Religion — Page 110

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, I think keeping a comatose person alive for years with no hope of a solution is inhumane.

I mean a comatose person who will definitely wake up. Someone who is completely unconscious but will eventually recover. According to your own words, killing that person (not ‘pulling the plug’) while they sleep is not actually murder.

Mrebo said:

Setting aside poor phrasing that seems to run counter to what Dek is saying, Dek’s point makes plenty sense when understood that he is speaking about the moral value of a life.

To illustrate, miscarriage is common in pregnancy and usually occurs fairly early on. Losing a child at 6 weeks is painful. I think losing at several months would feel worse. I don’t know that either of those compares to losing a child at 14 years old. That’s not to say that each life has a different moral weight, but the sense of loss seems greater for different situations. In the “[fill in the blank] Just Died!” thread there was discussion of it being basically ‘worse’ when a young person dies. I think that’s the thinking that caused Dek to fall into that poor phrasing while trying to talk about moral value of life. He tried to recognize the reality of those feelings while trying to stick to his point.

Yeah, that seems about right.

Dek Rollins said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, I think keeping a comatose person alive for years with no hope of a solution is inhumane.

I mean a comatose person who will definitely wake up. Someone who is completely unconscious but will eventually recover. According to your own words, killing that person (not ‘pulling the plug’) while they sleep is not actually murder.

That’s actually the opposite of my own words. If there’s reason to believe he could wake up, then yes that’s murder.

But they aren’t conscious, and only conscious individuals are worth anything, right? It doesn’t matter if that person will be conscious and part of society in due time, they aren’t conscious right now, so you can just get rid of them if you want.

They also are a developed individual.

TV’s Frink said:

Nah, just a comment on how grouchy you seem some days.

I never outgrew mood swings.

Probably applies to me as well.

#truth

What about people with developmental disabilities? They’ll never be able to develop fully, so maybe we should just kill them.

EDIT: I’m not trying to compare disabled people to an unborn fetus, I’m just trying to make heads and tails of this hypocritical stance on what counts as a person.

moviefreakedmind said:

Dek Rollins said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, I think keeping a comatose person alive for years with no hope of a solution is inhumane.

I mean a comatose person who will definitely wake up. Someone who is completely unconscious but will eventually recover. According to your own words, killing that person (not ‘pulling the plug’) while they sleep is not actually murder.

That’s actually the opposite of my own words. If there’s reason to believe he could wake up, then yes that’s murder.

I think I posted this in a thread recently: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/brain-dead-boy-wakes-up-a-day-before-doctors-set-to-pull-life-10213204

Every so often I see these stories of someone considered brain dead and they’re ready to pull the plug and then they’re alive and well.

With a fetus you know it’s going to become conscious, absent some tragedy. So allowing for ending its life early on, knowing it IS going to ‘wake up,’ seems hard to distinguish, logically, from someone on life support that you know or suspect will wake up.

Also, what about people who are just vegetables? Should they be euthanized?

You know why my stance sounds hypocritical? It’s because there is no definitive answer.

Dek Rollins said:

Also, what about people who are just vegetables? Should they be euthanized?

I would definitely want to be if I were. Like I said though, there is no definitive answer.

Possessed said:

Dek Rollins said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, I think keeping a comatose person alive for years with no hope of a solution is inhumane.

I mean a comatose person who will definitely wake up. Someone who is completely unconscious but will eventually recover. According to your own words, killing that person (not ‘pulling the plug’) while they sleep is not actually murder.

If you think somebody who is knocked out is the same as a mass of cells that don’t even resemble a person are the same then you are a pure and unabashed idiot.

How? That mass of cells will resemble a person in six months. What’s the difference? An infant doesn’t look like an adult. Does that make it not human?

moviefreakedmind said:

there is no definitive answer.

That’s pretty much the point. For everyone who doesn’t see a definitive answer, isn’t it better to be safe than sorry? Generally speaking.

Not when we’re talking about very early abortions.

Like I said, this wouldn’t be as big a problem if we had comprehensive sex-ed and free birth control.

Possessed said:

Dek Rollins said:

Possessed said:

Dek Rollins said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, I think keeping a comatose person alive for years with no hope of a solution is inhumane.

I mean a comatose person who will definitely wake up. Someone who is completely unconscious but will eventually recover. According to your own words, killing that person (not ‘pulling the plug’) while they sleep is not actually murder.

If you think somebody who is knocked out is the same as a mass of cells that don’t even resemble a person are the same then you are a pure and unabashed idiot.

How? That mass of cells will resemble a person in six months. What’s the difference?

Because we aren’t talking about in six months?

By this line of thinking masturbation is murder because that sperm COULD have fertilized an egg down the line.

I’ve already discussed wasted sperm. Sperm, and likewise, an egg, is not a person. It is a selective piece that creates the person, but it is not a growing human child. Sperm and eggs are wasted all the time, whether masturbation or unused items when a pregnancy occurs. That’s not killing a growing human being after conception of the child has occurred. The sperm is not a single human being that has begun growing to maturity. A conceived fetus at 6-weeks is.

Possessed said:

Dek Rollins said:

Possessed said:

Dek Rollins said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, I think keeping a comatose person alive for years with no hope of a solution is inhumane.

I mean a comatose person who will definitely wake up. Someone who is completely unconscious but will eventually recover. According to your own words, killing that person (not ‘pulling the plug’) while they sleep is not actually murder.

If you think somebody who is knocked out is the same as a mass of cells that don’t even resemble a person are the same then you are a pure and unabashed idiot.

How? That mass of cells will resemble a person in six months. What’s the difference?

Because we aren’t talking about in six months?

By this line of thinking masturbation is murder because that sperm COULD have fertilized an egg down the line.

That comparison makes no sense. A fetus - absent a tragedy - will “resemble” a person. That is a very different kind of potentiality.

And those people should still get a shot at life. There are buttloads of actual successful people who started from literal crap.

Collipso said:

how about a comatose person who’s going to wake up and be so mistreated by their family and the rest of society that they’ll never get a job and become depressed and turn to crime asap because it’s the easiest way to ‘succeed’ in life? pretty sure that’d be the situation with several unborn children.

I guess we put a pillow over their face before we have to worry about them overcoming their bad deeds and accepting Jesus.

Dek Rollins said:

And those people should still get a shot at life. There are buttloads of actual successful people who started from literal crap.

I think you underestimate how miserable the average person is.