Religion — Page 101

chyron8472 said:

Possessed said:

Polytheistic religions just seeing multiple advanced beings and calling them all gods because thats how they interpret them, and the one God most believe in May well just be one of them.

In fact, Paul went to Rome, where they had a monument to the “unknown god”, just to hedge their bets to make sure they didn’t leave any god(s) out at risk of angering them, and he told them that that god is actually God Himself.

JEDIT: Wait, I read your post wrong. You’re saying the ancient polytheistic gods might have existed and if so been like the Stargate Goa’uld?

Ah yes, The Stargate documentaries were great.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The latter part regarding the misogyny and anti-gay stuff is the kind of religiosity I’m referring to when I say that we shouldn’t be expected to respect religion. If you think that homosexuality is a crime against god, then I don’t respect your opinion and I don’t think that anyone should respect your opinion. If you believe women shouldn’t be allowed to drive, or should be forced to wrap themselves in burkas and other oppressive garb, then I don’t respect your opinion. The list goes on and on. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I find all of those individuals that think that way to be totally unworthy of respect, but their religious views are. I don’t think that that’s unreasonable and no one else should either.

If I’m allowed to play devil’s advocate (guess chyron needs new representation), it wasn’t long ago that the consensus thought oppositely: that accepting gender norm heresies meant one’s opinion didn’t deserve respect.

The tables have turned on religion, at least in most Western countries, but how are we to grapple with “truth” in an objective way? Is it all about consensus?

How about just letting people live their lives?

People generally don’t do that. They enjoy poking in other peoples’ business and telling them how to think. …Members of this forum are also not exempt.

There’s a big difference between telling you that your opinion on X movie is silly and telling suspiciouscoffee that he shouldn’t be gay because it’s a sin against God and he’s going to hell unless he “converts.”

Yes, there’s a difference between [being civil about] X, and [being mean about] Y. And, speaking for myself, I haven’t said that about coffee. In fact, I have said the reverse—that it’s not directly about the following of rules and that Jesus himself vehemently chastized such self-righteous people.

But people even on this forum often don’t just stop at saying opposing view in general is “silly”. The TLJ Review Thread is evidence enough of that. And that’s my point. Correlation does not imply causation.

There’s no relation or comparison between how religion often treats people different than themselves, and how people act in the TLJ Review Thread. None.

Just because you do not acknowledge the comparison as evidence that people in general can be mean-spirited, that doesn’t mean there isn’t one to be made.

I give up.

No please, don’t.

ZigZig said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The latter part regarding the misogyny and anti-gay stuff is the kind of religiosity I’m referring to when I say that we shouldn’t be expected to respect religion. If you think that homosexuality is a crime against god, then I don’t respect your opinion and I don’t think that anyone should respect your opinion. If you believe women shouldn’t be allowed to drive, or should be forced to wrap themselves in burkas and other oppressive garb, then I don’t respect your opinion. The list goes on and on. It doesn’t necessarily mean that I find all of those individuals that think that way to be totally unworthy of respect, but their religious views are. I don’t think that that’s unreasonable and no one else should either.

If I’m allowed to play devil’s advocate (guess chyron needs new representation), it wasn’t long ago that the consensus thought oppositely: that accepting gender norm heresies meant one’s opinion didn’t deserve respect.

The tables have turned on religion, at least in most Western countries, but how are we to grapple with “truth” in an objective way? Is it all about consensus?

How about just letting people live their lives?

People generally don’t do that. They enjoy poking in other peoples’ business and telling them how to think. …Members of this forum are also not exempt.

There’s a big difference between telling you that your opinion on X movie is silly and telling suspiciouscoffee that he shouldn’t be gay because it’s a sin against God and he’s going to hell unless he “converts.”

Yes, there’s a difference between [being civil about] X, and [being mean about] Y. And, speaking for myself, I haven’t said that about coffee. In fact, I have said the reverse—that it’s not directly about the following of rules and that Jesus himself vehemently chastized such self-righteous people.

But people even on this forum often don’t just stop at saying opposing view in general is “silly”. The TLJ Review Thread is evidence enough of that. And that’s my point. Correlation does not imply causation.

There’s no relation or comparison between how religion often treats people different than themselves, and how people act in the TLJ Review Thread. None.

Just because you do not acknowledge the comparison as evidence that people in general can be mean-spirited, that doesn’t mean there isn’t one to be made.

I give up.

No please, don’t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUm5-1x1LfA

darthrush said:

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

Possessed said:

TV’s Frink said:

Possessed said:

Well it’s like I said the Bible was written by men thousands of years ago so you can’t really take much of what it says literally. I don’t care much for the Bible, that doesn’t mean I can’t believe in God.

Of course you can believe in God. It just doesn’t make you right. Or wrong. You’re just guessing along with everyone else with an opinion on it.

Obviously

I know but some people think it’s not only not obvious, it’s in fact wrong.

Bet chyron thinks the existence of God is obvious.

To me.

Sure. But assuming you don’t think yourself specially endowed with God sensing power, it’s something that could be obvious to anyone. They just have to know where to look.

Yes.

The Bible says the Spirit reveals the truth of God, and that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who don’t believe because they rely solely on miracles and the wisdom of man.

So if someone wanted God to reveal Himself to them, He will—but by His Spirit, not because we are wise.

How about people who have very similar spiritual revelations but for a different god than you believe in? Were they not as sincere in their spiritual experience? Why would god let him someone experience something that feels just as real as a believer in him?

What I’m getting at, is that spiritual experiences are entirely subjective, and since people get different answers, how can there be one true god?

Possessed said:

Different religions, different interpretations and opinions of varying degrees of accuracy, same God. Polytheistic religions just seeing multiple advanced beings and calling them all gods because thats how they interpret them, and the one God most believe in May well just be one of them.

(My opinion)

Mrebo said:

I’ve entertained the possibility that peoples’ different deitities may be their own imperfect way of seeking to understand God. Seems plausible. Then there are those who recognize there is God but decide they’re going to worship a golden cow, which is a different animal.

To darthrush’s point, all of our experience is subjective but that doesn’t mean there isn’t in fact one true God.

The parable of the blind men and the elephant succinctly sums up the religious/theistic experience, I think.

An article on hyperbolic language in the Bible:

http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/hyperbole2.htm

“How Hell Became Eternal”, from the same site:

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/how_hell_became_eternal_vincent.htm

Trident said:

I think the problem sums up about like this.

If you’re a guy who really really believes that someone’s gonna go to hell because of a thing they’re doing there’s a pretty big problem about just keeping that religious view in your own pocket. I mean if you do that it means 1 of 2 things. Either you don’t actually believe it? Or you actually don’t care.

The other thing’s that a lot believe that God wants us to get in each other’s business. That God wants us to spread the message and save the sinners. So ignoring that job seems like a bad idea when God’s gonna look over your ledger after you die. So it kind of makes sense that a guy who really believes wouldn’t really just keep his religion to himself and look the other way.

I’m a guy who thinks it’s pretty shitty to think that someone is going to hell because they’re gay or because they don’t believe Jesus was resurrected, just to pick two.

Do you guys think you go to hell if you commit suicide? Asking for a friend

C’mon, man.

Possessed said:

Do you guys think you go to hell if you commit suicide? Asking for a friend

I don’t know if I go to hell if I commit suicide, but I’m sure that my my few friends who committed suicide knew hell on earth and deserve a place in paradise -if there is a paradise…

But come on Possessed, there is no reason to commit suicide before SW Episode IX 😃

DuracellEnergizer said:

An article on hyperbolic language in the Bible:

http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/hyperbole2.htm

“How Hell Became Eternal”, from the same site:

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/how_hell_became_eternal_vincent.htm

Thank you DuracellEnergizer, these articles are extremely interesting !

If you’re so shitty that you actually believe that, it doesn’t somehow make you any better for trying to “help” that person. Ship has already sailed.

Hmmm…you believe different than I do? Ok, you’re going to be tortured forever after you die.

Oh, and that other guy who led a terrible life, raped, robbed, murdered, kicked puppies and pushed down old ladies, but accepted Jesus as his savior right at the end? He’s a better person than you are.

Nah, doesn’t seem like a shitty belief system at all.

Dek Rollins said:

It’s pretty shitty to act as if I’m choosing my belief system based on some kind of moral criteria rather than discovering the truth for myself.

You are choosing your belief system. Your reason for choosing it is irrelevant.

I go to hell, murderer doesn’t. What a fucked up “truth.”

moviefreakedmind said:

I think it’s shitty to accept something so obviously objectionable. If we had a dictator that was executing or torturing people for thought crimes and only spared those that worshiped him, I’d admire people that, even though they knew this tyrant could destroy them, chose to not bow before him. So, to me, even if this is the truth it’s still shitty to accept it as anything other than repugnant.

Dictators are only bad if you can prove they exist.