yotsuya said:
NeverarGreat said:
yotsuya said:
NeverarGreat said:
I think a lot of the disagreements over this movie have to do with situations in which a subtle shift in one’s interpretation lead to dramatically different readings of the movie at large. For example, when Finn is making his sacrificial run at the laser weapon and Rose saves him, there are two main ways to interpret the scene:
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Finn had a shot at destroying the weapon, but Rose valued Finn’s life over the destruction of the weapon. Because of this, Rose’s actions were misguided and would have doomed the Resistance were it not for Luke’s intervention.
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Finn had no chance of destroying the weapon, and his sacrifice, while a culmination of his character arc in the film, would have ultimately been a senseless waste. Rose acted rightly.
The trouble with these two interpretations is that they’re both equally valid in terms of what we see on screen. If Poe had said something along the lines of ‘Retreat, nothing can stop it now!’, then it would have been clear that Finn was acting out of pure unthinking hatred for the First Order. But he instead implied that it would take a suicide run to destroy the weapon, making Finn’s action heroic from the first interpretation.
This is just one example. This and others (such as Holdo’s leadership, Luke’s murderous moment, etc) rest on the shakiest ground for the audience to interpret in the way the filmmakers intend.
I would disagree. I think the the film has everything you need to interpret it the way it was intended. The problem is that sometimes it takes multiple viewings to get everything. On first viewing you might ignore the crumpling of Finn’s craft’s weapons, but on additional viewings it becomes clear that Finn stands no chance, at least not the way he is doing it. He is trying to fly down the barrel of the weapon, at the heart of the growing beam, and it will destroy him before he can damage it. To come to another conclusion requires ignoring information in the film. Most of the scenes being argued about have a lot of information if you pay attention and look. And I know many who didn’t like the film haven’t viewed it many times. Perhaps not enough to see the things that are quite clear to me and others. I get that TLJ was not to everyone’s taste, but some of the arguments put forth are really a stretch.
I assumed that since his weapons were rendered useless, he would have to ram the speeder into the barrel of the weapon to disable it, sacrificing himself in the process. This seems to be Finn’s thought process (who is actually the expert here), and it’s backed up by Poe who calls it a suicide mission. I don’t know where we’re supposed to get that it’s impossible for him to complete the mission.
If he is flying down the barrel of an active weapon and it has already started to crumple his craft - a craft already established a flimsy. Put the pieces together and there is no way this craft is massive enough to do any damage to the weapon before it is destroyed itself.
I would have thought that a hyperspace ramming maneuver wouldn’t have been supremely effective in this universe either based on the precisely zero times it has been considered before, but what do I know? I’d imagine that a twisted mass of metal jammed in the multitude of teeth of a rotating death ray might just do the trick, and as I’ve said before, Finn is the one who knows the most about First Order tech and its weaknesses.
He is flying down the beam so as he gets closer and the beam gets stronger the craft will be destroyed and never reach the target.
He was right in front of the opening when he was knocked off course, so his inertia alone would have been enough to do it.
Finn will die for nothing. Like I said, the pieces are there if you care to look. Saying it isn’t obvious is denying the pieces that are there in the images and dialog of the film. It was obvious to me on the first viewing that Finn didn’t stand a chance. The gun was too big and his little craft was too insignificant. And without weapons he won’t be able to do any damage.
I interpreted the crumpled weapons to mean that he couldn’t merely fire and escape the beam, but would have to crash his speeder into it. And even speeders can make big explosions when they crash.
If he was in an X-wing or a TESB speeder, I’d say he had a chance, but the pathetic craft he finds himself in doesn’t stand a chance. It is all there on screen.
The speeders are rickety, but still similar in mass and armament to a snowspeeder. If you say a snowspeeder would have a chance, then why not this one?
More than this quibbling over technical minutiae, this scene is clearly meant to thematically mirror the first scene of the movie where Poe’s reckless attack on the Dreadnought led to its destruction by a single flimsy bomber, at the cost of the bomber itself and most of the rest of the fleet. The audience is primed to expect a similar result in this case - a sacrificial act that destroys the target at too high a cost. If it is clear to you that his sacrifice will not even damage the weapon, then it must be especially clear to Finn. But after he has been knocked off course, he disbelievingly questions Rose about why she did that. She responds that the important thing is saving what you love, not destroying what you hate. How am I to interpret this other than Rose recognizing that he might have succeeded, but at the cost of what she loves?
And this is the major issue with many character moments in the film, and I think why people don’t buy it. There are reasonable interpretations on both sides for the rightness or wrongness of our hero’s actions, to the point where we can’t even be sure that our heroes (Poe, Finn, Rey) have made mistakes. Poe was justified in questioning authority and formulating his own plan. Finn was justified in wanting to save the Resistance at the cost of his own life. Rey was justified in attempting to turn Kylo to the light. This isn’t a case of Luke realizing the wrongness of abandoning his training to face Vader and suffering the consequences. This is a case of our heroes choosing the best of bad options and later being told they were wrong for choosing it, for no reason other than the movie decides it is so.
And guess what? Most people identify with the heroes, and don’t like being told they are wrong for no reason. And what lessons can our heroes hope to learn from this? Is it to blindly follow authority? Save a single person you love over many others? Don’t try to save a conflicted soul from the Dark Side? How can characters grow if their mistakes aren’t really mistakes?
