes. So on, so forth.

The series would be set in the late 7th millennium — 6745-6749 CE. At the beginning of the series, the Federation would not have yet made verified first contact with intelligent species of extraterrestrial origin. Ruins & relics of extinct alien civilizations have been catalogued, and spacers tell tall-tales of encounters with mysterious entities at the fringes of known space, but there’d be no confirmed sightings or encounters with living, breathing aliens.

Kirk’s five-year mission would primarily consist of

  1. Patrolling the borders with the Klingon & Romulan Empires.
  2. Delivering supplies to outlying outposts & colonies.
  3. Dealing with pirates & smugglers.
  4. Doing light exploration into areas of space which have been charted but not quite explored yet.

Most of the “new civilizations” Kirk & co. would encounter would be isolated human & near-human cultures. Eventually, however, genuine aliens would surface — truly bizarre critters like the Horlas & Excalbians & Salt Vampires & Melkot. They would remain few and far between, however, due to budgetary/SFX limitations.

And that’s my Star Trek.

P.S. – I’d also like to do ongoing character & story arcs, if the executives don’t mind deviation from the standard episodic storytelling formula. A full five seasons would be swell, too.

What you’re describing is a different show entirely. Star Trek is literally all about exploring the stars and finding new life forms.

That’d be like saying “My Star Wars would feature a galaxy at peace where occasionally there’ll be a light battle here and there but no all out wars.”

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DominicCobb said:

That’d be like saying “My Star Wars would feature a galaxy at peace where occasionally there’ll be a light battle here and there but no all out wars.”

So the new canon period between the OT and the ST. =P

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Tobar said:

DominicCobb said:

That’d be like saying “My Star Wars would feature a galaxy at peace where occasionally there’ll be a light battle here and there but no all out wars.”

So the new canon period between the OT and the ST. =P

Thing is I don’t see a problem with what DE described being a Star Trek spin-off show (DS9 isn’t about exploring either, from what I understand). But we’re talking about the original, quintessential Star Trek here.

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chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

And that’s my Star Trek.

Why does it have to be Star Trek? It could be some other series/franchise entirely, and let Star Trek be what it is.

Who said it has to be? I certainly didn’t. It’s a hypothetical “what if?” scenario.

Perhaps I failed to convey myself properly, but just for those who may think otherwise, I don’t dislike TOS. Indeed, it’s my second favourite series after DS9. It’s an imperfect series, yes. There are things I would’ve done differently, certainly. But at the end of the day, it’s a product of its time and I can take it — and enjoy it — for what it is. I don’t stay awake at night cursing Roddenberry for not being Frank Herbert.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

And that’s my Star Trek.

Why does it have to be Star Trek? It could be some other series/franchise entirely, and let Star Trek be what it is.

Who said it has to be? I certainly didn’t. It’s a hypothetical “what if?” scenario.

It didn’t sound merely hypothetical. It sounded like you want Star Trek to be something it is not and doesn’t need to be, to the point that there’s no need to even call it Star Trek. I was saying if you wanted that, there’s nothing stopping it being its own entity rather than replace Trek—especially if the reasoning for replacing Trek is both due to real-world budgetary constraints, and that you don’t accept in-universe explanations of those constraints.

When you say “And that’s my Star Trek”, you suggest that what you propose is a superior concept to replace the current implementation rather than an entirely alternate concept that should stand on its own.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.