to be fair, dialogue in RotS is at times much better than in TLJ imo.
This is an absolutely absurd statement. I’m legitimately baffled.
That being said, TLJ talk is not allowed in this thread. So let’s leave it.
I think most people were expecting Anakin to be put in the Vader suit at the end. Where we got stiffed is we didn’t get to see Vader do much of anything. Vader was so prominent in the advertising and merchandising, that the fact he was barely in the movie was a bit of a letdown.
I sort of regret never trying these as I just didn’t want to think of Anakin burning over breakfast.
I had them, they sucked.
Story-wise I think ROTS is definitely the best PT films, visually however I think it’s the worst of the three.
Based purely on nostalgia I prefer TPM out of the three, but just practically speaking I think ROTS is the best of the PT over-all. It’ has the most solid story, fairly good good pacing, the acting (although a tad weird at times) is solid, and it feels like it actually matters. TPM and ATOC both feel like they’re just setting up a bigger story that we never really got to see (unless you count the Clone Wars series or the EU in general).
I’ve personally really warmed up to ROTS lately, and I even, dare I say it, think it’s a fairly good film just in general. AOTC is still a complete mess that’s hard for me to excuse even as a SW fan, though I still like the Obi-Wan scenes, and the first act is pretty solid for the most part. TPM’s biggest sin is just being kind of boring and telling a fairly unimportant story (it feels more like the plot of a SW tie-in novel). But I would say that it feels the most Star Wars-y of the three PT films, and visually I think it looks great. The practical effects are among some of the best I’ve seen (especially the miniatures), and the CG, though dated, is good for its time. That’s really my biggest gripe with ROTS, it looks really fake and the action is so over-the-top at times. Though when it calms down and focuses on the characters, I think it works pretty well. It’s a movie that I think suffers a lot from it not conforming to fan expectations.
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.
I think most people were expecting Anakin to be put in the Vader suit at the end. Where we got stiffed is we didn’t get to see Vader do much of anything. Vader was so prominent in the advertising and merchandising, that the fact he was barely in the movie was a bit of a letdown.
I enjoy the Q2 Fall of the Jedi edits, which completely remove Vader in the suit.
I find that I actually prefer it that way. It makes Vader in the OT more legit, as the way suited Vader is shown in the PT it feels mainly there for fan service.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.
Though I guess the other two have this problem as well. It’s funny, I started this thread to get in a passionate debate about ROTS vs. TPM, but honestly I see where people are coming from most of the time in picking the latter. I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.
So I would love for someone to explain to me how ROTS is worse than AOTC.
It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.
Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.
I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.
As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.
There is just one moment in that whole film that is watchable. And that is the scene with Anakin and Padme , in separate parts of Coruscant, when Mace heads off to confront Palpatine. And that whole scene is done with visuals and no dialogue. Williams’ music also boosts that scene. But the rest, it’s just sooooo bad.
That’s the one scene I mentioned earlier.
DominicCobb, I really can’t find anything in your original post to argue or even disagree with. That said, I do find TPM to feel more like Star Wars. From the music to the settings, it captures the world very well. In ROTS that world is falling apart and changing so while it is a better film in most respects, that familiar feeling I had when I saw TPM is not there. So when I rank them I usually rank TPM over ROTS.
It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.
Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.
I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.
As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.
The ship, set, and costume designs in general are too ornate and (on the whole) lack the rugged, lived-in and (most importantly) utilitarian feel of the OT. Even if they are justified in universe because of the film’s areas of interest (rich Naboo and Coruscant), it just doesn’t feel quite right for a SW film to have that kind of stuff as a primary focus. If the out-there designs weren’t so abundant, it probably wouldn’t feel like a problem to me.
But that’s not all of it. Pretty much all CG aliens in the film look silly and out of place. Not to mention the Gungans and their underwater city, which straddles a line between somewhat inspired and just plain wacky.
I will say I’m a fan of the battle droids. I probably would’ve preferred them a tad bulkier but they look pretty good.
DominicCobb, I really can’t find anything in your original post to argue or even disagree with. That said, I do find TPM to feel more like Star Wars. From the music to the settings, it captures the world very well. In ROTS that world is falling apart and changing so while it is a better film in most respects, that familiar feeling I had when I saw TPM is not there. So when I rank them I usually rank TPM over ROTS.
The music is definitely better in TPM, not even a question. I will say ROTS is very dramatic/operatic, which, while it helps make the film interesting on its own terms, hurts in terms of making it feel like SW. TPM’s smaller scope certainly helps in that regard.
I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.
Wow. Thanks, I guess.
I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.
Wow. Thanks, I guess.
I will say I’m willing to hear an argument before I pass final lunatic status. But it’s not looking good for you.
It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.
Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.
I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.
As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.
The ship, set, and costume designs in general are too ornate and (on the whole) lack the rugged, lived-in and (most importantly) utilitarian feel of the OT. Even if they are justified in universe because of the film’s areas of interest (rich Naboo and Coruscant), it just doesn’t feel quite right for a SW film to have that kind of stuff as a primary focus. If the out-there designs weren’t so abundant, it probably wouldn’t feel like a problem to me.
But that’s not all of it. Pretty much all CG aliens in the film look silly and out of place. Not to mention the Gungans and their underwater city, which straddles a line between somewhat inspired and just plain wacky.
I will say I’m a fan of the battle droids. I probably would’ve preferred them a tad bulkier but they look pretty good.
That’s interesting, I’ve personally always felt that the Gungan City was one of the most Star Wars-y things in the PT. It’s like a cross between the basic ideas behind Cloud City and the Ewok village. One of the biggest problems for me with the whole idea of an “OT aesthetic” is that we never really saw that much of the galaxy in those movies, only a tiny, tiny glimpse of it. Tatooine, Hoth and Endor hardly gave us a real sense of what the rest of the galaxy might look like. The shiny-ness and elegance of Cloud City, which btw is supposed to be a small mining operation, always justified the look of Coruscant (and the “fancier” PT locales) to me. Though I do agree that some of the designs are way too fancy. I especially think Kamino looks very out of place compared to both trilogies.
And, yes, the TPM aliens can be a tad silly, especially the pod-racers. I think that’s a side-effect of Lucas specifically wanting make aliens that would be impossible as people in suits.
The way I see it the PT is supposed to be a “fall of Rome” kind of story, as opposed to the gritty, 1970’s, WWII influenced interpretation of sci-fi vibe that we associate with the OT. I’ve always felt that the Empire, despite it’s obvious references to Nazi Germany, has more of a Soviet Union feel to it over-all. Everything they make is kinda drab and angular, like a lot of Russian architecture and engineering used to be. It’s a galaxy with all the colour and life sucked out of it, and naturally, to rebel against all that, the heroes are all swashbuckling pirates and rebels. In order for the PT to work, IMO, it had to be more colourful, formal, and regal to show that bygone golden age that Obi Wan alludes to in ANH. At east that’s how I see it, and what I believe Lucas was going for when he made the PT.
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.
I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.
Wow. Thanks, I guess.
I will say I’m willing to hear an argument before I pass final lunatic status. But it’s not looking good for you.
I don’t remember insulting people who like TLJ, which is in my opinion the worst SW movie, and the worst movie I have seen in years, but OK. But what kind of “argument” you want to hear? There is nothing objectively quantifiable about opinions. I personally can’t take seriously anything which looks like a video game. Hell I’ve seen video games which look more realistic than this “movie”. If you can’t get “absorbed” in the movie, you will immediately start to notice different things. Like the acting, where you can clearly see the actors are doing it because they are contractually obligated to do so and not because they care. The story is much worse than in AOTC, it’s just a collection of random scenes followed by what seems to be a 10 hour long boring duel. Which reminds me - the editing. The scenes just come and go, most of them don’t have any beginning, middle or an end. Enough or should I continue? As I said the only positive thing I can say about this movie is that the score is great as every thing Williams ever did.
It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.
Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.
I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.
As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.
The ship, set, and costume designs in general are too ornate and (on the whole) lack the rugged, lived-in and (most importantly) utilitarian feel of the OT. Even if they are justified in universe because of the film’s areas of interest (rich Naboo and Coruscant), it just doesn’t feel quite right for a SW film to have that kind of stuff as a primary focus. If the out-there designs weren’t so abundant, it probably wouldn’t feel like a problem to me.
But that’s not all of it. Pretty much all CG aliens in the film look silly and out of place. Not to mention the Gungans and their underwater city, which straddles a line between somewhat inspired and just plain wacky.
I will say I’m a fan of the battle droids. I probably would’ve preferred them a tad bulkier but they look pretty good.
That’s interesting, I’ve personally always felt that the Gungan City was one of the most Star Wars-y things in the PT. It’s like a cross between the basic ideas behind Cloud City and the Ewok village. One of the biggest problems for me with the whole idea of an “OT aesthetic” is that we never really saw that much of the galaxy in those movies, only a tiny, tiny glimpse of it. Tatooine, Hoth and Endor hardly gave us a real sense of what the rest of the galaxy might look like. The shiny-ness and elegance of Cloud City, which btw is supposed to be a small mining operation, always justified the look of Coruscant (and the “fancier” PT locales) to me. Though I do agree that some of the designs are way too fancy. I especially think Kamino looks very out of place compared to both trilogies.
As I sort of alluded to, I’m love/hate with Otoh Gunga. Certain things I really like about it. A simple way to sum up might be that I like the exterior, but not the interior.
I have no problem with the films forging a path beyond the OT, it wouldn’t make sense not too. I just feel like in some respects they should have hewn closer. Like I said, it’s more the abundance of it that’s a problem for me.
As for Kamino, I have similar thoughts with the underwater city. On the whole I kind of like it, but certain things (those chairs, some of the interior doors, the Kaminoans themselves) are just kinda wacky. The CG doesn’t help.
The way I see it the PT is supposed to be a “fall of Rome” kind of story, as opposed to the gritty, 1970’s, WWII influenced interpretation of sci-fi vibe that we associate with the OT. I’ve always felt that the Empire, despite it’s obvious references to Nazi Germany, has more of a Soviet Union feel to it over-all. Everything they make is kinda drab and angular, like a lot of Russian architecture and engineering used to be. It’s a galaxy with all the colour and life sucked out of it, and naturally, to rebel against all that, the heroes are all swashbuckling pirates and rebels. In order for the PT to work, IMO, it had to be more colourful, formal, and regal to show that bygone golden age that Obi Wan alludes to in ANH. At east that’s how I see it, and what I believe Lucas was going for when he made the PT.
Oh I get that. My problem is that they went from space Rome to space Nazi Germany in 20 some years. The galaxy turns on a dime. We should have seen things on the brink of a dictatorship from the start. Instead we see most things are actually pretty nice, just with some politicians bickering merely telling us that it’s not so nice everywhere. The fact that we spend so much time on Naboo - which starts out beautiful and peaceful, and then gets occupied briefly but still looks the same and then remains beautiful and peaceful for the rest of the trilogy - is really emblematic of the problem of the approach there (the other big one being that they spend so much time on Coruscant).
what movie are you talking about, pittrek?
It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.
Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.
I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.
As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.
The ship, set, and costume designs in general are too ornate and (on the whole) lack the rugged, lived-in and (most importantly) utilitarian feel of the OT. Even if they are justified in universe because of the film’s areas of interest (rich Naboo and Coruscant), it just doesn’t feel quite right for a SW film to have that kind of stuff as a primary focus. If the out-there designs weren’t so abundant, it probably wouldn’t feel like a problem to me.
But that’s not all of it. Pretty much all CG aliens in the film look silly and out of place. Not to mention the Gungans and their underwater city, which straddles a line between somewhat inspired and just plain wacky.
I will say I’m a fan of the battle droids. I probably would’ve preferred them a tad bulkier but they look pretty good.
I think the sets and costumes for TPM are appropriate for a society at its peak that has yet to be ravaged by the Empire. Free, wealthy societies have rich culture with beautiful, ornate architecture and fashion. Coruscant and Naboo fit quite well with what I’d expect “before the dark times”.
Jedit: Beaten by ZkinandBonez.
MTFBWY…A
I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.
Wow. Thanks, I guess.
I will say I’m willing to hear an argument before I pass final lunatic status. But it’s not looking good for you.
I don’t remember insulting people who like TLJ, which is in my opinion the worst SW movie, and the worst movie I have seen in years, but OK. But what kind of “argument” you want to hear? There is nothing objectively quantifiable about opinions. I personally can’t take seriously anything which looks like a video game. Hell I’ve seen video games which look more realistic than this “movie”. If you can’t get “absorbed” in the movie, you will immediately start to notice different things. Like the acting, where you can clearly see the actors are doing it because they are contractually obligated to do so and not because they care. The story is much worse than in AOTC, it’s just a collection of random scenes followed by what seems to be a 10 hour long boring duel. Which reminds me - the editing. The scenes just come and go, most of them don’t have any beginning, middle or an end. Enough or should I continue? As I said the only positive thing I can say about this movie is that the score is great as every thing Williams ever did.
First of all, calm your shit, it’s a joke. Second of all, we’re not talking about TLJ, I’m asking how you think AOTC is better. I’m genuinely curious. That’s not a lot to ask for.
I assume you’re talking about ROTS? Just strange to me because I would say literally the same things about AOTC (besides the long duel). What makes me so curious about your opinion is that AOTC and ROTS are bad in basically all the same ways so it’s weird for me to hear someone like one and hate the other.
As I said before - I enjoy the action scenes in AOTC. I enjoy nothing (except for the score) in ROTS.
Poor Frink, He’s missing so much.
“Get over violence, madness and death? What else is there?”
Also known as Mr. Liquid Jungle.
Worst. Because they had one simple job to do and they blew it.
I think most people were expecting Anakin to be put in the Vader suit at the end. Where we got stiffed is we didn’t get to see Vader do much of anything. Vader was so prominent in the advertising and merchandising, that the fact he was barely in the movie was a bit of a letdown.
I sort of regret never trying these as I just didn’t want to think of Anakin burning over breakfast.
Is it just me, or does it say, “wild gerry filling,” in the corner?
What really bothers me the most about the prequels isn’t the fancy aesthetics, but the fact that the Galaxy appears to be way more advanced technologically 30-20 years before the OT.
Although TPM is visually the most Star Wars-sy looking of the prequels because it was the only one shot on film and used real sets and more practical effects, story-wise TPM is all over the place. AOTC’s only saving grace for me is the lightsaber duel between Yoda and Dooku (yes I enjoy that scene, sue me).
ROTS is most definitely the best of the prequels in terms of overall story and character (I still dislike the whole saving Padmé as Anakin’s reason for turning to the Dark Side), and the I enjoy the most. I also think it’s only one of the prequels that really feeds into the OT plot-wise (if you ignore TPM and AOTC you won’t really miss out on anything).
BTW, porn star Lexi Belle is a huge SW fan and considers AOTC her favourite of the franchise, so make of that what you will.
What really bothers me the most about the prequels isn’t the fancy aesthetics, but the fact that the Galaxy appears to be way more advanced technologically 30-20 years before the OT.
Although TPM is visually the most Star Wars-sy looking of the prequels because it was the only one shot on film and used real sets and more practical effects, story-wise TPM is all over the place. AOTC’s only saving grace for me is the lightsaber duel between Yoda and Dooku (yes I enjoy that scene, sue me).
ROTS is most definitely the best of the prequels in terms of overall story and character (I still dislike the whole saving Padmé as Anakin’s reason for turning to the Dark Side), and the I enjoy the most. I also think it’s only one of the prequels that really feeds into the OT plot-wise (if you ignore TPM and AOTC you won’t really miss out on anything).BTW, porn star Lexi Belle is a huge SW fan and considers AOTC her favourite of the franchise, so make of that what you will.
Holograms, holograms everywhere! About the only time someone in the prequels uses a video screen to communicate is aboard Bail Organa’s ship.
Where were you in '77?
BTW, porn star Lexi Belle is a huge SW fan and considers AOTC her favourite of the franchise, so make of that what you will.
Colour me unsurprised.
