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A word to the Myspleeners.

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Hi all.

I would like to ask something to the Myspleen uploaders:

Please, don't release DVDs as .ISO files. There's no problem when the file is smaller than 4 GB, but when is bigger those who already have an O.S. based on the FAT32 file system just can't download it, because that O.S.' (mainly W98) don't allow files bigger than 4 GB.

I'm not trying to tell people how to do things, please don't take it that way; I just think the DVDs would be more shared if we avoid .ISO files.

Thanks for reading and for your great work.
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First - Please do not take this as an attack or a smart mouthed reply...

Sorry - I just started to release my DVD's as ISO files and I've been forced to do so - when I post VIDEO_TS folders some people are not downloading my NFO and DVD-Rom folders and in some cases they are then RE-Uploading the stuff on other sites/trackers without the NFO and DVD-Rom (or content folders) - so ISO works best as you can't simply pick and choose a file to DL and this keeps the DVD's 100% intact - I would really like my releases to stay intact and unaltered in any of the redistributions.

Again I'm not trying to be a dick..

I would also suggest moving up to WIN2000 at the very least for your OS - this will avoid the FAT32 issues (blue screen of death) and your PC will run a bit faster and smoother.

Thanks for your understanding in why we need to do ISO files

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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I never thought it that way. It's a good point; it must be hard to see your work used by other people and not even getting the credit for it.

The main reason I'm staying on W98 is because is less vulnerable to viruses. I mean, people who program viruses do it for WXP or W200, not for oldies like W98.

A pleasant solution for everyone would be to store the DVDs in splitted .RAR or .ZIP files instread of a single .ISO image. I mean, a 4.35 GB DVD could be shared in two 2.17,5 GB .RAR files (Maybe DVD.part1.rar and DVD.part2.rar).

Anyway, this is just an idea, nothing else. Thanks for reading and sharing!
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I definately agree with your sentiment Rikter. But it's only a few minutes work to rip the ISO to video folders if someone wanted to strip the nfo out.

Personally I like ISOs. It's harder to accidently lose files that way!
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Win98 is far more susceptible to viruses than 200 or XP, its security is almost non-existent, and there aren't a great deal of viruses that won't infect a 98 machine but will infect a 2000 machine.
The pain and hassles of running 98 vs running XP is quite frankly insane.
At the very least people can dual boot and have an NTFS partition.
Releasing as non image files is a pain, and would inconvenience the bulk of the people out there who run an OS that doesn't have an archaic file system, and only benefit the very few 98/95 users that still exist that run DVD burners...

Seriously, upgrade (or switch to linux if you are strapped for cash, or at least dual boot) and bring yourself into the current century, the water is just fine.
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Originally posted by: JED
A pleasant solution for everyone would be to store the DVDs in splitted .RAR or .ZIP files instread of a single .ISO image. I mean, a 4.35 GB DVD could be shared in two 2.17,5 GB .RAR files (Maybe DVD.part1.rar and DVD.part2.rar).
It's standard practice to split the image into ~94 rar volumes of 50MB each. Although Win98 users would be able to download the volumes, they would still need a NTFS partition to extract the image to!

Here's a better idea: encode the file to a 700MB DivX and share it on Kazaa. That way, all those people running an outdated OS would still be able to download and watch these rips!

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Win98 is far more susceptible to viruses than 200 or XP, its security is almost non-existent, and there aren't a great deal of viruses that won't infect a 98 machine but will infect a 2000 machine.


Yeah, W98 is more susceptible to viruses, but... no new viruses are created for it. And old viruses are long gone. Just try and connect to the internet with W98 (no firewall, no antivirus) and see what happens; noting (I've tried). Then do the same with WXP (turn off the firewall and the antivirus). That's what I meant.

I do know that WXP is more stable than 98, I never tried to say 98 is better, but for some things like using less memory resources, I think 98 is still a good O.S.

Although Win98 users would be able to download the volumes, they would still need a NTFS partition to extract the image to!


I didn't mean to compress the .ISO file in .RAR volumes. I meant to compress the DVD into 2 .RAR volumes (no need of 95) instead of into an .ISO file. In both cases the data contained cannot be altered.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that points; I understand your reasons and I see that most of the people here has no problems with large .ISO files, so that's it. No problem. It was just an idea to make DVDs more shareable (and to be able to download them in first place, of course).

Thanks for your time.
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Moth3r: I don't think that the solution JED suggested was to add the DVD image file into 2 rar files. That would for sure not work. What he suggested was to add the DVD files in 2 rar files, thing that makes sence, since that way 9x/Me users should be able to read the files.

JED: I am sorry if some of the torrents I uploaded were not usable to you. I don't have any problem with my nfo not beeing inclused in reposts, that is not the reason why I uploaded some of my torrents as images. My wish would be for everyone to be able to download and view the torrents I upload. However, if torrenting a DVD as an image, was the DVD creator's will, how could I say "no" to that?

I am not sure if this should work, but I would give it a try:
I think that if you had a partition with Win 2k/XP installed, and booted with it just once, so that you could burn the image file, then you shouldn't experience any problems, even if the image file was stored in a FAT32 formatted partition.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
Releasing as non image files is a pain, and would inconvenience the bulk of the people out there....

?

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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What I meant is it is easier if the file is a disk image than a set of folders as it is ready to burn.
The reason stated for not upgrading (that 98 was more secure against worms and viruses these days) just seemed an odd reason to stay on 98, and didn't sound right.

I'll try setting up the 98 machine unprotected on the web tonight and see how long before it is hit, I'm interested. You could be right, but I can't see why a most current viruses wouldn't run on a 98 machine just as well as on a 2000 machine, but it will be interesting if true.
(The blaster worm didn't affect 98 machines, but I don't know about others)
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Originally posted by: Metallaxis
I am not sure if this should work, but I would give it a try:
I think that if you had a partition with Win 2k/XP installed, and booted with it just once, so that you could burn the image file, then you shouldn't experience any problems, even if the image file was stored in a FAT32 formatted partition.

I don't think it'll work because you can't have a file larger than 4gb on a FAT32 partition.


I don't run any virus checkers/blockers on a permanent basis on this W98 machine and I've only been hit rogue programs 3 times in the past 4 years (I'm very careful what sites I visit, what links I click and what files I run), never lost any data to them just a few hours restoring the Windows directory from a backup & running anti-spyware programs.
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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Originally posted by: Laserman
What I meant is it is easier if the file is a disk image than a set of folders as it is ready to burn. I suppose terms like "easier" and "pain" are too subjective to argue over.
Still, I've download my share of VIDEO_TS directories which I consider "ready to burn",
on the other hand I've also gotten ISO images which are not ready to burn IMHO.
Take Moth3r's for example -- good transfers, but why is the NFO not included inside the image ?
Metallaxis' cover for Moth3r's ANH was completed after initial release, so it's not inside the image either.
I like to burn the NFO and cover onto the disc, so for me the image wasn't "ready to burn".
I also like to include checksums on the discs I burn, but that's a whole 'nother can-o-worms....

And IF I wanted to remove the boilerplate from one of Ritker's offerings,
him releasing it as an image sure wouldn't stop me.

Originally posted by: Laserman
The reason stated for not upgrading (that 98 was more secure against worms and viruses these days) just seemed an odd reason to stay on 98, and didn't sound right.
That line of reasoning seems a bit odd to me as well, but I won't argue for or against Win98.
I will mention that Win98 users aren't the only ones "stuck" with FAT32.
On my laptop I dual-boot Win2000 and Slackware Linux. I've got a 2GB C: drive where Win2K lives, a smallish ext3 partition where linux lives, and a large partition for data, shared by both OSes.
Now linux-2.4 (even the newest Slackware version still ships with 2.4 kernel) can read NTFS, but cannot write to it, so FAT32 is still my best choice for the shared data partition.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

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I don't care about file systems on my computer, but I do have other concerns with DVD image files.

For starters they slow distribution as only the uploader can seed it for starters. If it was torrented as separate files then everyone else with a copy of the disc can help out by seeding.

Also, while it stops some people from not downloading the NFOs and DVD-ROM content (which was Rikter's problem here), it also stops people from downloading the NFOs and DVD-ROM content!! I'm sure I've managed to completely confuse you with that supposed contradiction, but it is really quite simple. I've received discs from a few sources (as most of the week I only have dialup), and sometimes I've found the discs sent to me to be missing this additional content, either because the provider only copied over the movie and not the disc or because they themselves downloaded it from another source missing those files. Now, I could easily fix this problem on my disc before distributing it further if the torrent wasn't an image, I start leeching, it would figure out I have most of the files and only download the small few I need. I could then of course help seed and I can then distribute my copy of the disc.

So I think all ISOs do is make it hard for legit downloaders who want the NFOs, etc, in an effort to stop the untrustworthy. Doesn't work as those few can just delete the files from the image anyway (in an effort to make it a smaller download). What happens when a legit user really keen on redistribution ends up with a copy without the extra files? They can't fix their copy easily so they are forced to send out a ton of discs unfixed... which will of course possibly end up back on other torrent sites! In the end the 'fix' for the problem causes the problem.

Just so you know, this isn't an airy fairy arguement, it is actually the situation I'm in right now. I have a handful of discs I know are missing a couple of files, I already have a couple of PMs here asking for copies of those discs and I'd like to help seed some of them (I do have broadband on weekends). I've been forced to write to all the disc creators to try recover those files, meaning those requesting discs are having to wait (as I won't send them discs without NFOs, even if they don't know what they are).

So yeah, I'm all for no ISOs, speeds legit distribution (which could flood the 'market', meaning a lack of a need for unlegit distribution) and works for users on dodgy computer systems!

[edit]That first sentence actually makes sense now that I added the magic missing word![/edit]

[edit2]Just another thought, what happens in several months when the torrent is dead and then several leechers then want a copy? They would ask on the MySpleen forum of course for a reseed, but I'm just wondering how many people keep the original ISO file around? I know I wouldn't be able to, I'm forever running out of disc space. So FriendlyFred says that he will help out, but can't recreate the exact ISO file so he can't distribute via MySpleen, instead taking it to another torrent site. So it ends up elsewhere not in ISO format, creating the same problem of allowing it to be downloaded with the NFO, or if FriendlyFred isn't the smartest cookie then he may simply not include those files in the torrent to start off with.[/edit2]

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I personally feel it's really up to the uploader how they release a torrent.

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Originally posted by: Rikter
I personally feel it's really up to the uploader how they release a torrent.


Exactly my thoughts as well, I'm not arguing that. I'm just trying to provide info so that you can be completely satisfied with your own distribution choice. I could be completely wrong in my points, which will make it clear for you your choice is correct.

I just wanted you to know it HAS caused issues so far unrelated to file systems.

If I am wrong and ISOs are still the best choice, can you also considered creating additional torrents ONLY containing the DVD-ROM and NFO content for each of your releases? That could be the best of both worlds, though more work for you of course. It also would probably make MySpleen a mess... Hmmm, instead could you possibly set up a stable website for these downloads? I know you have done similar stuff for the missing EditDroid content, though that download URL never worked for me as it had been long dead (according to all the requests in the comments).

By the way, in case you missed it I edited another kah-razy situation into my last post after you replied.

Heck, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If you wish to stay with ISOs I can supply stable webspace for you to upload the extra content to for each release, then just mention that site in NFOs so you don't have to keep on answering requests like in the EditDroid comments.

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THIS REPLY IS NOT DIRECTED OR A REPLY TO ANYONE MESSAGE

All my latest ISO uploads have the DVD-Rom Folder with the NFO in them + the other junk so all you need to do is burn the image, drop it in your dvd-drive and copy and paste the DVD covers and extras onto your HD ~ So by burning the ISO there are NO problems adding NON Standard folders (Extras, Content, DVD-Rom and such) as they are embedded into the ISO and THAT is my concern

- I caught alot of poodoo (about 70 emails and 50 pms on these and myspleen forums JUST for the EditDroid IV DVD aka the Mysterious Mysterious) over the missing EditDroid Content and MOST of the emails insisted that when I copy DVD's that I make them images to keep all the DVD's real contents then upload them as ISO and I really don't understand what problems the ISO's seem to cause some people as I've never once had a problem with them myself when I've downloaded the few discs that are ISO's and there seems to be a connection between those asking for files other then ISO (a VERY, VERY small minority) - and that connection seems to be those that are running on the FAT32 file format (win98 ia a 7 years old OS) and those that are running either MAC, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Linux have no problems at all.

Either way it would honestly seem that NO MATTER what I do or HOW I upload the DVD's (37 DVD total now and about 10 NON DVD uploads either on the torrents, newsgroups via a proxy and on kaaza and the old Napster) there will always be a few that will inevitably complain about either the way I uploaded it and I still get a bunch of emails insisting I only upload XVIDS for torrents and that use Newsgroups for the DVD's (sorry - I'm a very broke stay at home dad and that's just not in the budget) or that they are VIDEO_TS or ISO and I even get emails asking me to FTP them.

- I wish I could do all of these things for you guys and make it simple for EVRYONE to download my torrents but I really do the BEST that I can with what I have...

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Well Rikter, you're my saviour. My own personal Jesus Christ. I love that you don't use newsgroups (not that many people use usegroups compared to bittorrent), and that you usually upload iso files. That way it makes it easier to burn, and you get everything included.
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Originally posted by: Gillean
Heck, I'll put my money where my mouth is. If you wish to stay with ISOs I can supply stable webspace for you to upload the extra content to for each release, then just mention that site in NFOs so you don't have to keep on answering requests like in the EditDroid comments.

First, Thanks for the great offer!

I personally do not have the time for doing something like this (look at how I've not had the time to finish my site!) so if someone else would like to help out and officially team up with me and join BLAKSVN-TORRENTZ please email at my YAHOO address below and we can figure things out.

Second,

For starters they slow distribution as only the uploader can seed it for starters. If it was torrented as separate files then everyone else with a copy of the disc can help out by seeding.


- I create about 75% of the DVD's that I upload so no one else has the discs and only I can seed them so this does NOT affect this at all.

BUT when it's a planned upload from another creator we team up and both (or more) of us will seed or arrange mutiple seeds ahead of time to provide fast uploads SPECIAL THANKS to Metallaxis, The Dark One, ADigitalMan and Babyhum for helping with this!!!




“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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The only problem I see with distributing images as ISOs and rars is that it makes reseeding impossible for anyone who burns the images in DVD-Video format, as the original file is lost (with rared stuff people are also less likely to seed as they have to extract to watch or burn, as most people don't like the idea of having an extra 4 gigabytes taken up for no good reason). Personally, I usually just burn the image files on a data disc, rather then as DVD-Video, as I prefer watching video on my computer monster anyway, so I can reseed most things, but my ratio is already too high as is, so I tend not to reseed things unless no one else can.
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Originally posted by: JED


The main reason I'm staying on W98 is because is less vulnerable to viruses. I mean, people who program viruses do it for WXP or W200, not for oldies like W98.



I work for one the world's largest software companies and leaders in computer security, and my job is virus detection, removal and prevention. I won't mention which company though as you'll all want free software lol But they are involved with F1 Racing :hint hint:

Basically as far as I am concerned Win2000/XP/2003 etc are much more secure operating systems, provided the user has applied all the latest MS patches, password protected their Administrator account (i.e. don't leave this account with a blank password) and have ensured they have no open shares.

Win9x machines are vulnerable to nearly all Win32 platform viruses, but of course like what I assume JED was referring to, there are some specifically targetted at n00b users of the WinNT platform, who have not secured their PC. Some examples are the Blaster, Sasser, Rbot, Agobot etc.

My two cents on an off-topic, but a VERY important topic for all PC users.

RATLSNAKE
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Originally posted by: RATLSNAKE
But [the company I work for is] involved with F1 Racing :hint hint:


With West McLaren Mercedes, right?

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Well, after about 24 hours with no firewall, my 98 machine is now backdoored by someone.
I created a new e-mail address and put it in a couple of newsgroups, and opened all of the e-mail I got back.
It now has 137 infected files with various viruses.

Running any OS online without a firewall and anti-virus checker for e-mail at least is like walking down a dark alley with a packet of cash hanging out you top pocket. You won't always get rolled, but you are asking for it...
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Running any OS online without a firewall and anti-virus checker for e-mail at least is like walking down a dark alley with a packet of cash hanging out you top pocket. You won't always get rolled, but you are asking for it...


I must be a very lucky guy, then. Hehe.

As somebody said, it has been a lot of years without a firewall or an antivirus. And the only problem I had was some spyware or something that made my Explorer go to a certain web page when started, even if I used the "about:blank" option.

I installed anti spyware software and no problem.

I use XP in the PC I use for video editing and DVD recording, but still 98 in the internet connected (a machine much less powerful than the other).
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Oh, and about the main subject, I want to clear something.

Of course uploaders can do whatever they want. WHATEVER. They do it for free and then we don't have the right to force them to do it our way; we would have that right if we paid por it... and we don't.

So my asking was just that. Asking. It was an "It would be better for me (and a few others) if you don't use ISOs; can you do it?", not a "Hey, change your way to upload because it doesn't fit my needs".

By the way, I didn't say it for Rik's uploads. It was just that I saw the new Metallaxis upload and I remember (or remembered? I'm not english, sorry) that when he released Moth3r's A New Hope I wasn't able yo download it. The latest ISOs are small and can be downloaded, but I was worried for future releases.

Anyway, thanks again to all the uploaders for their work. And, hey, if ISO becomes an standard I always can ask the discs by regular mail.