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.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *) — Page 16

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My eyeballs are aching from watching ANH three times straight and marking down frame numbers to fix.
*yawn*
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Originally posted by: Laserman... we know how to get the best capture we can, and what gear to use...
OK, there's a big question in my mind, which I believe you may have already researched.

The X0 is clearly the supreme player, but it can only play NTSC discs. There are some reports here that the PAL discs offer better quality, however I don't think this is a proven fact yet.

So which combination gives the best overall result:
X0 + DC/Faces discs (the supreme player with lesser quality (?) transfers), or
2950 + French/German discs (respectable player with better quality (?) transfers)

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Can't one modify the X0 for PAL and NTSC playback?
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Laserman: that's dedication, man. Your drinks are on me.

Moth3r: PAL, in theory, is in many ways superior to NTSC. In fact, the only downside to it (IMO) is that films are sped up 4% from 24FPS to 25FPS which causes a pitch change (which I personally find annoying, but only when songs are being played). PAL has more resolution than NTSC and there is no 3:2 pulldown when telecine-ing film. HOWEVER, because laserdiscs are an analogue format, you need a lot of good hardware in order to get a nice, clean signal. This is what makes the X0 so unique. If you want more information about the X0 player, go to the official X0 website.

In any case, there is no known PAL laserdisc player with such incredible hardware and because of that, there is a lot more noise/artifacts/etc.

The first post in this thread was by Laserman and in it, he posted some pictures to show how clean the X0 NTSC signal was compared to the PAL (captured from a 925, which, according to him, is the best PAL player around). Just from those posts, you see that the NTSC, despite its flaws, has a much better picture. In this case, practicality outweighs theory.

Go see for yourself: http://www.mudgee.net/ot/

iRatanplan: modifying an X0 has been talked about already in this thread, and its subject almost caused the the project to be abandoned. The simple answer is No. The hardware is dedicated NTSC (from what I read on the website, it has 5 different NTSC encoders), and plus motors are different between pal and ntsc laserdisc players (they spin at different speeds). Let's not also forget that the X0 is a 7,000 dollar player. Who the hell would want to modify a 7000 dollar investment?

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Originally posted by: Mavimao
Moth3r: PAL, in theory, is in many ways superior to NTSC. In fact, the only downside to it (IMO) is that films are sped up 4% from 24FPS to 25FPS which causes a pitch change (which I personally find annoying, but only when songs are being played). It'd be very easy to make an NTSC DVD with an anamorphic picture from the PAL laserdiscs.
Originally posted by: Mavimao
PAL has more resolution than NTSC...
More lines, yes. But if the initial telecine transfer was filtered to the same extent as the NTSC discs (filtering is done to remove flicker on interlaced displays) then the extra resolution does not necessarily imply extra detail. This is unknown #1.

Originally posted by: Mavimao
The first post in this thread was by Laserman and in it, he posted some pictures to show how clean the X0 NTSC signal was compared to the PAL (captured from a 925, which, according to him, is the best PAL player around). Just from those posts, you see that the NTSC, despite its flaws, has a much better picture. In this case, practicality outweighs theory.

Go see for yourself: http://www.mudgee.net/ot/
That PAL capture was done by Karyudo, not Laserman. I don't believe it's conclusive. The artefacts in the PAL screenshot are a result of the outdated comb filter inside the D925, which cannot be bypassed even when using the composite out. The 2950 may or may not use it's internal comb filter when using the composite out - no one has been able to answer that yet. If it doesn't, then capturing from the composite with a PDI deluxe that contains a modern motion adaptive comb filter could yield better results. This is unknown #2.

I know I keep harping on about this, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong (I'm no video expert) but I strongly believe it's something that should be explored. (See the comments in my project thread for V2.0).

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I think the only way to get X0 like captures from PAL is to modify the PAL player and perhaps averaging several different captures.

First of all the comb filter needs to be disabled. And perhaps the laser needs to be replaced by one more similar to the X0 laser. But to achieve this, there probably are more modification necessarily.

A new release of Star Wars is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
I know I keep harping on about this, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong (I'm no video expert) but I strongly believe it's something that should be explored.

Originally posted by: Wer-Al_Zwowe
I think the only way to get X0 like captures from PAL is to modify the PAL player and perhaps averaging several different captures.

First of all the comb filter needs to be disabled. And perhaps the laser needs to be replaced by one more similar to the X0 laser. But to achieve this, there probably are more modification necessarily.


I don't want to say too much at this point, but the possibility of getting X0-like quality out of PAL is being explored.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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*off topic* cheers for the t shirt guys it arrived today

Egon "Don't Cross the streams it would be very bad"

Peter "i'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing"

Egon "lmagine the 97 Star Wars Special Editions"
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Glad you liked it.

Thanks for being our very first donor.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Glad you liked it.

Thanks for being our very first donor.


Geez MBJ- I'm donating as fast as I can but that's a big cup you sent me to fill...
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This is my official apology to Moth3r for being such a damn slacker when it comes to making comparison caps of both the NTSC and PAL discs on my D925. I swear it will happen! Just if you saw the rest of my "real life" schedule these days, you might see why it's taking a while. I've got at least one big other project to work on that shoves the comparisons down the list a bit.

That, and I'm lazy.
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This project sounds amazing! I will be donating in the near future.

Laserman: I was at C3.
"You were so preoccupied with whether or not you could...you never stopped to think if you should." - Ian Malcolm, Jurassic Park
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I am really stoked about what y'all are doing... this may be pretty newbie of me, but here is a logo I came up with for your collection.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b262/Coov/x0project.jpg

Cheers!

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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Zion,

It was me, G-force that you met in the Minneapolis airport. I still wear my T-shirt all the time, and is quite a conversation piece.

-G
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coov, that logo ROCKS!

"I still wear my T-shirt all the time,"

g-force, you *are* allowed to take it off and wash it once in a while.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Coov: I am Floored! This is so pro looking!
X0 team: Your dedication to this project is nothing short of phenomenal! as soon as my c-card isnt loaded anymore , i am donating for sure!

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How can I get one of those shirts?
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We are working on a new batch. The first batch was a rush job for C3.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Send Zion an e-mail via the x0project.com website if you are interested in shirts.
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Watch the skies, there will be another screenshot in the next 48hours.
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I just donated a few bucks. But paypal won't send it until my bank transfered the money to paypal, so stay tuned

But I wonder how much one should donate. Okay, I already done it, but I'm curious
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Ok, I've been following X0 and a bunch of threads here for awhile now.

What I would love to see is a comparison of the different versions that will be created from X0.
As I understand it there will be discs from MeBeJedi, Zion, and Laserman (?) all from the X0 capture.

What will the differences be and is it worth you all working separately from the same source instead of continuing to collarborate through to the finished product?

Dr. M

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First and foremost, all four of us will be working together on the official X0 version of the films. Whether that ever sees the light of day is still up in the air (since obviously we can't distribute it legally). Once that is done, I think Mebe and I will start working on our own versions. I can't tell you what the differences will be because at this early stage we honestly don't know.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]