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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 255

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dahmage said:

Ryan-SWI said:

Jay said:

TLJ has none of that mystery because it picks up literally where the previous installment leaves off, and that’s J.J.'s fault because he just had to have his dramatic ending and couldn’t tell a complete story

I really, really disagree with that and I don’t understand why its become such a common argument for TLJ.

Rian wasn’t forced into anything by JJ,

Rian was definitely forced to do certain things based on the way things had played out in TFA,

Ok. 😋

I guess it might have been interesting to do a time Jump. But so much of what was alluded to the end of TFA would have had to have been just ignored that I can’t imagine people would have been happy.

I mean… So much was already ignored from TFA so what’s one more thing?

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I haven’t actually seen TLJ, but I can’t even imagine how jarring a time jump would be given the way TFA ends.

The Person in Question

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Ryan-SWI said:

Jay said:

TLJ has none of that mystery because it picks up literally where the previous installment leaves off, and that’s J.J.'s fault because he just had to have his dramatic ending and couldn’t tell a complete story

Rian wasn’t forced into anything by JJ, especially not making TLJ to pick up right where TFA left off, mere seconds later.

Rian was definitely forced to do certain things based on the way things had played out in TFA, but a lack of a time jump isn’t one of them.

moviefreakedmind said:

I haven’t actually seen TLJ, but I can’t even imagine how jarring a time jump would be given the way TFA ends.

Pretty much this right here. The style of the scene set the expectation that the audience would be shown what happens next. As I mentioned in my earlier review, I actually enjoyed Luke’s saber toss because it was like Rian thumbing his nose at the overdone cliffhanger.

And don’t get me started on what TLJ ignored from TFA. All we heard from cough apologists cough after TFA was that all the mysteries were a big setup for some great reveals in the next installment. The truth is likely that J.J. had no idea what any of those reveals should be (again, he likes throwing a lot of balls in the air and letting other people catch them) and Rian had no desire to be saddled with filling in all those holes.

Killing the past seemed to be not just Kylo’s driving force, but Rian’s. Setting aside some of the junk storytelling in TFA provided a few of the best moments in TLJ.

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“Apologists” reminds me of the previously used term that I can’t even remember anymore that was supposedly either neutral or positive, when it clearly wasn’t being used that way. If you want the discussions to remain civil you should probably avoid loaded terms like that.

Beyond that, I wasn’t aware resolution was required in the middle installment of a trilogy. And beyond that, while I personally hope we do get resolution on some of these mysteries, it won’t ruin my enjoyment of the films if we don’t.

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DominicCobb said:

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I haven’t actually seen TLJ

Out of curiosity, why?

Not everyone likes watching things they know they’ll hate.

This is more or less my reasoning, but I don’t know that I’d hate it. I have not liked what I’ve heard and I don’t particularly care about the story the ST is telling, so it’s more just that I don’t have any desire to sink two hours into something I have no interest in.

The Person in Question

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TV’s Frink said:

“Apologists” reminds me of the previously used term that I can’t even remember anymore that was supposedly either neutral or positive, when it clearly wasn’t being used that way. If you want the discussions to remain civil you should probably avoid loaded terms like that.

Beyond that, I wasn’t aware resolution was required in the middle installment of a trilogy. And beyond that, while I personally hope we do get resolution on some of these mysteries, it won’t ruin my enjoyment of the films if we don’t.

Actually I’m pretty sure it was apologist.

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Jay said:

Ryan-SWI said:

Jay said:

TLJ has none of that mystery because it picks up literally where the previous installment leaves off, and that’s J.J.'s fault because he just had to have his dramatic ending and couldn’t tell a complete story

Rian wasn’t forced into anything by JJ, especially not making TLJ to pick up right where TFA left off, mere seconds later.

Rian was definitely forced to do certain things based on the way things had played out in TFA, but a lack of a time jump isn’t one of them.

moviefreakedmind said:

I haven’t actually seen TLJ, but I can’t even imagine how jarring a time jump would be given the way TFA ends.

Pretty much this right here. The style of the scene set the expectation that the audience would be shown what happens next. As I mentioned in my earlier review, I actually enjoyed Luke’s saber toss because it was like Rian thumbing his nose at the overdone cliffhanger.

And don’t get me started on what TLJ ignored from TFA. All we heard from cough apologists cough after TFA was that all the mysteries were a big setup for some great reveals in the next installment. The truth is likely that J.J. had no idea what any of those reveals should be (again, he likes throwing a lot of balls in the air and letting other people catch them) and Rian had no desire to be saddled with filling in all those holes.

Killing the past seemed to be not just Kylo’s driving force, but Rian’s. Setting aside some of the junk storytelling in TFA provided a few of the best moments in TLJ.

I think that while Rian pretty much had to finish this scene, there was no reason he couldn’t have focused on Rey’s story and her lessons for a substantial amount of time before getting back to the spaceship chase plot. It would have solved the problem of the time jump for me, as well as building suspense for the plight of our other heroes as we and Rey get a fragmentary understanding of their danger through her communication with Kylo.

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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Possessed said:

TV’s Frink said:

“Apologists” reminds me of the previously used term that I can’t even remember anymore that was supposedly either neutral or positive, when it clearly wasn’t being used that way. If you want the discussions to remain civil you should probably avoid loaded terms like that.

Beyond that, I wasn’t aware resolution was required in the middle installment of a trilogy. And beyond that, while I personally hope we do get resolution on some of these mysteries, it won’t ruin my enjoyment of the films if we don’t.

Actually I’m pretty sure it was apologist.

Was it? Lol. Regardless, Jay knows it’s a loaded term and IMO if he wants to be consistent he shouldn’t use it.

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TV’s Frink said:

Possessed said:

TV’s Frink said:

“Apologists” reminds me of the previously used term that I can’t even remember anymore that was supposedly either neutral or positive, when it clearly wasn’t being used that way. If you want the discussions to remain civil you should probably avoid loaded terms like that.

Beyond that, I wasn’t aware resolution was required in the middle installment of a trilogy. And beyond that, while I personally hope we do get resolution on some of these mysteries, it won’t ruin my enjoyment of the films if we don’t.

Actually I’m pretty sure it was apologist.

Was it? Lol. Regardless, Jay knows it’s a loaded term and IMO if he wants to be consistent he shouldn’t use it.

It was a joke, hence the cough cough.

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That’s now what I thought the cough meant. Next time a winky might express that it’s a joke better.

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TV’s Frink said:

That’s now what I thought the cough meant. Next time a winky might express that it’s a joke better.

What, are you too stupid to know that coughing means it was a joke? Ridiculous.

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Possessed said:

TV’s Frink said:

That’s now what I thought the cough meant. Next time a winky might express that it’s a joke better.

What, are you too stupid to know that coughing means it was a joke? Ridiculous.

I’d report you but since you’re the second person to call me stupid today, the first being Mala, I guess I have to concede that it’s true.

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Ryan-SWI said:

Jay said:

TLJ has none of that mystery because it picks up literally where the previous installment leaves off, and that’s J.J.'s fault because he just had to have his dramatic ending and couldn’t tell a complete story

I really, really disagree with that and I don’t understand why its become such a common argument for TLJ.

Rian wasn’t forced into anything by JJ, especially not making TLJ to pick up right where TFA left off, mere seconds later.

There was no reason Rian couldn’t have done a time jump, and he should have. Even if by only a month or two; the time jump between TPM and AOTC was 10 years and it benefited greatly from it from a storytelling perspective. Literally every other Star Wars film has had a time jump. Yes JJ put in a cliffhanger ending instead of rounding it off, but the story still could have gone in any direction.

Rian was definitely forced to do certain things based on the way things had played out in TFA, but a lack of a time jump isn’t one of them.

I wouldn’t say he was forced to write a certain way because of what J.J. did, I just think that J.J. left things so open-ended that Rian was allowed too much leeway to take liberties with things and it leaves the two movies feeling a bit disconnected.

Had J.J. laid down some more concrete foundations and had anyone actually had a plan as to where the saga was going to go and where it would end up, it would all make more sense.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

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Like George’s master plan for the OT and PT? 😉

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Where were you in '77?

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Yeah, Star Wars has always made everything up as it went along. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, you just have to follow up your pre-established concepts and ideas (e.g. “No, there is another,” or “You fought in the Clone Wars?”) intelligently, and not terribly (e.g. “Leia is my sister!” or Attack of the Clones).

The Person in Question

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I’m not saying there’s a precedent, just that you’d expect them to establish some sort of Marvel Cinematic Universe-esque “Guiding Hand” to ensure that the franchise they paid 4.5 billion dollars for doesn’t come out a total mess.

It’s ballsy. But so far I’m not impressed.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

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 (Edited)

Star Wars movies aren’t building up to anything. It’s not an interconnected universe in the same way Marvel is (I mean it is, but not in the same way Marvel is chronological and has constant crossovers). And even with Marvel, there is a lot of leeway given to filmmakers in what stories are told, even if they affect later installments.

And there is a guiding hand, Kathleen Kennedy. She’s just decided she doesn’t want to hamper filmmakers with plans laid out by other filmmakers. Each film should stand on its own and tell its own story. It shouldn’t exist for the sole purpose of being a sequel or setting up a sequel. The level of success they’ve managed is up for debate but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the methodology.

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Saw TLJ at the cinema, midnight showing and whilst there were really good bits, the silly humour seemed to stand out too much. So I purchased a 4TB Hard Drive in preperation for doing a re-edit. Had grand designs to remove large portions of the opening battle even. So I settled down to watch it again tonight with the missus and…I bloody well loved it! Have some of the edits been tweaked? Been toned down from the theatrical somehow?

To be honest I actually enjoyed it more than The Force Awakens(which I love) because of the sheer depth it adds to the star wars mythos. Absolute cracking film and kinda ashamed I hated it so much. Maybe sleep deprived midnight showings are not the answer lol

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 (Edited)

I actually felt like the jokes felt less well… jokey watching at home. Probably because there was no audience laughter. But that also means people enjoyed them at the time, before I heard any negativity. Other things also “felt” different, least of all the visuals of the movie were less striking on the smaller screen.

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SteveE said:

Saw TLJ at the cinema, midnight showing and whilst there were really good bits, the silly humour seemed to stand out too much. So I purchased a 4TB Hard Drive in preperation for doing a re-edit. Had grand designs to remove large portions of the opening battle even. So I settled down to watch it again tonight with the missus and…I bloody well loved it! Have some of the edits been tweaked? Been toned down from the theatrical somehow?

Nope.

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

The style of the scene set the expectation that the audience would be shown what happens next.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything you’ve said, but that I do. Looking at it again I can see that perspective on it, thanks for opening my eyes a bit on that aspect in particular.

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Mielr said:

ChainsawAsh said:
The way Luke actually died. For no fucking reason. At all.

Not. Fucking. Cool. Rian.

My nephew and I were discussing this…why DID he die? Did he use up all his life force when he astral projected? I mean, WTF?

I’m sure Official Lucasfilm product holds some convoluted explanation, but the real reason he died is because of an agenda that is best explained by Kylo Ren - “Kill the Past” - Make Han and Luke abandon their responsibilities and have Leia be the only responsible one even though that whole narrative goes against everything we know about Luke and Han. Too bad Carrie Fisher’s poor life choices won’t allow that narrative to further play out. I feel bad for Mark, he actually took care of himself and wanted to deliver something the fans would love - and they gave him…this…

The movie is a bit like if Zac Snyder had made a Star Wars film - well not as extreme, but Johnson and Snyder are from the same school of thought. Can you imagine? Zac is all about deconstructing beloved characters and narratives the fans enjoy and turning all that “past” stuff on its head - “Kill the Past” - just like his DC films. It would’ve been a little more extreme than what we got, but not much. Honestly, I’m so sick and tired of this mindset that seems to permeate Hollywood. At least these types haven’t gotten ahold of Marvel…yet.

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RidgeShark said:

Mielr said:

ChainsawAsh said:
The way Luke actually died. For no fucking reason. At all.

Not. Fucking. Cool. Rian.

My nephew and I were discussing this…why DID he die? Did he use up all his life force when he astral projected? I mean, WTF?

I’m sure Official Lucasfilm product holds some convoluted explanation, but the real reason he died is because of an agenda that is best explained by Kylo Ren - “Kill the Past” - Make Han and Luke abandon their responsibilities and have Leia be the only responsible one even though that whole narrative goes against everything we know about Luke and Han. Too bad Carrie Fisher’s poor life choices won’t allow that narrative to further play out. I feel bad for Mark, he actually took care of himself and wanted to deliver something the fans would love - and they gave him…this…

The movie is a bit like if Zac Snyder had made a Star Wars film - well not as extreme, but Johnson and Snyder are from the same school of thought. Can you imagine? Zac is all about deconstructing beloved characters and narratives the fans enjoy and turning all that “past” stuff on its head - “Kill the Past” - just like his DC films. It would’ve been a little more extreme than what we got, but not much. Honestly, I’m so sick and tired of this mindset that seems to permeate Hollywood. At least these types haven’t gotten ahold of Marvel…yet.