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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 201

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ray_afraid said:

I’d like to thank all of you on not jumping me when I said I haven’t seen this movie and don’t care to. I did that elsewhere earlier today and was immediately labeled “not a real fan”.
And that was the nicest thing I was called.
And, just like here, I made sure to announce that I’m not anti-anything or anyone or boycotting or whatever nonsense. Didn’t matter. I’m a “hater” and a “miserable person” apparently.

“Real fan” is a bullshit term. I think most here know that you can just like what you like and ignore the rest.

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Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Another thing is that even though both TLJ and TESB are the low points, try to compare the endings. TESB’s ending still seems more hopeful, even if only visually due to the room of the final scene being white and Luke and Leia wearing white, while looking at a beautiful space-y thing and awaiting for another adventure to save his friends.

One may argue that TLJ’s ending is even more hopeful due to the whole message that Luke was trying to pass on, and then broom boy showing the rebellion spreading, yadda yadda yadda, but in the end, for the characters it seems much more hopeless than TESB’s. Compare Luke’s last line spoken in TESB to Rey’s in TLJ.

“I’ll meet you at the rendezvous point in Tatooine. Chewie, I’ll be waiting for your signal. […]”
“How do we build a rebellion from this?”

Pay attention to their faces, to everything. Rey’s basically hopeless, holding a destroyed lightsaber in her hands, not knowing what to do. While Luke is hopeful, determined determined to rescue his friend, it’s under his control. And he’s fixing his hand, putting that behind him.

Obviously they’re different movies with different characters in different circumstances, but it’s just to show that you don’t have to apparently destroy all of the character’s “hopefulness” and will in order to put them in their low point.

Except Leia responds, which changes Rey’s expression. The movie doesn’t just end after Rey’s line.

Yes, but I didn’t get the feeling that Leia was very sure of herself and of the Resistance at that point. I got the idea of a mom that knows that they’re screwed but is trying to comfort a hopeless child. (And herself)

So it didn’t really convince me. But it’s not a problem I have with the movie, just an observation.

Leia is very sure of herself. This is the lady who saw her entire world (and people she knew and loved) blown to bits, she’s had much worse days than this.

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 (Edited)

ray_afraid said:

I’d like to thank all of you on not jumping me when I said I haven’t seen this movie and don’t care to. I did that elsewhere earlier today and was immediately labeled “not a real fan”.
And that was the nicest thing I was called.
And, just like here, I made sure to announce that I’m not anti-anything or anyone or boycotting or whatever nonsense. Didn’t matter. I’m a “hater” and a “miserable person” apparently.

Sorry to hear that. I’m growing to despise some elements of this fandom. Some people need to lose the Gaffi stick up their ass. Remember when Star Wars used to be fun?

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joefavs said:

The Cracked folks considered this a mark of effective movie-making rather than an egregious mistake, because audiences were swept up in the movie enough not to notice that flaw in the logic. That’s how I felt about all of these nitpicks about the in-universe rules of space travel in TLJ. I was engaged enough in the story that was in front of me that I was not giving any thought at all to whether or not it was 100% consistent with the last eight films (which, it’s worth noting, are not entirely consistent with each other either). I get that that’s not enough for everyone, but it’s enough for me.

Interesting, because I was the exact opposite. EVERYTHING was pulling me out of the movie. X-Wing skidding turns. Arcing shots from the cannons. The ridiculous size of the Snoke Ship. Finn/Rose just being able to lightspeed away for a casino adventure. “Fuel”. The hard-limit 18 hours of training. TIE Fighters needing “cover” from Star Destroyers.

Not to mention the really bad ones like the slow speed chase and hyperspace ramming.

So in almost every scene of the movie I had a knife twisting in my side about how bad this was and didn’t make sense. Makes it really hard to appreciate the good aspects.

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 (Edited)

Are you sure someone doesn’t have a voodoo doll of you? 😉

That was no skidding turn, that was real spacecraft physics. Babylon 5 had spacecraft turn on an axis to fire like that all the time.

Is there some limit to how big a spaceship can be I’m not aware of? Snoke’s ship didn’t seem that much larger than Vader’s Star Destroyer. Perhaps Snoke was compensating for something…

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I didn’t think this movie ever broke suspension of disbelief ever, personally. It seemed realistic in a sci-fi sense.

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SilverWook said:

Are you sure someone doesn’t have a voodoo doll of you? 😉

That was no skidding turn, that was real spacecraft physics. Babylon 5 had spacecraft turn on an axis to fire like that all the time.

Star Wars doesn’t have “real spacecraft physics”. Star Wars has always been “WWII in Space”. I’ve never seen a P-51 Mustang make a turn like that!

Is there some limit to how big a spaceship can be I’m not aware of? Snoke’s ship didn’t seem that much larger than Vader’s Star Destroyer. Perhaps Snoke was compensating for something…

The Death Star and the Executor are fine because they’re the culmination of the galaxy-ruling Empire’s power. Those ships are what infinite money and a firm grasp on all supply lines and independent contractors gets you. And they’re single ships. They have to construct a new Death Star when they want another.

But the rules of the Disney Trilogy are evidently “bigger ship every movie” despite whatever happened 18 hours ago in TFA. Starkiller was ridiculous. The First Order has infinite money. Infinite crew. Despite supposedly being a “fringe group” attempting to rise to power on the edge of the galaxy.

Remember that the visual dictionary says than Snoke’s Ship has a crew of TWO MILLION the next time a disney fan tries to convince you the First Order is “small” or resource constrained.

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My favorite part of the Dam Busters is when all the bombers leave German airspace by going to light speed.

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 (Edited)

KILLOFFPOE said:

Bombers leaving German Imperial airspace by “going to light speed”

You’re right I forgot that the ST invented hyperspace. More Disney unrealistic bullshit.

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Must be the image I posted. I re-hosted mine on imgur, but it’ll need to be edited out of that quoted message as well.

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You do realize Fuel has been mentioned visually in Star Wars and in actual dialogue in The Phantom Menace right?

I’ll be the first to say that the movie didn’t really do it for me but nitpicks are a bit too much at times.

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 (Edited)

KILLOFFPOE said:

SilverWook said:

Are you sure someone doesn’t have a voodoo doll of you? 😉

That was no skidding turn, that was real spacecraft physics. Babylon 5 had spacecraft turn on an axis to fire like that all the time.

Star Wars doesn’t have “real spacecraft physics”. Star Wars has always been “WWII in Space”. I’ve never seen a P-51 Mustang make a turn like that!

Is there some limit to how big a spaceship can be I’m not aware of? Snoke’s ship didn’t seem that much larger than Vader’s Star Destroyer. Perhaps Snoke was compensating for something…

The Death Star and the Executor are fine because they’re the culmination of the galaxy-ruling Empire’s power. Those ships are what infinite money and a firm grasp on all supply lines and independent contractors gets you. And they’re single ships. They have to construct a new Death Star when they want another.

But the rules of the Disney Trilogy are evidently “bigger ship every movie” despite whatever happened 18 hours ago in TFA. Starkiller was ridiculous. The First Order has infinite money. Infinite crew. Despite supposedly being a “fringe group” attempting to rise to power on the edge of the galaxy.

Remember that the visual dictionary says than Snoke’s Ship has a crew of TWO MILLION the next time a disney fan tries to convince you the First Order is “small” or resource constrained.

Pretty sure P-51’s defy physics in Lucas’ Red Tails movie. Spacecraft don’t make noise in a vacuum either. 😉

I don’t take much stock in what the visual dictionary says. Would you take what they imply about Snoke as gospel?

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lovelikewinter said:

For those of you who are questioning Luke’s actions- he’s suffering from severe depression. Depression can really fuck with you and speaking from experience you do stuff that’s not normal for you.

Yes, but the question is down to whether Luke Skywalker being depression-prone is tonally consistent with his character as established by the OT. Obviously anyone, even Luke, could succumb to depression, but that’s like saying Superman could feasibly get fat and bald. It’s possible, but does it feel right? Luke’s entire victory/arc in the OT was about his mastery of his emotions, his darker impulses. One could reasonably assume that such a person wouldn’t succumb to depression very easily. For a lot of fans, the leap from ‘eternal optimist and Jedi Knight’ to ‘defeated hobo’ is too jarring - not so much because of fan conservatism but because it doesn’t feel realistic in the context of what has gone before.

I’m not sure how I feel about it myself, but I do get why there’s a controversy here. (And by the way this post is in no way intended to trivialise yours or anyone’s experiences with these things.)

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“Fuel” or “repairs” is fine as a small throwaway-line plot guide. In both TPM and Empire it makes sense, a small ship on the run and being chased, finding a convenient port-of-call for supplies/repairs/whatever.

My issue in TLJ is that there are so many other ways the script could have been written so as to better-explain the slow-speed chase. I just really didn’t like the space chase as presented, and the fuel / hyperspace tracking read to me as obvious and blatant “because the plot requires it” explanations that the writers made up to get the characters in a certain situation.

I would have much preferred a convincing, cool, iconic, interesting, whatever set piece to get the characters into the same position. Make Snoke’s ship less gigantic, but able to stop lightspeed jumps. Put a spy on board. Show an engine being damaged in an attack. Have a single Star Destroyer chasing a single rebel ship, both unable to jump to lightspeed. Something interesting.

Anything like that would have been fine. The film instead explained the predicament via a few lines of bad exposition rather than give us any on-screen reason to believe this situation was occurring.

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SilverWook said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

SilverWook said:

Are you sure someone doesn’t have a voodoo doll of you? 😉

That was no skidding turn, that was real spacecraft physics. Babylon 5 had spacecraft turn on an axis to fire like that all the time.

Star Wars doesn’t have “real spacecraft physics”. Star Wars has always been “WWII in Space”. I’ve never seen a P-51 Mustang make a turn like that!

Is there some limit to how big a spaceship can be I’m not aware of? Snoke’s ship didn’t seem that much larger than Vader’s Star Destroyer. Perhaps Snoke was compensating for something…

The Death Star and the Executor are fine because they’re the culmination of the galaxy-ruling Empire’s power. Those ships are what infinite money and a firm grasp on all supply lines and independent contractors gets you. And they’re single ships. They have to construct a new Death Star when they want another.

But the rules of the Disney Trilogy are evidently “bigger ship every movie” despite whatever happened 18 hours ago in TFA. Starkiller was ridiculous. The First Order has infinite money. Infinite crew. Despite supposedly being a “fringe group” attempting to rise to power on the edge of the galaxy.

Remember that the visual dictionary says than Snoke’s Ship has a crew of TWO MILLION the next time a disney fan tries to convince you the First Order is “small” or resource constrained.

Pretty sure P-51’s defy physics in Lucas’ Red Tails movie. Spacecraft don’t make noise in a vacuum either. 😉

I don’t take much stock in what the visual dictionary says. Would you take what they imply about Snoke as gospel?

The two million passes the eye test too just based on how freaking overly huge that ship was.

And again, I don’t care about realistic physics at all. I just want the in-universe abilities to remain constant between movies. The X-Wing powerslide was the new Legolas skateboard.

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Last movie, someone here was harping on the Falcon’s wake over a body of water and now this.

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Speaking as someone who does have depressive tendencies, it actually meant kind of a lot to me to see Luke portrayed that way. This is one of the only times a hero of this saga hasn’t felt fundamentally outside of my own experience. Depressed Luke not only doesn’t feel incongruous to me, it feels incredibly meaningful.

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joefavs said:

Speaking as someone who does have depressive tendencies, it actually meant kind of a lot to me to see Luke portrayed that way. This is one of the only times a hero of this saga hasn’t felt fundamentally outside of my own experience. Depressed Luke not only doesn’t feel incongruous to me, it feels incredibly meaningful.

It feels real and human. I felt closer to the character than I did in the entire OT.

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KILLOFFPOE said:

SilverWook said:

KILLOFFPOE said:

SilverWook said:

Are you sure someone doesn’t have a voodoo doll of you? 😉

That was no skidding turn, that was real spacecraft physics. Babylon 5 had spacecraft turn on an axis to fire like that all the time.

Star Wars doesn’t have “real spacecraft physics”. Star Wars has always been “WWII in Space”. I’ve never seen a P-51 Mustang make a turn like that!

Is there some limit to how big a spaceship can be I’m not aware of? Snoke’s ship didn’t seem that much larger than Vader’s Star Destroyer. Perhaps Snoke was compensating for something…

The Death Star and the Executor are fine because they’re the culmination of the galaxy-ruling Empire’s power. Those ships are what infinite money and a firm grasp on all supply lines and independent contractors gets you. And they’re single ships. They have to construct a new Death Star when they want another.

But the rules of the Disney Trilogy are evidently “bigger ship every movie” despite whatever happened 18 hours ago in TFA. Starkiller was ridiculous. The First Order has infinite money. Infinite crew. Despite supposedly being a “fringe group” attempting to rise to power on the edge of the galaxy.

Remember that the visual dictionary says than Snoke’s Ship has a crew of TWO MILLION the next time a disney fan tries to convince you the First Order is “small” or resource constrained.

Pretty sure P-51’s defy physics in Lucas’ Red Tails movie. Spacecraft don’t make noise in a vacuum either. 😉

I don’t take much stock in what the visual dictionary says. Would you take what they imply about Snoke as gospel?

The two million passes the eye test too just based on how freaking overly huge that ship was.

And again, I don’t care about realistic physics at all. I just want the in-universe abilities to remain constant between movies. The X-Wing powerslide was the new Legolas skateboard.

What is obvious is that Snoke and the First Order are a continuation of the Empire. From the equipment they have and the developments they have made, it seem pretty clear that they have access to the designs of the Empire and the ability to manufacture equipment on the same scale. To me that means their home base is the location of one of the Empire’s manufacturing centers. Palpatine like to control everything so it is reasonable to assume that Snoke, given his very similar abilities and personality, could take over such a facility and keep it going. The ships are just an offshoot of the scale and designs of the old Empire. Snoke’s ship is huge, but it is no where near as large as the Death Star (and old Palpy had two of those built). And from the official descriptions of Snoke’s ship, it is not only a very large Star Destroyer, but a mobile space dock for building and repairing the smaller Star Destroyers. Compared to the two Death Stars and Starkiller base (which mechanically is less complex than either Death Star since it was built on an existing planetary body), Snoke’s ship is nothing.