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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 142

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Anchorhead said:
For a great many fans, adding to the story is preferable to rewriting it.

Which as absolutly not what TLJ does. Nothing is rewriten.

We’re just looking at it from a different perspective. It’s the film that finally says Hey maybe the Jedi were wrong. Maybe the status quo of the galaxy needs to change if we need to truly stop the empire. Maybe the way to win is not through heroes and warriors but ordinary people like Rose and Finn and that kid with the broom. And the film ends with both sides being right, yes the Jedi sucked but they dont have to. Yeah one guy swinging a laser sword cant bring down the First order, but the idea or the legend of him could.

I liken it to Captain America Civil war, which challenges the ideas around Heros and their place in society. Should Superhero’s be able to do what they want in order to solve the worlds problems or should they be accountable as part of society. And it ends not on a Definitive answer but more of a “Yes, but”. Like all good questions there are no black and white answers.

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DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉

I’d find that neither satisfying or necessary.

I watched TFA again the other day on TBS and I disagree even more now. Unless knowledge of how to use the force transferred to her from her mind link with Kylo, the simple fact that she on her own thought to use the Jedi mind trick needs some sort of explanation…unless I am forgetting something. Like, you don’t just come up with a Jedi force skill out of thin air at exactly the moment you need it. She doesn’t have to be a Skywalker, she doesn’t have to have a lineage of importance, but she has to have had some training early in life.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:
I watched TFA again the other day on TBS and I disagree even more now. Unless knowledge of how to use the force transferred to her from her mind link with Kylo, the simple fact that she on her own thought to use the Jedi mind trick needs some sort of explanation…unless I am forgetting something. Like, you don’t just come up with a Jedi force skill out of thin air at exactly the moment you need it. She doesn’t have to be a Skywalker, she doesn’t have to have a lineage of importance, but she has to have had some training early in life.

She knew about the Jedi, that much we know. And I’m sure that knowlege of the Jedi included what kind of powers they had such as the Jedi mind trick. She probably thought “Hey the force let me get inside Kylo’s head, let’s try it on this guy”.

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Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:
I watched TFA again the other day on TBS and I disagree even more now. Unless knowledge of how to use the force transferred to her from her mind link with Kylo, the simple fact that she on her own thought to use the Jedi mind trick needs some sort of explanation…unless I am forgetting something. Like, you don’t just come up with a Jedi force skill out of thin air at exactly the moment you need it. She doesn’t have to be a Skywalker, she doesn’t have to have a lineage of importance, but she has to have had some training early in life.

She knew about the Jedi, that much we know. And I’m sure that knowlege of the Jedi included what kind of powers they had such as the Jedi mind trick. She probably thought “Hey the force let me get inside Kylo’s head, let’s try it on this guy”.

Ok, but we just have to assume that because she knew who Luke Skywalker was?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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if we’re looking at the actual big picture, VIII and VII have to be in line with the original 6, which in several aspects, they’re not, which breaks the immersion for several people.

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 (Edited)

Hardcore Legend said:
Ok, but we just have to assume that because she knew who Luke Skywalker was?

We dont have to assume that, we can deduce that through the evidence shown through the text.

So how did she know that Jedi can control minds. Just look at the film and the most likely answer is that since she knew OF the Jedi she probably knew what the Jedi could do. In TFA she get excited when she hears the name Luke Skywalker, Its a moment of “I know that guy and everything about him”, we can deduce that she’s heard the stories and knows them back to front. In TLJ She says the force is for “Lifting rocks” without ever seeing a Jedi lift rocks. Rey is basically an In universe star wars fan.

Collipso said:

if we’re looking at the actual big picture, VIII and VII have to be in line with the original 6, which in several aspects, they’re not, which breaks the immersion for several people.

Why does it need to “Line up”? What do people want? A complete retread or something new and interesting. The fact that they are using these movies to explore themes and ideas outside of the scope of these films is a good thing. Heck only two of them are considered “Genuinely good cinema”.

If we want to look at story continuity, The PT and the OT share almost no narrative cohesion. OT is the hero’s Journey a’la Joseph Campbell. The PT is a shakespearian tragedy. Very different stories and that’s totally fine.

If anything the ST is more like the OT than the PT ever was. Its the Heroes Journey but with a whole bunch more subtext and metanarative.

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They’re not in line with rules that people have established based on the previous 6, sure. But there isn’t anything that directly contradicts with what’s actually in the films. It’s only rewriting our perceptions of the universe, not the films themselves.

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Anchorhead said:

Chewielewis said:

The fact is RJ went out of his way to make a Star Wars film that challenged everything we know about star wars. About the force, the Jedi, the roles of heroes and villains, politics and economics. It’s very deliberate. And for that reason some people hate it, others think its the best film since Empire.

I think all these nit picks about Jedi training and power levels and admirals not sharing plans with captains are kind of missing the big picture.

Yes, RJ deliberately went out of his way to challenge established canon. The fact that there is a large portion of the fan base arguing about it doesn’t mean they don’t get it, it means they don’t like it.

It’s this condescension that I have a problem with. “You just don’t get it.” No, I get it, especially since you’ve kindly explained it to me many times over. I just think it’s crap.

Chewielewis said:

Anchorhead said:
For a great many fans, adding to the story is preferable to rewriting it.

Which as absolutly not what TLJ does. Nothing is rewriten.

We’re just looking at it from a different perspective. It’s the film that finally says Hey maybe the Jedi were wrong. Maybe the status quo of the galaxy needs to change if we need to truly stop the empire. Maybe the way to win is not through heroes and warriors but ordinary people like Rose and Finn and that kid with the broom. And the film ends with both sides being right, yes the Jedi sucked but they dont have to. Yeah one guy swinging a laser sword cant bring down the First order, but the idea or the legend of him could.

I liken it to Captain America Civil war, which challenges the ideas around Heros and their place in society. Should Superhero’s be able to do what they want in order to solve the worlds problems or should they be accountable as part of society. And it ends not on a Definitive answer but more of a “Yes, but”. Like all good questions there are no black and white answers.

If you think TLJ is the first film to suggest maybe the Jedi were on the wrong path, you’ve forgotten some key scenes in the prequels. Yoda made his concerns about the state of the Jedi Order clear in AotC—particularly as it relates to the cockiness/arrogance of the younger Jedi—and comes right out and says the prophecy may have been misread.

After the fall of the Jedi due to their own arrogance, Yoda spends decades on Degobah meditating. After hesitating to train Luke, what does he teach Luke to do with his powers? Pass on what you have learned. He didn’t say “rebuild the Jedi” or “start recruiting kids”. It’s the sequels that brought us the idea of Luke starting a school and kicking off a new Jedi Order based on some sacred Jedi texts. If anything, by the end of RotJ, Luke learned there were different ways to approach problems aside from those his masters espoused. That’s why I find TLJ’s take on Luke so disappointing. There was no reason he had to represent the old way of doing things; he could’ve just as easily been the start of the new way you describe. Maybe Rey comes into it with a bunch of crazy Jedi stories in her head and Luke sits her down and says, look kid, regardless of the stories you’ve heard, the Jedi got some things wrong, and we need to try something different this time.

In the end, despite all the questions you raise about classical heroes and their roles, they did stop the Empire. The Rebellion won the war and Luke saved his father. And yet, for reasons nobody has explained, the galaxy ends up with Empire II—excuse me, the First Order—and they’re right back in the same situation again. The Jedi Order had been wiped out decades before and Luke had barely started training new Jedi, so clearly the Jedi “sucking” weren’t the issue this time. So where did it all come from? Maybe ordinary, everyday people get it wrong sometimes and they occasionally need a hero to come in and clean up the mess. And maybe audiences find that more compelling than Broom Boy.

Part of creativity comes from dealing with constraints, and when telling a story, the constraints include the rules of the world you’ve built. TLJ tosses many of those constraints aside, and while it may have resulted in an interesting exercise in filmmaking and storytelling, it resulted in a Star Wars movie that many of us find unrecognizable and unpalatable.

I wish Johnson had just been given his trilogy without touching the original saga. He could’ve told his own story about characters on the other side of the galaxy in some unexplored region who developed their own way of using the Force, minus all the Jedi and Sith baggage.

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I think the films can definitely square up.

ROTJ Luke learns how to be a Jedi, makes his Jedi academy to work as he sees fit. Doesn’t even read the Jedi Texts. This much we can deduce.

Snoke comes along, creates the FO by rekindling the ashes of the Empire. Starts working his influence over Lukes pupils. Where does Snoke come from? We likely know as much as the characters do.

Luke notices something odd in Ben, he reaches out and feels the dark side, the emperor, vader, everything he fought in the past but stronger than he ever encounterd. He freaks out, grabs his lightsaber. Why? because fear leads to hate ect ect. Its a moment of weakness where he lets his guard down and let the darkside drive his actions (and if you think this is out of character, you need to rewatch ROTJ, fear is exactly what makes hm go a darkside against his father).

So after making a catastrophic mistake he flies to the island and becomes a recluse, realising that his own ways were not good enough to fight the dark side. Just like Yoda and Obi-wan. Not making much attempt to stop the Empire/FO on their own are they.

I really don’t see any conflict here, it all makes narrative sense to me.

If you’re looking for reasons why it doesn’t work then you’re going to have to go all the way back to 77 because the whole thing asks for a whopping great big heap of suspension of disbelieve to believe any of it.

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Chewielewis said:

The fact is RJ went out of his way to make a Star Wars film that challenged everything we know about star wars. About the force, the Jedi, the roles of heroes and villains, politics and economics. It’s very deliberate. And for that reason some people hate it, others think its the best film since Empire.

I think all these nit picks about Jedi training and power levels and admirals not sharing plans with captains are kind of missing the big picture.

What I think is most wrong about this is the suggestion that an abstraction or meta-commentary of Star Wars makes for a good Star Wars film.

In line with what you say, some people think it was a good Star Wars film in addition to that. I think the story is undermined by it.

Being concerned about representation of the Force or other alleged nitpicks may seem like small potatoes, but they’re part of what makes Star Wars. Those things aren’t thematically important but theme isn’t everything.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:
Ok, but we just have to assume that because she knew who Luke Skywalker was?

We dont have to assume that, we can deduce that through the evidence shown through the text.

So how did she know that Jedi can control minds. Just look at the film and the most likely answer is that since she knew OF the Jedi she probably knew what the Jedi could do. In TFA she get excited when she hears the name Luke Skywalker, Its a moment of “I know that guy and everything about him”, we can deduce that she’s heard the stories and knows them back to front. In TLJ She says the force is for “Lifting rocks” without ever seeing a Jedi lift rocks. Rey is basically an In universe star wars fan.

What evidence? It isn’t that she knew about Luke because he was a Jedi, it was that she knew the stories of the Rebel Alliance. She was just as much a fangirl of Han Solo. Can we deduce she knew how to fix/fly the Falcon bc she knew everything about Han Solo, back to front? If so, no wonder Owen never told Luke stories about his father. He’d have become the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior right there on the ground in the desert.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:
What evidence? It isn’t that she knew about Luke because he was a Jedi, it was that she knew the stories of the Rebel Alliance. She was just as much a fangirl of Han Solo. Can we deduce she knew how to fix/fly the Falcon bc she knew everything about Han Solo, back to front? If so, no wonder Owen never told Luke stories about his father. He’d have become the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior right there on the ground in the desert.

She knew Luke skywalker and she knew about the Jedi. This exchange from TFA.

          HAN
      There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
      The people who knew him the best
      think he went looking for the first
      Jedi temple.

                     REY
      The Jedi were real?

                     HAN
      I used to wonder that myself. Thought
      it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo --
      magical power holding together good,
      evil, the dark side and the light.

                     (BEAT)
      'Crazy thing is, it's true. The
      Force, the Jedi, all of it. It's
      all true.

So it’s implied that Rey has heard these crazy stories too. Which we can safely assume would include Jedi using Mind tricks. In her world the Jedi are a myth, magical wizards who can move rocks and fuck with peoples minds.

But I never said thats How she could do the mind trick. She was able to do the mind trick because she gained that knowlege thorugh that Kylo mind meld. How does that work? The same way throwing a child into the deep end teaches them how to swim. You could say THE FORCE AWAKENED in her.

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

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Chewielewis said:

I think the films can definitely square up.

ROTJ Luke learns how to be a Jedi, makes his Jedi academy to work as he sees fit. Doesn’t even read the Jedi Texts. This much we can deduce.

Snoke comes along, creates the FO by rekindling the ashes of the Empire. Starts working his influence over Lukes pupils. Where does Snoke come from? We likely know as much as the characters do.

Luke notices something odd in Ben, he reaches out and feels the dark side, the emperor, vader, everything he fought in the past but stronger than he ever encounterd. He freaks out, grabs his lightsaber. Why? because fear leads to hate ect ect. Its a moment of weakness where he lets his guard down and let the darkside drive his actions (and if you think this is out of character, you need to rewatch ROTJ, fear is exactly what makes hm go a darkside against his father).

So after making a catastrophic mistake he flies to the island and becomes a recluse, realising that his own ways were not good enough to fight the dark side. Just like Yoda and Obi-wan. Not making much attempt to stop the Empire/FO on their own are they.

I really don’t see any conflict here, it all makes narrative sense to me.

If you’re looking for reasons why it doesn’t work then you’re going to have to go all the way back to 77 because the whole thing asks for a whopping great big heap of suspension of disbelieve to believe any of it.

Again, I’m not saying it doesn’t work. I’m saying I think it’s terrible.

The story, the characters, all of it. It’s all terrible.

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NeverarGreat said:

Except that TFA makes a big point of saying how Finn doesn’t know how to drive, and in ANH Han is skeptical that either Luke or Obi-wan could fly his spaceship. So maybe piloting is like flying a plane and takes some training, moreso than a car.

Well I can drive a car, but I cant drive a 18 wheeler truck or a Racecar or a Motorbike. Also I know plenty of adults who never learned to drive so that’s not unheard of. Analogies are never perfect but I think this one gets the idea across.

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Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

She knows the Falcon inside out, yet claims that it’s ‘garbage’ before later teaching Han about compressors inhibiting the hyperdrive and auxiliary fuel pumps etc etc. It’s odd that someone with such intimate mechanical knowledge of the galaxy’s most famous hot rod would be so disparaging of it before boarding.

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Shopping Maul said:

Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

She knows the Falcon inside out, yet claims that it’s ‘garbage’ before later teaching Han about compressors inhibiting the hyperdrive and auxiliary fuel pumps etc etc. It’s odd that someone with such intimate mechanical knowledge of the galaxy’s most famous hot rod would be so disparaging of it before boarding.

She doesn’t know it’s the Falcon at the time. Before meeting Han, it’s just some old hunk of junk freighter Unkar Plut keeps around under a tarp.

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SilverWook said:

Shopping Maul said:

Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

She knows the Falcon inside out, yet claims that it’s ‘garbage’ before later teaching Han about compressors inhibiting the hyperdrive and auxiliary fuel pumps etc etc. It’s odd that someone with such intimate mechanical knowledge of the galaxy’s most famous hot rod would be so disparaging of it before boarding.

She doesn’t know it’s the Falcon at the time. Before meeting Han, it’s just some old hunk of junk freighter Unkar Plut keeps around under a tarp.

But the point I’m making is that if she really had all that mechanical knowledge (as later expressed) she would certainly not write the ship off as garbage. She would have to know its potential if she had such a grasp of its inner workings.

It’s like JJ wanted a “what a piece of junk” moment (and yes, it was a great moment) but forgot that she was also an engineering genius. I just think it would’ve been better if she’d claimed the ship was rubbish, and then discovered in real time that it was actually a diamond in the rough. In fact it could’ve been Han that showed her the Falcon’s true potential which would’ve given her some kind of learning curve.

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I had the impression the Falcon had some new modifications made since it was stolen from Han, (possibly detrimental compared to her OT state) and Rey simply knew the ship’s current idiosyncrasies better.

IIRC, there was a detail in one of the Brian Daley novels where Han had to make do with locally available parts/tech that was very problematic, and he ripped it all out and replaced it at the first opportunity.

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 (Edited)

Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:
What evidence? It isn’t that she knew about Luke because he was a Jedi, it was that she knew the stories of the Rebel Alliance. She was just as much a fangirl of Han Solo. Can we deduce she knew how to fix/fly the Falcon bc she knew everything about Han Solo, back to front? If so, no wonder Owen never told Luke stories about his father. He’d have become the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior right there on the ground in the desert.

She knew Luke skywalker and she knew about the Jedi. This exchange from TFA.

          HAN
      There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
      The people who knew him the best
      think he went looking for the first
      Jedi temple.

                     REY
      The Jedi were real?

                     HAN
      I used to wonder that myself. Thought
      it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo --
      magical power holding together good,
      evil, the dark side and the light.

                     (BEAT)
      'Crazy thing is, it's true. The
      Force, the Jedi, all of it. It's
      all true.

So it’s implied that Rey has heard these crazy stories too. Which we can safely assume would include Jedi using Mind tricks. In her world the Jedi are a myth, magical wizards who can move rocks and fuck with peoples minds.

But I never said thats How she could do the mind trick. She was able to do the mind trick because she gained that knowlege thorugh that Kylo mind meld. How does that work? The same way throwing a child into the deep end teaches them how to swim. You could say THE FORCE AWAKENED in her.

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

Wait, are we saying Rey now gains her power in the Force through the linking of minds with Kylo? I just made that up in my previous post. Is there any explanation of that in the films or any other materials?

This ST might have been better served if when Snoke revealed he had linked Kylo and Rey’s minds, he also revealed that HE had been the one using the Force through Rey and all the things she had done in her escape in TFA were him manipulating her mind to embarrass his pupil (Kylo) and to draw out Skywalker. Then her fear that she was “nobody” and she had no part in this story was true. Kylo still kills Snoke but Rey, now broken much like Luke was at the end of ESB, must actually learn to use the Force to defeat Kylo.

Instead, she’s done everything she’s wanted to in the Force within 5 minutes of trying it the first time…without anyone prompting her on how to do it.

And we are assuming she’s heard enough stories about the Jedi on the desert planet she lives on with no parents, mentors or guardians to have taught herself to be a Jedi without even knowing it.

I just find it hard to believe no one in the story group or the LFL team working on the films told Rian if he’s going to go the route of her being a nobody with no ties to the PT/OT, you’re going to have to explain some of this on-screen or in EU.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Shopping Maul said:

Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

She knows the Falcon inside out, yet claims that it’s ‘garbage’ before later teaching Han about compressors inhibiting the hyperdrive and auxiliary fuel pumps etc etc. It’s odd that someone with such intimate mechanical knowledge of the galaxy’s most famous hot rod would be so disparaging of it before boarding.

It hasn’t flown in years and it has the compressor that Rey doesn’t seem to want to deal with. I think that is why she called it garbage. She wanted the small, fast ship (which she may have flown before) over the old, unmoving hulk with questionable engineering.

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Hardcore Legend said:

Chewielewis said:

Hardcore Legend said:
What evidence? It isn’t that she knew about Luke because he was a Jedi, it was that she knew the stories of the Rebel Alliance. She was just as much a fangirl of Han Solo. Can we deduce she knew how to fix/fly the Falcon bc she knew everything about Han Solo, back to front? If so, no wonder Owen never told Luke stories about his father. He’d have become the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior right there on the ground in the desert.

She knew Luke skywalker and she knew about the Jedi. This exchange from TFA.

          HAN
      There're a lot of rumors. Stories.
      The people who knew him the best
      think he went looking for the first
      Jedi temple.

                     REY
      The Jedi were real?

                     HAN
      I used to wonder that myself. Thought
      it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo --
      magical power holding together good,
      evil, the dark side and the light.

                     (BEAT)
      'Crazy thing is, it's true. The
      Force, the Jedi, all of it. It's
      all true.

So it’s implied that Rey has heard these crazy stories too. Which we can safely assume would include Jedi using Mind tricks. In her world the Jedi are a myth, magical wizards who can move rocks and fuck with peoples minds.

But I never said thats How she could do the mind trick. She was able to do the mind trick because she gained that knowlege thorugh that Kylo mind meld. How does that work? The same way throwing a child into the deep end teaches them how to swim. You could say THE FORCE AWAKENED in her.

Rey knows how to fly because shes been around ships all her life, she knows the falcon because Unkar Putt owns it and shes probably been in it many times. In Star Wars, knowing how to fly is basically knowing how to drive.

Wait, are we saying Rey now gains her power in the Force through the linking of minds with Kylo? I just made that up in my previous post. Is there any explanation of that in the films or any other materials?

This ST might have been better served if when Snoke revealed he had linked Kylo and Rey’s minds, he also revealed that HE had been the one using the Force through Rey and all the things she had done in her escape in TFA were him manipulating her mind to embarrass his pupil (Kylo) and to draw out Skywalker. Then her fear that she was “nobody” and she had no part in this story was true. Kylo still kills Snoke but Rey, now broken much like Luke was at the end of ESB, must actually learn to use the Force to defeat Kylo.

Instead, she’s done everything she’s wanted to in the Force within 5 minutes of trying it the first time…without anyone prompting her on how to do it.

And we are assuming she’s heard enough stories about the Jedi on the desert planet she lives on with no parents, mentors or guardians to have taught herself to be a Jedi without even knowing it.

I just find it hard to believe no one in the story group or the LFL team working on the films told Rian if he’s going to go the route of her being a nobody with no ties to the PT/OT, you’re going to have to explain some of this on-screen or in EU.

You seem to think this is an incredulous idea. You do know that there are people out there who can do things after seeing it done once? People who can memorize songs with just one listen. Others who have photographic memories? Rey is one of those with the Force. The moment she is exposed to the Force, her potential ignites and everything she sees Kylo do, she tries to do. Luke doesn’t actually do anything so they only thing new she does is lift a bunch of rocks. It is silly to keep running on about how Rey learned the force powers when this thread is supposed to be TLJ specific and that complaint belongs in a TFA specific topic.

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DominicCobb said:

They’re not in line with rules that people have established based on the previous 6, sure. But there isn’t anything that directly contradicts with what’s actually in the films. It’s only rewriting our perceptions of the universe, not the films themselves.

I think you nailed it. A lot of what I hear (not just here) is that it breaks the rules. And when the rules are spelled out, they aren’t actually rules that the movies dictate. Complaints about how Rey learns the force skills don’t make sense to me. One easy lesson on the Falcon (without Ben demonstrating) and Luke can deflect blaster bolts while blind. Without any lessons or examples, Luke grabs his lightsaber in the Wampa cave. That is the first time we saw any Jedi levitate an object. While it is true that we don’t see the entirely of how Yoda trains Luke, we see Luke levitate small things, up to R2, and then fail to levitate his X-wing. Yoda says it is because he doesn’t believe he can because it is too big. With Rey, we see her exposed to mind reading, force suggestions, levitation, fighting with a lightsaber and then she does them (not all without some failure). From what I see, she learned them as easily as Luke did. She just learned more in a shorter time. Nothing different about how she did it. Implying that there is means you are going off of something that isn’t actually in the OT. (we never see anyone learn new force skills in the PT so any comparison to Anakin is pointless - all his training took place between the movies)

So both Luke and Rey seem to pick up force skills with little training. We never see Luke learn the skills he uses after the Wampa cave. He force jumps out of the carbon freeze chamber. He calls to Leia mentally. He force chokes Jabba’s guards. He uses force suggestion on Bib Fortuna (and tries to on Jabba). His ability with a lightsaber has grown to where he is a match for Vader. And when you look at the films. Luke only has a short time with two masters. The short trip from Tatooine to Alderaan with Ben and the time on Dagobah with Yoda (which was during the time that the Falcon was traveling from Hoth to Bespin - either sublight or a slow backup hyperdrive depending on who you ask). That is far less than the 10 years Anakin spent training. So obviously the Jedi spent a lot of time training on things besides force powers. Yoda spent a lot of the time we see on philosophy rather than skills in what we see with Luke.

So I really have to ask how Rey learns these things faster than Luke did? She learns more skills in a shorter time, but on a skill by skill comparison, she learns just as fast, not faster. That is what the movies show. Where does the idea that she is learning too easily come from? She at least has an example for each of her new skills. Luke doesn’t. Luke learns levitation from desperation, not because he has seen it before. Deflecting blaster bolts (which he doesn’t use until ROTJ) is the only force skill we actually see him learn directly from someone else (and Ben doesn’t demonstrate). In that light, Luke is the super Jedi, not Rey. The biggest difference between them is that Luke has doubts and Rey doesn’t. She sees these things and does them (“do or do not, there is no try” comes to mind).

The answer to this is that Rey learns too much too fast and that seems wrong to some. It isn’t and doesn’t violate a single movie established rule of the Star Wars universe. She goes through a process we have never actually seen before - the learning of force skills by example. We don’t know what is normal except for what little we have seen with Luke. Luke learned somethings completely on his own (there is no evidence that Ben was trying to train him between ANH and TESB so we can’t assume Luke’s attempt to levitate his lightsaber was using anything more than Ben’s vague “Use the force, Luke,” instructions). And Kylo doesn’t seem surprised that she picks up things so fast. Snoke even gets a laugh out of it. No surprise from them or Luke. So it is fan surprise that she learns the way she does at the speed she does that is out of place. If it jerks you out of the movie it means you have build up an idea in your head that isn’t supported by what we have seen in the first two trilogies.

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Hardcore Legend said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉

I’d find that neither satisfying or necessary.

Unless knowledge of how to use the force transferred to her from her mind link with Kylo, the simple fact that she on her own thought to use the Jedi mind trick needs some sort of explanation…unless I am forgetting something.

I suspect that Kylo UNLOCKED her force powers during the interrogation scene. Her force powers were sealed by someone who left her behind on Jakku. A planet so remote that even old Luke Skywalker admitted that Jakku is pretty much nowhere. But who was it? My guess: it was Reys mother. When Snoke was actively looking for young untrained force users, Reys mother hid her on Jakku never to be found by Snoke. Snokes search was successful though: he found Ben Solo.

I’m really hoping we will see Reys mother.

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
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