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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 153

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Frank your Majesty said:

SilverWook said:

Because either Rey’s parents were on that departing ship or they’re dead and buried on Jakku. It can’t be both.
And Kylo can’t be trusted.

I already asked this, but are we really sure we see Rey’s parents leave in that ship? Maybe it was just a random ship and Rey imagined her parents were in there, because that would make it easier for her.

Given Rey’s response to Ben, it’s clear that Rey has maintained a myth about her parents in her mind. Why can’t she have manufactured a memory? Not that unrealistic. Indeed, there are still Star Wars fans who maintain that Luke’s first go at the grappling hook missed when SW first hit theaters.

But doesn’t the vision show things that actually happened? I mean, besides Rey being at Cloud City and elsewhere, and besides Kylo Ren having his mask on during the forest battle, and besides Rey’s parents ship flying into the Starkiller Base sucking up the sun.

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Mrebo said:

Valheru_84 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Valheru_84 said:

the lone ship flying in a straight line (like in a trench)

Hahaha, I’m almost willing to concede that you have a point (I don’t really care about this kind of stuff, I like TFA and it’s much more obvious about it) but this is ridiculous.

What’s ridiculous? Think about it a bit more Frink. I’m not saying that flying in a straight line equates to flying in a trench but why is he flying directly into the beam of this weapon about to fire? He can see parts of his ship are melting and at the rate witnessed you would not expect the ship to survive even reaching the weapon, yet he doesn’t move out of the beam to fly alongside it and still aim to crash into the centre of the weapon. He’s not weaving at all to avoid enemy fire from the walkers or TIEs (which is oddly and conveniently missing at this stage). For some odd reason he’s locked into this straight path directly towards the opening of the weapon, much like the exhaust port on the Death Star, so for all intensive purposes he might as well be traveling down a trench.

Totally unrealistic and lacking in sense? Absolutely. If the nearly impenetrable door is being melted hundreds of meters away, it is total idiocy to be in the beam for a long period of time close up. But I chalk that up to dramatic effect.

While it is possible they had the DS trench in mind, it is also possible they did not. There’s really nothing to argue except that it is possible. I think it is very different, and more akin to Randy Quaid flying into a spaceship or the Hulk flying into a portal. It’s a trope we see in many different movies.

I agree that at first I had attributed the scene to that same particular trope but after looking at it in a new light of realisation I am sure this is Luke’s final trench run recycled for this scene, or at least parts of it and the Falcon coming to the rescue out of no where. We just needed Rey to shout over the radio “You’re all clear Finn. Now let’s blow this thing and go home!” and there would be no doubt about it 😉

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DominicCobb said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Frank your Majesty said:

SilverWook said:

Because either Rey’s parents were on that departing ship or they’re dead and buried on Jakku. It can’t be both.
And Kylo can’t be trusted.

I already asked this, but are we really sure we see Rey’s parents leave in that ship? Maybe it was just a random ship and Rey imagined her parents were in there, because that would make it easier for her.

Given Rey’s response to Ben, it’s clear that Rey has maintained a myth about her parents in her mind. Why can’t she have manufactured a memory? Not that unrealistic. Indeed, there are still Star Wars fans who maintain that Luke’s first go at the grappling hook missed when SW first hit theaters.

But doesn’t the vision show things that actually happened? I mean, besides Rey being at Cloud City and elsewhere, and besides Kylo Ren having his mask on during the forest battle, and besides Rey’s parents ship flying into the Starkiller Base sucking up the sun.

I know you’re not being totally serious, but the ship flying away and Rey crying could be real. It might have been a real ship and Rey cried because she really believed her parents were on it. Maybe that was the point where she started to invent these memories.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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I figured the vision just showed important events from the past that would have or already had a great impact on Rey.

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Frank your Majesty said:

DominicCobb said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Frank your Majesty said:

SilverWook said:

Because either Rey’s parents were on that departing ship or they’re dead and buried on Jakku. It can’t be both.
And Kylo can’t be trusted.

I already asked this, but are we really sure we see Rey’s parents leave in that ship? Maybe it was just a random ship and Rey imagined her parents were in there, because that would make it easier for her.

Given Rey’s response to Ben, it’s clear that Rey has maintained a myth about her parents in her mind. Why can’t she have manufactured a memory? Not that unrealistic. Indeed, there are still Star Wars fans who maintain that Luke’s first go at the grappling hook missed when SW first hit theaters.

But doesn’t the vision show things that actually happened? I mean, besides Rey being at Cloud City and elsewhere, and besides Kylo Ren having his mask on during the forest battle, and besides Rey’s parents ship flying into the Starkiller Base sucking up the sun.

I know you’re not being totally serious, but the ship flying away and Rey crying could be real. It might have been a real ship and Rey cried because she really believed her parents were on it. Maybe that was the point where she started to invent these memories.

I do believe that moment was real, actually. But I think it’s open to interpretation.

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I feel like I’m part of the small amount of people that hated the writing in TFA. It’s just horrible.


**😮ver&out:
**mumbles

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Valheru_84 said:

The TIE fighters being there and Millenium Falcon dropping in out of no where (with accompanying “WOOO!” except it’s not Han saying it this time) to save the lone ship flying in a straight line (like in a trench) as the last hope in destroying “old Death Star tech” just before it fires on the Rebel base, is an element taken straight out of ANH and mixed into the recycled TESB battle of Hoth.

Valheru_84 said:

I agree that at first I had attributed the scene to that same particular trope but after looking at it in a new light of realisation I am sure this is Luke’s final trench run recycled for this scene, or at least parts of it and the Falcon coming to the rescue out of no where. We just needed Rey to shout over the radio “You’re all clear Finn. Now let’s blow this thing and go home!” and there would be no doubt about it 😉

Except this doesn’t happen in the film. The Falcon appears and draws the fighters off long before the weapon even starts firing and Finn does his Kamikaze run. The speeders are flying in all directions to evade the TIE’s when the Falcon appears.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Frank your Majesty said:

SilverWook said:

Because either Rey’s parents were on that departing ship or they’re dead and buried on Jakku. It can’t be both.
And Kylo can’t be trusted.

I already asked this, but are we really sure we see Rey’s parents leave in that ship? Maybe it was just a random ship and Rey imagined her parents were in there, because that would make it easier for her.

Given Rey’s response to Ben, it’s clear that Rey has maintained a myth about her parents in her mind. Why can’t she have manufactured a memory? Not that unrealistic. Indeed, there are still Star Wars fans who maintain that Luke’s first go at the grappling hook missed when SW first hit theaters.

It’s not unreasonable to think that Rey ran off looking for her parents as a child, and she just assumed they were on one of the ships docked in Nima Outpost. Did she actually see them get onboard or is just a scene where she ran off some time after being dumped there?

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mumbles_ said:

I feel like I’m part of the small amount of people that hated the writing in TFA. It’s just horrible.

Wrong thread.

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That sequence where the Falcon draws off the fighters was a highlight of TLJ for me. Not just for the superb visuals but for the music. Great to hear Williams reprise of the OG Falcon vs Ties piece! Loved it.

We’ve heard many of the themes return, and someone might correct me, but I don’t recall hearing that particular music in any of the other SW movies till that perfect moment in TLJ.

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The superstructure chase in ROTJ would be the one other time.

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Matt.F said:

That sequence where the Falcon draws off the fighters was a highlight of TLJ for me. Not just for the superb visuals but for the music. Great to hear Williams reprise of the OG Falcon vs Ties piece! Loved it.

Ah just another way that TLJ tiredly rehashes the OT…

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TLJ was such an Empire rip-off! I mean, it even has a crawl!

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snooker said:

TLJ was such an Empire rip-off! I mean, it even has a crawl!

Yeah but how many dots at the end? That’s how you can really tell.

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TV’s Frink said:

snooker said:

TLJ was such an Empire rip-off! I mean, it even has a crawl!

Yeah but how many dots at the end? That’s how you can really tell.

The four dots really bothered me.

The blue elephant in the room.

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adywan said:

Valheru_84 said:

The TIE fighters being there and Millenium Falcon dropping in out of no where (with accompanying “WOOO!” except it’s not Han saying it this time) to save the lone ship flying in a straight line (like in a trench) as the last hope in destroying “old Death Star tech” just before it fires on the Rebel base, is an element taken straight out of ANH and mixed into the recycled TESB battle of Hoth.

Valheru_84 said:

I agree that at first I had attributed the scene to that same particular trope but after looking at it in a new light of realisation I am sure this is Luke’s final trench run recycled for this scene, or at least parts of it and the Falcon coming to the rescue out of no where. We just needed Rey to shout over the radio “You’re all clear Finn. Now let’s blow this thing and go home!” and there would be no doubt about it 😉

Except this doesn’t happen in the film. The Falcon appears and draws the fighters off long before the weapon even starts firing and Finn does his Kamikaze run. The speeders are flying in all directions to evade the TIE’s when the Falcon appears.

My memory is a bit dim on the TIEs themselves so I’ll take your word on it but even that aside I’m still certain it’s the trench run / Falcon save repurposed to an extent.

chyron8472 said:

Valheru_84 said:

for all intensive purposes he might as well be traveling down a trench.

for all intents* and purposes.

Cheers, not sure why I always hear “intensive purposes” when someone says that which I’ve then repeated here without even realising it.

DominicCobb said:

The superstructure chase in ROTJ would be the one other time.

This comment just made me realise the chase through the red crystal caves in TLJ is the ROTJ superstructure chase scene recycled, complete with TIEs smashing into parts of the cave / superstructure and the Falcon bursting back outside through a shower of smashed crystals, much like the Falcon bursting back out into space through a fireball as the second Death Star is about to explode.

Unbelievable. The more you look into TLJ, the more you realise how unoriginal it is in so many aspects. While I thought TFA took it a bit far in recreating many ANH beats, I was able to pretty much accept it as a way to safely re-establish the franchise and set the tone and aesthetic of the new trilogy. Overall I enjoyed the movie and having got that out of the way with new story arcs set in motion and plenty of questions to be answered, I was expecting TLJ to be the movie that diverged from the safe rehashed / formulaic approach and cover new ground but that still took its roots from the previous movie. It’s anything but that though - there are new characters, ships and planets but the TFA roots have been discarded and replaced with essentially the same old story of the Rebellion vs the Empire with a Hero’s journey that ultimately must face of against their dark side nemesis, all while recycling as many parts from the 3 OT films as they can.

Having seen TLJ though, I now understand it could never be what I was expecting and that’s because RJ has a compulsion with this movie to do the exact opposite of what is expected. It was a pretty common belief that everyone was expecting TLJ to be the movie that was going to be different, darker and setting new ground after the safe bet that TFA was. So in order to do the opposite he just made another rehash movie (simply disguised a bit better by jumbling it up a bit with the edges blurred) which is what everyone didn’t want. Even the darker themes are subverted by the constant stream of tone killing humour. This movie is literally RJ giving the middle finger to a fandom and it’s expectations, making writing choices solely directed at doing the opposite of what the fandom wanted or expected, no matter the cost to the story and cohesion to the overarching saga and previously established characters and lore.

.Val

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Hey, even George admitted the Speeder Bike chase in ROTJ was just the Death Star Trench with trees you can run into. :p

How many different ways can you have two spaceships chase each other?

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Where were you in '77?

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Star Wars movie is like other Star Wars movie in superficial ways… tricky RJ thought he could get away with it, but he was sorely mistaken! True Fans know that the only way to judge a movie is on a scale of perceived originality.

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I often wonder about when an idea or story beat goes from being similar to something done decades earlier, to when it becomes directly appropriated from it. In the case of ROTJ I would argue the similarities are more superficial, since there are shared locations like Tatooine and a Death Star, but what they do with those places is entirely different.

Contrast this to the sequel trilogy, which quite clearly contains many scenes that are similar not only on a superficial level, but directly reference earlier plot points, sometimes with similar events and even dialogue, all to elicit an emotional reaction like: “OMG DO YOU REMEMBER THAT SCENE WHERE ___ HAPPENED IN EPISODE ___?! THEY JUST REFERENCED IT OMG!! OMG!!!” Meanwhile I’m like “I’d rather watch the original version of that scene instead of someone else’s version that doesn’t do anything new”. And that’s just it: I want them to do something different that doesn’t rely on events that already happened. To do otherwise is IMO a poor attempt at fan-service, and just incredibly lazy writing in general. I get it’s hard to come up with ideas in Hollywood films that differ from something else done 40-50 years ago, but please don’t also bring attention and make a big deal of the fact that you are “borrowing” the idea in the first place.

Star Wars isn’t the only franchise with this problem BTW.