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All Things Star Trek — Page 179

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Mrebo said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Man the thing I love about Enterprise is that everything Kirk supposedly did first was actually done first by this Archer guy. That’s the best and most original writing to come out of Star Trek in years.

What did Kirk supposedly do first that no one else in the whole of Starfleet couldn’t have similarly done previously? By the time Kirk became a captain, Starfleet had been around for hundreds of years.

Enterprise doesn’t retcon Kirk doing anything first. And just because Kirk is routinely going where no man has gone before doesn’t mean no man has ever been anywhere Kirk ever goes.

Kirk apologist!

Well, seriously. It’s not like no one is going to go anywhere until Kirk gets around to doing it. TOS never says 1701 was the first ship to ever time travel; encounter the Romulans; or get the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites in the same room at the same time. I’m not sure what thunder Archer is supposed to have stolen from Kirk.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

Yeah, I don’t recall Kirk being the first to do much in TOS. Refresh my memory if I’m wrong, but I really don’t remember the show explicitly stating that his adventures were necessarily breaking new ground.

Also, remember when Kirk’s brother died in TOS and no one really cared or mentioned it again?

The Person in Question

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chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dek Rollins said:

Man the thing I love about Enterprise is that everything Kirk supposedly did first was actually done first by this Archer guy. That’s the best and most original writing to come out of Star Trek in years.

Dammit. If I had known that from the start, I would’ve watched this years ago and made it my #1 priority to rewatch it every year.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.hatdoctor.com/repairs.html&ved=2ahUKEwiBuOP-16LcAhVptlkKHbDSC3gQFjACegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0sXJ6Vb_txTPClxwzQxOK-

Except that his saying that would fall flat on its face had he actually watched the show.

HAHAHAHAHA!

I watched the entire show.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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 (Edited)

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Man the thing I love about Enterprise is that everything Kirk supposedly did first was actually done first by this Archer guy. That’s the best and most original writing to come out of Star Trek in years.

What did Kirk supposedly do first that no one else in the whole of Starfleet couldn’t have similarly done previously? By the time Kirk became a captain, Starfleet had been around for hundreds of years.

Enterprise doesn’t retcon Kirk doing anything first. And just because Kirk is routinely going where no man has gone before doesn’t mean no man has ever been anywhere Kirk ever goes.

Kirk apologist!

Well, seriously. It’s not like no one is going to go anywhere until Kirk gets around to doing it. TOS never says 1701 was the first ship to ever time travel; encounter the Romulans; or get the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites in the same room at the same time. I’m not sure what thunder Archer is supposed to have stolen from Kirk.

Did someone mention Romulans? The group of people that had actually never been seen by the Federation before Kirk? And how about Spock being the first Vulcan to join Starfleet? They weaseled out an excuse by having her not actually be an officer, but come on. I’m not saying that Kirk is some kind of god (what would God need with a starship?), but each series makes implications about what things the federation knows about and what is clearly newfound knowledge. Federation captains do have to report their missions y’know. They don’t just dillydally around and not tell command when they see the face of a Romulan for the first time in history.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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moviefreakedmind said:

Refresh my memory if I’m wrong, but I really don’t remember the show explicitly stating that his adventures were necessarily breaking new ground.

Hmmmmmm

captainkirk said:

…To boldly go where no man has gone before.

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 (Edited)

Yeah, I remember the goddamn intro. I mean specific things that Kirk was the first person in the galaxy to do.

The Person in Question

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I don’t recall anyone actually seeing the Romulans in Enterprise. They might have seen the Remans though.

Had the show gotten a few more seasons, I fully expected a Romulan War arc, and if Archer and the gang actually saw any Romulans, made a pact never to tell anyone and alter the logs to preserve the relationship with Vulcans. The late third season story with the Xenophobic faction on Earth being a factor in that.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Man the thing I love about Enterprise is that everything Kirk supposedly did first was actually done first by this Archer guy. That’s the best and most original writing to come out of Star Trek in years.

What did Kirk supposedly do first that no one else in the whole of Starfleet couldn’t have similarly done previously? By the time Kirk became a captain, Starfleet had been around for hundreds of years.

Enterprise doesn’t retcon Kirk doing anything first. And just because Kirk is routinely going where no man has gone before doesn’t mean no man has ever been anywhere Kirk ever goes.

Kirk apologist!

Well, seriously. It’s not like no one is going to go anywhere until Kirk gets around to doing it. TOS never says 1701 was the first ship to ever time travel; encounter the Romulans; or get the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites in the same room at the same time. I’m not sure what thunder Archer is supposed to have stolen from Kirk.

Did someone mention Romulans?

No one from Starfleet ever did see them in Enterprise. Heard their voice on audio-only comms, or saw their ships, yes. Saw the actual face of a Romulan? No. Administrator V’Las of the Vulcan High Command did see (one of) them, but no one else did and he was kicked out of the High Command not long before that organization was dissolved entirely.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kir'Shara_(episode)

The Earth-Romulan War (which takes place one year after Enterprise ended) happened before Kirk took command, and Kirk in TOS mentions no one had seen what they look like yet. But they are cousin-species to Vulcans, so it would make sense for a Vulcan not in Starfleet to once have seen them, especially if the Romulans are deviously trying to throw the Alpha Quadrant species into chaos from behind the scenes.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Earth-Romulan_War

And how about Spock being the first Vulcan to join Starfleet?

The USS Intrepid in TOS is entirely manned by Vulcans, so no. That’s not a thing.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Immunity_Syndrome_(episode)

Also, T’Pol transferred her commission from the Vulcan fleet; she never enrolled at Starfleet Academy.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

Man the thing I love about Enterprise is that everything Kirk supposedly did first was actually done first by this Archer guy. That’s the best and most original writing to come out of Star Trek in years.

What did Kirk supposedly do first that no one else in the whole of Starfleet couldn’t have similarly done previously? By the time Kirk became a captain, Starfleet had been around for hundreds of years.

Enterprise doesn’t retcon Kirk doing anything first. And just because Kirk is routinely going where no man has gone before doesn’t mean no man has ever been anywhere Kirk ever goes.

Kirk apologist!

Well, seriously. It’s not like no one is going to go anywhere until Kirk gets around to doing it. TOS never says 1701 was the first ship to ever time travel; encounter the Romulans; or get the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites in the same room at the same time. I’m not sure what thunder Archer is supposed to have stolen from Kirk.

Did someone mention Romulans?

No one from Starfleet ever did see them in Enterprise. Heard their voice on audio-only comms, or saw their ships, yes. Saw the actual face of a Romulan? No. Administrator V’Las of the Vulcan High Command did see (one of) them, but no one else did and he was kicked out of the High Command not long before that organization was dissolved entirely.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kir'Shara_(episode)

The Earth-Romulan War (which takes place one year after Enterprise ended) happened before Kirk took command, and Kirk in TOS mentions no one had seen what they look like yet. But they are cousin-species to Vulcans, so it would make sense for a Vulcan not in Starfleet to once have seen them, especially if the Romulans are deviously trying to throw the Alpha Quadrant species into chaos from behind the scenes.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Earth-Romulan_War

The Romulans were just a basic example because ‘encoutering Romulans’ was mentioned. I actually didn’t remember it happening specifically, I just assumed that’s what was being referred to since it was brought up.

And how about Spock being the first Vulcan to join Starfleet?

The USS Intrepid in TOS is entirely manned by Vulcans, so no. That’s not a thing.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Immunity_Syndrome_(episode)

The USS Intrepid is not proof of the contrary. Spock didn’t just materialize when Kirk took the Enterprise. Spock was in Starfleet for at least eleven years prior to the start of TOS, according to The Cage/The Menagerie. That’s plenty of time for the Vulcan government to request a Federation science vessel for their use or whatever may be the case.

Also, T’Pol transferred her commission from the Vulcan fleet; she never enrolled at Starfleet Academy.

Dek Rollins said:

They weaseled out an excuse by having her not actually be an officer, but come on.

Perhaps I’m thinking of him being the first Vulcan First Officer, or something of the like, but even if my memory of Star Trek lore is a bit off, it’s still just as lazy to put another Vulcan First Officer on the bridge ‘just cause.’

That’s the biggest problem here. I’m annoyed that implications are ignored, but I’m more annoyed by “hey, why don’t we just redo a bunch of stuff the old show did?”

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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I still wish they would have done a Captain Pike series instead. The short lived Marvel comic set in that era was pretty darn good.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

I still wish they would have done a Captain Pike series instead. The short lived Marvel comic set in that era was pretty darn good.

I would’ve also liked a Captain Sulu series. I think that was one of the ideas being thrown around right before they decided to start Enterprise.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

But then they would have had to address Lt. Valtane dying in Tuvok’s flashback on Voyager when he’s clearly alive at the end of TUC. 😛

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

Dek Rollins said:

That’s the biggest problem here. I’m annoyed that implications are ignored, but I’m more annoyed by “hey, why don’t we just redo a bunch of stuff the old show did?”

I feel like they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t. If they do something similar, they get crap because it’s similar. If they do something different, they get crap because it’s different. Or it’s different in the wrong way, or it’s… whatever it is that people don’t know they want but know they don’t want that.

Voyager and Enterprise are too much like TNG. DS9 is too much like Babylon 5. The Kelvin Universe is too much like Star Wars but with an Apple-style aesthetic on the bridge. For that matter, Star Wars is now too much like Marvel or too much like A New Hope or Old Luke is not enough like Young Luke.

I feel like people too often enjoy not liking things. Whereas I’m saying people don’t have to like it but they don’t have to make the time to bitch about it either.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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To Gary Mitchell levels one might say…

Forum Moderator
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chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

That’s the biggest problem here. I’m annoyed that implications are ignored, but I’m more annoyed by “hey, why don’t we just redo a bunch of stuff the old show did?”

I feel like they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t. If they do something similar, they get crap because it’s similar. If they do something different, they get crap because it’s different. Or it’s different in the wrong way, or it’s… whatever it is that people don’t know they want but know they don’t want that.

Voyager and Enterprise are too much like TNG. DS9 is too much like Babylon 5. The Kelvin Universe is too much like Star Wars but with an Apple-style aesthetic on the bridge. For that matter, Star Wars is now too much like Marvel or too much like A New Hope or Old Luke is not enough like Young Luke.

I feel like people too often enjoy not liking things. Whereas I’m saying people don’t have to like it but they don’t have to make the time to bitch about it either.

I love TOS TNG DS9 and the original motion picture series. I like some aspects of Voyager but overall it has less interesting characters outside of the Doctor. I actually wish I enjoyed it more, and I still watch it from time to time. The TNG movies are too far removed from the tone of the series as well as issues I have with the plots. I don’t like ENT because I think it’s dumb.

I don’t love to hate. I just think it’s weird that people like the bad stuff.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

That’s the biggest problem here. I’m annoyed that implications are ignored, but I’m more annoyed by “hey, why don’t we just redo a bunch of stuff the old show did?”

I feel like they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t. If they do something similar, they get crap because it’s similar. If they do something different, they get crap because it’s different. Or it’s different in the wrong way, or it’s… whatever it is that people don’t know they want but know they don’t want that.

Voyager and Enterprise are too much like TNG. DS9 is too much like Babylon 5. The Kelvin Universe is too much like Star Wars but with an Apple-style aesthetic on the bridge. For that matter, Star Wars is now too much like Marvel or too much like A New Hope or Old Luke is not enough like Young Luke.

I feel like people too often enjoy not liking things. Whereas I’m saying people don’t have to like it but they don’t have to make the time to bitch about it either.

I love the original motion picture series.

Do you love all of them though?

I just think it’s weird that people like the bad stuff.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

chyron8472 said:

Dek Rollins said:

That’s the biggest problem here. I’m annoyed that implications are ignored, but I’m more annoyed by “hey, why don’t we just redo a bunch of stuff the old show did?”

I feel like they’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t. If they do something similar, they get crap because it’s similar. If they do something different, they get crap because it’s different. Or it’s different in the wrong way, or it’s… whatever it is that people don’t know they want but know they don’t want that.

Voyager and Enterprise are too much like TNG. DS9 is too much like Babylon 5. The Kelvin Universe is too much like Star Wars but with an Apple-style aesthetic on the bridge. For that matter, Star Wars is now too much like Marvel or too much like A New Hope or Old Luke is not enough like Young Luke.

I feel like people too often enjoy not liking things. Whereas I’m saying people don’t have to like it but they don’t have to make the time to bitch about it either.

I love the original motion picture series.

Do you love all of them though?

I just think it’s weird that people like the bad stuff.

I love all of them but V, and even that I think is a great movie when you remove the stupid comedic filler (an edit I plan on making in the future).

And yes I know that “the bad stuff” is entirely subjective when it comes to something that isn’t objectively poorly made in every possible way, but IIRC there’s a pretty strong consensus that ENT isn’t very good.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time

If you drop the unfunny humour and re-edit the unfinished ending, STV can be pretty good. It has some wonderful character moments - the campfire sequences and the scene where Sybok tries to “heal” Spock, McCoy and Kirk belong to my favourite scenes of all of the movies

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pittrek said:

If you drop the unfunny humour and re-edit the unfinished ending, STV can be pretty good. It has some wonderful character moments - the campfire sequences and the scene where Sybok tries to “heal” Spock, McCoy and Kirk belong to my favourite scenes of all of the movies

Agreed. Those scenes are some of the best moments from the original movies. But then there some things so stupid I can hardly fathom their existence.

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This video is not available.
Sorry about that.

I’m not going to pretend that I understand why CBS regionally blocks all of their content outside of the USA, including shows they’re selling worldwide, but assuming that the trailer is identical or at least similar to the Netflix version, which I am allowed to watch, I don’t understand it - will Pike be the commander of both the Enterprise AND the Discovery? But at least it looks like they are planning to do some Star Trek things, like explorations. One thing I noticed is the final scene (or at least it’s final in the Netflix version) - the scene in the elevator - it really reminds me on The Orville. Not sure if it’s a good thing or a bad thing.