The Last Jedi: Legendary (Released) — Page 12

Sir Ridley said:

MalàStrana said:

Things happen between movies Adywan. Poe is right next to the girl who helped save his BB unit along with his new best pal Finn but he would wait until the ending of the next movie to say “oh, thanks by the way. Rey, right ?” Doesn’t make any sense. Not a huge continuity issue, but still it felt weird and forced at the end of TLJ.

In this specific case nothing could’ve happened between them between the movies. Maybe between scenes, but not necessarily. I see your point though.

Yeah, this is something the audience can assume happened off-camera. To me it just feels odd for two of our principal characters to introduce themselves to eachother for the first time after two full movies.

Tobar said:

It’s a nice moment but I’m in favor of cutting it. They were standing right by each other in the map scene and then the very next scene she’s wearing a new outfit, so time has passed. You’re telling me Poe wouldn’t seek out the girl that Finn just almost died trying to rescue? And to top it off he’s in the front of the crowd that sends off Rey as she leaves the base.

I understand that it’s something that Rian wanted to include to make up for one of Abrams many slips but it doesn’t make sense in context. It’s something that should have happened in TFA, even the novelization of TFA had them meet at this time:

“The map.” Rey could only stare in wonder as her eyes wandered over a shining, resplendent portrayal of a substantial portion of the galaxy. “It’s the whole map!”

“Artoo!” C-3PO’s tone was that of a proud relative complimenting a member of his family. “Artoo, you’ve done it!”

Cheers and spontaneous embraces filled the room with so much joy that no one paid any attention to who was hugging what representative of whichever species. Rey and Poe were not excluded, though their sudden, tight clinch of shared excitement led to a moment of mutual awkwardness.

“Uh, hi,” the pilot mumbled. “I’m Poe.”

She nodded slowly, searching his face and finding that she liked it. “I recognize the name. So you’re Poe. Poe Dameron, the X-wing pilot. I’m Rey.”

“I know.” He smiled back, a little more at ease. “Nice to meet you.”

Which is now non-canon and a really weird slip-up for the Story Group to make.

Huh, yeah, that is a bit weird. I wonder if the meeting could be edited into TFA instead.

Frink needs people to constantly introduce themselves to Poe. He always responds the same way “I know.”

Tobar said:

Which is now non-canon and a really weird slip-up for the Story Group to make.

I believe, per the story group, novelizations are only semi-canon.

I will say it’s one of a few weird things that JJ messed up for future installments by cutting out of TFA.

Just for the sake of continuing this tangent a LITTLE longer, in one of the original drafts for TFA, J.J. included a moment where Han Solo returns his dice to the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon. Rian wrote his script based on J.J.'s early treatments (as TFA was not filmed yet) and that’s why Han’s dice seem to suddenly become a plot point out of nowhere in TLJ. Turns out it’s actually not as random as some people think! Dang it, J.J.!

Which still makes me wonder about the 2 years production delay between trilogy entries under the rule of Disney. But TLJ is full of this little issues with items and characters out of the blue: the dice no one has never mentionned before, jedi books no one has never needed before (and certainly not Luke during the OT), an admiral that was nowhere to be seen the day before and who’s taking over the ops, Maz whose castle was destroyed a few days ago who can still be called by 3D phone and who’s in a situation we don’t get, Ren who needed to complete his training but who’s not doing so during the movie, Phasma who was left for dead and who betrayed the first order is now back in business, red guards that don’t react until the body they were supposed to guard is in two pieces, knights of Ren that seem to be something important in TFA and that are still not invited to join the fight (Ren has only almost killed, no hurry guys), Finn who becomes in a few hours a Resistance hero eveybody knows about, etc.

(that’s why I still don’t see the differences between Lucas and Disney on that matter anyway)

MalàStrana said:

red guards that don’t react until the body they were supposed to guard is in two pieces

I didn’t notice that until recently when I was editing the throne room scene. It gave me a pretty good laugh, haha.

They can’t see a thing in that helmet!

MalàStrana said:

Which still makes me wonder about the 2 years production delay between trilogy entries under the rule of Disney. But TLJ is full of this little issues with items and characters out of the blue: the dice no one has never mentionned before, jedi books no one has never needed before (and certainly not Luke during the OT), an admiral that was nowhere to be seen the day before and who’s taking over the ops, Maz whose castle was destroyed a few days ago who can still be called by 3D phone and who’s in a situation we don’t get, Ren who needed to complete his training but who’s not doing so during the movie, Phasma who was left for dead and who betrayed the first order is now back in business, red guards that don’t react until the body they were supposed to guard is in two pieces, knights of Ren that seem to be something important in TFA and that are still not invited to join the fight (Ren has only almost killed, no hurry guys), Finn who becomes in a few hours a Resistance hero eveybody knows about, etc.

(that’s why I still don’t see the differences between Lucas and Disney on that matter anyway)

A lot of it has to do with the time period between TFA and TLJ. TFA ended in a cliffhanger, meaning that TLJ had to answer it immediately. If there was somehow a timeskip between the two, a lot of the plot holes you brought up wouldn’t exist.

Not really. TESB ends with a cliffhanger and ROTJ happens several months later. It’s just awkward screenwriting which is the real issue. Doesn’t mean the movie is bad (I like it quite a bit), but doesn’t make it as great as any OT entry (or even ROTS i may add…) IMO.
But let us focus on the main topic here: Hal’s edit of this movie with the same paradigm used for his PT edits 😉

Not really comparable. If ESB ended with Leia in Boushh disguise walking up to frozen Han, then cut to credits, it’d be roughly analogous to the ending of TFA.

Yeah but it doesn’t, because they didn’t know what they were going to tell in the next movie, whereas Disney had a “master plan” that only was a blank page, so they decided to make things difficult and quite hard to solve for the next guy making the sequel for some reasons. Kennedy has failed quite a lot. Same issue with R1 and its inconsistent ending occuring a few minutes prior to ANH. McCallum was a bad producer for SW, so is Kennedy… without the density…

Not having these movies be tied down to some “master plan” is one of the smartest decisions they made. Worked for the OT, is working for the ST. PT tried the “master plan” and failed spectacularly.

Not that any of this has to do with Hal’s edit.

DominicCobb said:

Not having these movies be tied down to some “master plan” is one of the smartest decisions they made. Worked for the OT, is working for the ST. PT tried the “master plan” and failed spectacularly.

Not that any of this has to do with Hal’s edit.

The OT had one consistent plot that was made from day one. The ST is directionless and is written by whoever is in charge at the moment.

Zachary VIII said:

DominicCobb said:

Not having these movies be tied down to some “master plan” is one of the smartest decisions they made. Worked for the OT, is working for the ST. PT tried the “master plan” and failed spectacularly.

Not that any of this has to do with Hal’s edit.

The OT had one consistent plot that was made from day one.

That’s not even a little bit true.

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

Zachary VIII said:

DominicCobb said:

Not having these movies be tied down to some “master plan” is one of the smartest decisions they made. Worked for the OT, is working for the ST. PT tried the “master plan” and failed spectacularly.

Not that any of this has to do with Hal’s edit.

The OT had one consistent plot that was made from day one.

That’s not even a little bit true.

Yeah, but it sure as hell felt a lot more cohesive than the ST.

You say that as if it is more than just your personal opinion.

And if your naming things that went wrong with the PT, it’s overarching story plan is not one of them. It had a great overall story but was poorly executed.

What I’m saying is having an overarching plan didn’t make it any better, considering, like you said, it was poorly executed.

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

Zachary VIII said:

DominicCobb said:

Not having these movies be tied down to some “master plan” is one of the smartest decisions they made. Worked for the OT, is working for the ST. PT tried the “master plan” and failed spectacularly.

Not that any of this has to do with Hal’s edit.

The OT had one consistent plot that was made from day one.

That’s not even a little bit true.

Yeah, but it sure as hell felt a lot more cohesive than the ST.

You say that as if it is more than just your personal opinion.

And if your naming things that went wrong with the PT, it’s overarching story plan is not one of them. It had a great overall story but was poorly executed.

What I’m saying is having an overarching plan didn’t make it any better, considering, like you said, it was poorly executed.

First of all, I stated my opinion and am tired of putting IMO before everything I say. I like to assume that everyone is decent enough to understand that others can disagree.

Secondly, an overarching plan can help to make for a more consistent, and cohesive overall story. If the execution is there, it doesn’t matter. But the ST does have good execution. So I believe it would be even made better with an overarching plan. I love the Last Jedi so I am coming at this from the same angle as you.

See for me, if you love The Last Jedi, then that’s all you need to understand the importance of not having an overarching plan. Films need to stand on their own without merely setting up sequels. Filmmakers need to be able to tell what they think is the best story without having to worry about fitting it into someone else’s outline. It’s not as if having an overarching plan would’ve made for a TLJ that’s basically the same except without weird things like Poe meeting Rey. TLJ would’ve been completely different if not for the approach they took.

The PT didn’t have a master plan (that is even the main issue of the PT). The ST acts as if it had one, while having none, hence falling in the "many small issues that make quite a sum"side we were talking about a few messages ago.

So:

• PT: no master plan => should have had one !
• ST: no master plan => so why are you setting the movies as if there was one !

So Dom, things are exactly the opposite of what you describe.

MalàStrana said:

The PT didn’t have a master plan (that is even the main issue of the PT). The ST acts as if it had one, while having none, hence falling in the "many small issues that make quite a sum"side we were talking about a few messages ago.

So:

• PT: no master plan => should have had one !
• ST: no master plan => so why are you setting the movies as if there was one !

So Dom, things are exactly the opposite of what you describe.

I don’t know what you mean about “acting like it has one,” that doesn’t make any sense to me. As for the PT, it depends how define “master plan.” The films could certainly have stood to benefit if Lucas had planned things out more. But there was still a plan.