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The Last Jedi: Legendary (Released) — Page 23

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MalàStrana said:

Hal 9000 said:

if Mala is interested in heading up subtitles I wouldn’t complain

That’s fine with me 😉 I’ll just be waiting for the very last version to be locked, since with “newcomers” watching workprint#2 there might be some new useful feedbacks (and a very good idea no one has been thinking about may as well pop up out of the blue).

Very much appreciated, and not taken for granted! And of course, definitely wait for a point at which it is declared ‘locked.’

That’s being said, some quick last feedback and questions :

  • About Canto Bright, I really think some of the balcony scene (yeah, another balcony scene ! me again with balcony scenes…) should be reinstalled, otherwise the whole affair feels way too rushed (the Ivan guy on the tube doing a radical edit of TLJ got it in a way that would fit your edit very well, you should check it to be sure about that; it would just readd something like 30/40 seconds back);

Honestly, and I only bring this up because it is referenced here, I was very much unimpressed with his handling of this sequence. Many of his proposed changes seem myopic to me. In this case, they bother to go onto the balcony only to say, “Gee whiz, fathiers, eh?” with nothing to do with anything else that remains in that version of the movie.

For this project’s version of the sequence, it plays as intentionally “subversive” of your expectations. It sets it up as a big setpiece, and the heroes meet the glamorous codebreaker they were looking for, only to have the rug ripped out from under them and have to meet the stinky codebreaker in jail. In a movie that over and over again “subverts your expectations,” I think it plays well as another instance of exactly that.

  • Is the Holdo/Leia “may the Force be with you” joke gonna be removed ? It felt more as a meta joke to make fun of Star Wars than anything else;

I’ve seen this snipped out of several initial fan edits, but I would personally have a very hard time removing Carrie Fischer’s ironicly bittersweet line, “You go on, I’ve said it enough.” (Similar to her later line, “What are you looking at me for? Follow him!”)

  • I may have missed something but wasn’t the AT-ST run around 1:43:35 considered to be removed ? (I don’t really mind it - there or not there - but I agree it’s a shot which feels off);

I was going to remove it to make the audio transition easier into the deleted scene snippet onboard the shuttle, but without that scene it serves as a bumper well enough, cartoony though it may be. But that was the original reason I removed it, which isn’t there anymore.

  • I still really think that Hux repeating Ren’s orders at 1:55:47 should be removed, as well as the following scene where Ren Force pushes him around 2:03:22. I mean Luke is there and is the central point of the story with Ren, so I don’t think that humor with Hux is needed there at all, it’s over the top and jarring humor at this point and Hux no longer is a character I find interesting/menacing enough to actively take part in this dramatic battle/climax;

There’s no way I would remove Ren smacking him into the wall, as I love that moment. The other moment, to me, seems like a character beat for him. Hux is sucking up to the new boss, same as the old boss, even as he resents him. I did, however, remove Hux echoing Ren’s order to pursue the Falcon. (Seems to me that should be viewed as bad military strategy by Hux, and motivated by Ren’s personal history with it.)

  • I would be in favor of removing the useless and distracting captain obvious scene of the “we’re taking heavy loses” around 1:55:55, in order to stay with the rebel raid (it would also remove a not very subtle call back to the OT rebel sequences in a very talkative movie);

Fair. Can’t say I disagree; I’ll think it over when I can!

  • Would it be possible to keep Rose’s “dummy” after “I saved you” ?

The music is flawless as it is at present, and that wouldn’t be the case if I change anything about the sync of that scene! I like that now she seems slightly delirious before kissing Finn and passing out. Granted, this scene is problematic to tackle no matter what route one would take.

  • At what point in the edit does BB8 bip “I’ve got a bad feeling about that” ? (is there a hard yellow subtitle like the ones you’ve made for the PT ?);

See Ash’s answer; not my change, just RJ’s justification.

  • And since there is currently no better and not jarring solution than keeping the theatrical versions, I’m OK by default with Luke tossing the saber and the terrible Maz caméo (I really wish someone finds a way to fix or trim them !).

Yeah… my thoughts exactly, too.

For what I have seen, the edit works well and can easily replace the official cut without anything giving away its “fanedit” nature, and with around 10 minutes removed and a little handful of good material added, it should get a better pace. Good work guys !

Thanks very much. That’s exactly what I hope for it.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hi Hal,

I’m watching the new work print and it looks great! I love the new deleted scenes and think they pace the beginning much better, and gives us some more good character moments.

I’m glad you brought back Rose’s line about “the vilest people in the galaxy.” It just makes that scene less abrupt and teases Canto Bight / DJ better. Thanks for doing that!

I also found the Wilhelm scream, but I won’t give it away so others can enjoy finding it.

Haven’t finished yet, but I’ll let you know if I have any other thoughts!

Great work!

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Well, I had the chance to watch my own workprint in one sitting tonight. I am happy with it, overall.

I think I’ll need to ruminate (read: hem and haw) about potentially removing Snoke berating Hux at the end of the opening battle, as Mala proposed. Not sure yet. But it might help steer clear of laughing at Star Wars rather than with it.

One idea for sneaking in an honest “I have a bad feeling about this” would be to slip one in by 3PO (from offscreen) right before Leia tells him to wipe a nervous expression off his face, sourced from one of many times I’m sure Anthony Daniels has recorded the line in spinoff material. However, this would likely feel shoehorned in and undercut the existing nice joke.

Luke having a moment works well, and it isn’t overly abrupt to have a few short scenes. The scene with Poe and Finn works well, since we see Leia and Poe separately before they meet and have their argument. It is also nice after all to set up Finn’s standing at the front end of the movie given the cuts made (or even so). You guys were right. While not strictly necessary, I noticed the repeat of music with Luke’s moment and walking out of the tree.

The caretakers being gone feels right. As much as I like their deleted scene, it is better for Luke and Rey to have their falling out after it seems like Luke might actually come around and finally decide to train her, and opening himself back up to the Force which Leia senses. It wouldn’t make as much sense for him to do that unless he was just about to repent and accept his responsibility.

The second act is a bit long and can get a little “”“boring,”"" but only in the same sense as ESB. I feel the absence of the fathier sequence, but only in the same way AOTC’s droid factory sequence. Overall I think it’s a good deletion which helps keep the second act less bloated and topheavy, even if it has a bit less energy.

The removal of the iron gag also robs the second act of some of its steam (pun very much intended) and momentum in that moment, though I plan to leave it as it stands in the workprint. This version of the film isn’t paced any worse off than Empire, it’s just that it’s a 2010’s movie. It seems to lean in the opposite direction of TFA.

Moving the Yoda scene ala Darthrush is my favorite single alteration. Fits perfectly as a bridge between acts 2 and 3.

Finn and Rose’s story arc works fine in this version. The focus is not on them for as much of the movie and their side quest to Canto Bight doesn’t bog down the movie, and the focus is kept on its relation to the main Resistance story. What was cut from Canto Bight would just be one of those things you read about or see in the deleted scenes reel. “Wow, this scene really sheds light onto other moments in the movie but I totally understand and agree with the director cutting it out.”

My stance on revising fan edits.

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darthrush said:

Glad to hear you are happy with your work! I think you really nailed a great balance for your edit and it serves as a perfect edit for people who don’t want something too radical. The only remaining flaw is the repeating music in the Luke deleted scene and the tree scene. I think replacing the music in the Luke scene is probably the best idea.

Debatably, repeating music is not that big a deal. Nearly every other Star Wars movie has done it.

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Just finished workprint 2, and I have to say, I’m very impressed! I do have few questions/suggestions/etc…

  • Luke’s saber toss is a bummer. I remember seeing a clip somewhere in which Luke simply drops the lightsaber at his feet. Is this not doable? The lightsaber completely leaves the frame so maybe all that would be needed would be a sound effect of it hitting the ground? I’m no film editor, so perhaps there’s much more to it, but I remember the clip being fairly convincing.

  • To my surprise, I actually missed the complete introduction of Rose. You removed the fan-girly moment very well, but in the end, I don’t think the edit is necessary. Just a personal preference.

  • During Finn’s “sacrificial moment,” I missed the shot where his ship’s gun peels back from the radiation being emitted by the battering gun. It was at that point in the movie when I realized that Finn wouldn’t be able to fire a shot down the centre of the barrel, therefore making Rose’s interference make a little more sense. I also just thought it was a cool shot.

  • Finally, I would love to see that little speck in the sun disappear during Luke’s final moments. It’s such a minuscule detail, but the first time I watched TLJ, I actually thought a ship was on its way to save Luke at the last second.

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DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Glad to hear you are happy with your work! I think you really nailed a great balance for your edit and it serves as a perfect edit for people who don’t want something too radical. The only remaining flaw is the repeating music in the Luke deleted scene and the tree scene. I think replacing the music in the Luke scene is probably the best idea.

Debatably, repeating music is not that big a deal. Nearly every other Star Wars movie has done it.

That happens pretty rarely. Repeating motifs, yes. Extended use of the exact same material that has already appeared in the movie, not so much; unless it’s for a very specific reason.

It wouldn’t be an issue if the two uses of the same piece were an hour apart, but in this edit it’s only six minutes apart. It was pretty noticeable to me.

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pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Glad to hear you are happy with your work! I think you really nailed a great balance for your edit and it serves as a perfect edit for people who don’t want something too radical. The only remaining flaw is the repeating music in the Luke deleted scene and the tree scene. I think replacing the music in the Luke scene is probably the best idea.

Debatably, repeating music is not that big a deal. Nearly every other Star Wars movie has done it.

That happens pretty rarely. Repeating motifs, yes. Extended use of the exact same material that has already appeared in the movie, not so much; unless it’s for a very specific reason.

That’s a lot less true than you may realize.

It wouldn’t be an issue if the two uses of the same piece were an hour apart, but in this edit it’s only six minutes apart. It was pretty noticeable to me.

In that case, possibly. I haven’t seen the edit so I can’t comment, was more speaking generally.

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Hal 9000 said:

I think I’ll need to ruminate (read: hem and haw) about potentially removing Snoke berating Hux at the end of the opening battle, as Mala proposed. Not sure yet. But it might help steer clear of laughing at Star Wars rather than with it.

I’ve rewatched the opening scene of workprint#2, and this scene really feels like a TESB spoof. Glad you’ll think about removing it ! The prank call removal works well by the way, I nevertheless feel that Hux last “allo?” before Poe’s “push it” could also be removed. But I’m probably nitpicking.

One idea for sneaking in an honest “I have a bad feeling about this” would be to slip one in by 3PO (from offscreen) right before Leia tells him to wipe a nervous expression off his face

Seems cool but wouldn’t it make Leia’s joke less funny ? I would really be in favor of getting a hardcore subtitle when BB8 bips the line (or a softcore subtitle?).

(I’ll add it to a custom subtitle file anyway now that I got the joke 😃 like “it’s a Sith!” strange line in RotJ)

(edit: hum… there might not be enough frames to do so, so bad idea. My bad !)

While not strictly necessary, I noticed the repeat of music with Luke’s moment and walking out of the tree.

I’ll try to think about a score replacement; if I get an idea, I’ll let you know !

The second act is a bit long and can get a little “”“boring,”"" but only in the same sense as ESB.

Maybe removing a few more repetitive moments might help the second act passing ? I don’t remember if there is obvious “fat” that could be easily removed though. It’s slow, but it builds the famous Star Wars montage between all situations like only Lucas was able to do it. The second act might even be the more starwarsie part of the movie imho.

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Side note: have you noticed that Hux speech “the Republic is no more”, stated as if it was a very recent event, actually fits better with TFA:R than with its theatricul cut ? (has Rian Johnson been aware of the restructed project ? 😃)

edit: on the other hand, I’m afraid that the deleted scene with Finn summing up what he missed from the previous film is problematic since he doesn’t mention the Republic being destroyed…

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Just to sum up the current state of the edit:

Implemented in workprint#2

  • Trimmed the opening ‘prank call’ joke to prevent it from venturing into SNL territory while retaining the core of the humor
  • Reinstated the ‘Luke Has a Moment’ deleted scene
  • Reinstated the deleted scene where Poe gives Finn back his jacket (with scene transition provided by OT.com user pleasehello)
  • At their first meeting, removed Finn telling Rose to breathe
  • Removed Rose repeating, “They can track us through lightspeed.“
  • Removed both appearances from the ‘Caretakers’ on Ach-to (with a visual effects shot courtesy of OT.com user snooker)
  • Trimmed away the lone porg who gives Chewie the doughy eyes, though leaving the joke intact otherwise
  • Removed Luke’s line to R2, “Nothing can make me change my mind.”
  • Cut down the first sequence at Canto Bight to focus solely on finding the master codebreaker (also removing sounds of coins rattling around inside BB8 in two shots)
  • Blended the original Anakin lightsaber ignition sound with the existing different sounds for two shots
  • Made it appear as though Finn and Rose follow DJ out of the cell, briefly elude the guards, and the scene ends. Next time we see the trio, they are already in hyperspace (also removing the implication in the later scene that BB8 helped steal the ship).
  • Removed Rey asking Kylo Ren is he has a cowl to put on
  • Added a center wipe transition from the scene with Finn, Rose, and DJ in hyperspace to the fleet losing their medical frigate
  • Used a few shots from a deleted scene to remove the iron/spaceship gag, which borrowed from an old spoof which laughed at Star Wars rather than along with Star Wars
  • Trimmed some of the comedy with BB8 being placed under a basket
  • Trimmed the heavy, direct hinting before Snoke’s death
  • Removed the detail from Kylo Ren that Rey’s parents are buried in the Jakku desert, as this seems at odds with the vision we saw in The Force Awakens.
  • Moved the scene with Luke and Yoda to immediately prior to Leia looking out over Crait (using audio and video provided by OT.com user Darthrush)
  • Removed Finn’s line about the battering ram canon being “old Death Star tech.”
  • The crate Luke sits on as he talks with Leia is now stationary and motionless, unaffected by him (effect provided by OT.com user poppasketti)
    Removed Rey’s triple-TIE combo shot, with the Falcon’s involvement in the battle being first revealed with its shadow swee- ping by and a single TIE being shot down
  • Trimmed Hux ordering fighters to follow the Falcon, leaving this poor tactical move to be attributed to Kylo Ren’s emotional priorities
  • Removed Finn’s line, “Oh, they hate that ship!”
  • Abbreviated Finn’s suicide run, so that the audience hasn’t had enough time to accept it and get totally on board with it (toward the end of a film that relishes jerking its audience around)
  • After Rose saves Finn, removed her line about not “fighting what we hate” and “saving what we love.”
  • Snuck in a Wilhelm scream… somewhere in the movie.

Changes that need to be implemented:

  • Apply DrDre’s LUT to the deleted footage.

Changes considered but not decided yet:

  • Sneaking in an honest “I have a bad feeling about this” would be to slip one in by 3PO (from offscreen)
  • Removing Snoke berating Hux at the end of the opening battle
  • Rescore the Luke deleted scene, but the music fits it much better than the tree scene and the tree scene would be very difficult to rescore (might be okay as is)
  • Sir Ridley’s upcoming augmented Yoda puppetry (postponed anyway)
  • Remove the useless and distracting captain obvious scene of the “we’re taking heavy loses” around 1:55:55, in order to stay with the rebel raid

Other changes that don’t have a convincing way to be implemented yet:

  • Alter Luke tossing the saber (Darthruss has almost found a way to do so, the main issue being if Luke just drops it how would it be explained that the saber is a few shots later so close to the shore ?)
  • Alter Maz caméo (maybe trimming it would be enough, since there is no underscore during that scene and that half of it is off-screen ?)
  • Remove Poe’s “big ass door”

Things that WON’T be altered in this edit (just in case it’s a deal breaker for some folks here):

  • Leia using the Force
  • Luke milking some kind of female alien that was just sitting there (#MeToo)
  • Luke making PT references
  • The ending with the broom kid (maybe find a way to remove the ring close up, even though it fits with Holdo speech about the symbols of the resistance in the galaxy ?)
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I noticed the repeat of the music for the deleted scene. So, I will attempt to rectify this. If you have any ideas, Mala, you would be a good candidate to come up with a good idea, given your other musical tweaks to the PT. Thanks in advance!

AbramPT said:

  • Luke’s saber toss is a bummer. I remember seeing a clip somewhere in which Luke simply drops the lightsaber at his feet. Is this not doable? The lightsaber completely leaves the frame so maybe all that would be needed would be a sound effect of it hitting the ground? I’m no film editor, so perhaps there’s much more to it, but I remember the clip being fairly convincing.

I do genuinely like that Luke throws the saber, echoing ROTJ’s saber toss in a meaningful way. I just don’t like the comic manner in which it was executed. I love the ‘alternate take’ seen in the bonus material, it’s just too bad we don’t have it framed in such a way as could actually be used seamlessly.

  • To my surprise, I actually missed the complete introduction of Rose. You removed the fan-girly moment very well, but in the end, I don’t think the edit is necessary. Just a personal preference.

Rose in this edit no longer appears “deliberately out of place in a Star Wars movie.” At least, that’s the idea. Removing her “doing talking” “The Office” moment here helps with that. Given Finn’s ego, I think it’s okay to have him jump straight to, “Look, I’m not a hero, but thanks.”

  • During Finn’s “sacrificial moment,” I missed the shot where his ship’s gun peels back from the radiation being emitted by the battering gun. It was at that point in the movie when I realized that Finn wouldn’t be able to fire a shot down the centre of the barrel, therefore making Rose’s interference make a little more sense. I also just thought it was a cool shot.

Fair point! I will see if that can be put back without having to go back to the extended build-up to the moment of “subverting our expectation.”

  • Finally, I would love to see that little speck in the sun disappear during Luke’s final moments. It’s such a minuscule detail, but the first time I watched TLJ, I actually thought a ship was on its way to save Luke at the last second.

I would, too. Can anyone do that? I imagine it’s pretty easy.

MalàStrana said:

Side note: have you noticed that Hux speech “the Republic is no more”, stated as if it was a very recent event, actually fits better with TFA:R than with its theatricul cut ? (has Rian Johnson been aware of the restructed project ? 😃)

That occurred to me as well. Happy accident.

edit: on the other hand, I’m afraid that the deleted scene with Finn summing up what he missed from the previous film is problematic since he doesn’t mention the Republic being destroyed…

Nah, Finn was clearly summing up the positive things to happen, leading up to asking, “So why doesn’t this feel like winning?” Plus, the Republic was destroyed while he was busy and then he was knocked out. Either way, it’s all right.

MalàStrana said:

Changes that need to be implemented:

  • Apply DrDre’s LUT to the deleted footage.

Not to the deleted footage, but the whole film.

Changes considered but not decided yet:

  • Sneaking in an honest “I have a bad feeling about this” would be to slip one in by 3PO (from offscreen)

Most likely not.

Other changes that don’t have a convincing way to be implemented yet:

  • Alter Luke tossing the saber (Darthruss has almost found a way to do so, the main issue being if Luke just drops it how would it be explained that the saber is a few shots later so close to the shore ?)

See earlier comment in this post.

  • Alter Maz caméo (maybe trimming it would be enough, since there is no underscore during that scene and that half of it is off-screen ?)

Probably not. If it’s there at all, may as well let it be. Not cutting the sex joke either!

  • Remove Poe’s “big ass door”

This was a small thing that bothered me. But whatever.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Here’s a quick attempt at a cover based on Sherman’s design for TFA:R. I’d need a little blurb for the back. I can whip this up if you’d like, or we can see what others submit.

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Hal 9000 said:

I noticed the repeat of the music for the deleted scene. So, I will attempt to rectify this. If you have any ideas, Mala, you would be a good candidate to come up with a good idea, given your other musical tweaks to the PT. Thanks in advance!

During the tree scene I think it’s impossible to change the score (because of the dialogues). Sole possibility is indeed the moment scene, assuming losing the - slight - audio effets would not be an issue (so the score would need to go back to “normal” for the Leia scene, so only a score replacement from around 0:20:57 to 0:21:14… very tricky to say the least ! a 20 seconds motif to fit the mood). Could you post (or PM) the uncompressed 5.1 audio file of this section (let’s say from 0:20:30 to 0:21:30), that way if I (or anyone else) get an idea we could work on a compliant edit version ? (with video it would be better - no need for uncompressed video)

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By the way, is there a picture comparaison of DrDre LUT applied on TLJ ? (just curious to see the difference it would make)

edit: and nice cover ! Fits with the one created for TFA:R.

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Maybe for the rescore of the Luke deleted scene it could be the “sadder” music that plays from TFA when the Resistance gets back to the base. To better define it, the music playing when Rey and Leia hug and then it cuts to sad Chewie.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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I was thinking about a motif from the first part of Torn Apart. It sounds the same albeit differently from the except used in the deleted scene.

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natedeug said:

Here’s a quick attempt at a cover based on Sherman’s design for TFA:R. I’d need a little blurb for the back. I can whip this up if you’d like, or we can see what others submit.

Not bad at all! I appreciate you doing that. For a blurb, perhaps something like:

“This conservative reworking of Star Wars: The Last Jedi clears away some of the distractions from taking in the story Rian Johnson brings to the table. It will have you laughing along with Star Wars, rather than at it. The trip to the casino of Canto Bight is truncated, the Caretakers of Ach-To are removed, and a few scenes are rearranged to allow the film’s substance to shine. Strap in for a contemplative journey not experienced since The Empire Strikes Back.”

That might need some tweaking, as I am not mentally all that focused at the moment!

MalàStrana said:

During the tree scene I think it’s impossible to change the score (because of the dialogues). Sole possibility is indeed the moment scene, assuming losing the - slight - audio effets would not be an issue (so the score would need to go back to “normal” for the Leia scene, so only a score replacement from around 0:20:57 to 0:21:14… very tricky to say the least ! a 20 seconds motif to fit the mood). Could you post (or PM) the uncompressed 5.1 audio file of this section (let’s say from 0:20:30 to 0:21:30), that way if I (or anyone else) get an idea we could work on a compliant edit version ? (with video it would be better - no need for uncompressed video)

Yes, the audio would be very tricky, and I am okay if this simply cannot be done.
Here’s the raw Luke has a Moment scene: https://drive.google.com/open?id=12vJZ5jfd43QRUE0c0Fqp6EvQ8Vif4lQT

MalàStrana said:

By the way, is there a picture comparaison of DrDre LUT applied on TLJ ? (just curious to see the difference it would make)

See the thread in the Preservations section! It’s a subtle but nice difference.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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AbramPT said:

  • Finally, I would love to see that little speck in the sun disappear during Luke’s final moments. It’s such a minuscule detail, but the first time I watched TLJ, I actually thought a ship was on its way to save Luke at the last second.

Hal 9000 said:

I would, too. Can anyone do that? I imagine it’s pretty easy.

Did someone say easy?!

How’s this: https://vimeo.com/271196844 (pw: fanedit)

(Hal, if you wouldn’t mind, could you send me a prores file of just this shot? I did this tweak off of your work print file.)

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Here is my take on the rescoring of the “Luke Has A Moment” deleted scene:

Link: https://vimeo.com/271201867
Password: fanedit

The track I used is from The Force Awakens, “Farewell - The Trip” starting at 1:38 when Luke closes the door and cutting when the Leia scene picks up. It fits PERFECTLY IMO and I think this works extremely well, especially using Han and Leia’s theme to solidify that the focus is on mourning Han.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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poppasketti said:

(Hal, if you wouldn’t mind, could you send me a prores file of just this shot? I did this tweak off of your work print file.)

Very nice! Yes, indeed I will. However, I just started something unrelated to this edit which will occupy my main computer for just a little bit. It’ll be a maximum of perhaps two days, but I’ll get that to you!

DZ-330 said:

Here is my take on the rescoring of the “Luke Has A Moment” deleted scene:

I don’t think it fits to use the Han/Leia love theme for Luke mourning Han. Leia, yes, but Luke’s moment should have something else. Not a bad mockup, though!

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

Here’s the raw Luke has a Moment scene, with crappy video: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wy4lF0FfcaPTv5tGvkQ8vM7SuGBb1O3C

Hum… not very complete scene 😉 Is the audio from the workprint#2 in enough good quality to work with? (edit: nah, it’s only 2.0. I guess the final export will be in 5.1, could you make an export for this part in 5.1 ?) I think that Torn Apart contains many excepts that could fit the mood and be logical to the fact Luke is mourning Han. I’ll try to mock something up this evening.

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That clip should have six audio stream, one for each channel. If you import it into an editor you should see them all, but if you play the file elsewhere it’ll probably just play track one which is the left front channel.

My stance on revising fan edits.